Is There A Difference In Health ?

[Guest greytful4]

I know cancer ,seizures and strokes seem to take most of our beloved hounds...but I was wondering if there is much of a difference in the health or genetics of of AKC vs. the racers?

[ahicks51]

I'll cover the pending discussion by covering the possibilities:

 

Yes!

 

No!

 

Maybe!

 

I'm sure that will help a great deal.

[greypuppyluv]

I PM'd GT member Elaine since I believe she's done research in this area. Hopefully she'll be able to answer your questions.

[Guest Energy11]

A good friend had an AKC Greyhound. She died of cancer ... So, it is a "crap shoot" on those questions. Maybe something to run past Dr. Couto and his team.

[macoduck]

Dr Couto did touch on that at Mountain Hounds and yes, there was a higher incidence in cancers, IIRC.

[Guest greytful4]

Dr Couto did touch on that at Mountain Hounds and yes, there was a higher incidence in cancers, IIRC.

 

 

 

Did he have any theories as to why? I want so badly to get another houndie at some point,but I go back and forth on this.

[CaliforniaGreys]

Dr Couto did touch on that at Mountain Hounds and yes, there was a higher incidence in cancers, IIRC.

 

We are lucky enough to have a vet at our practice here who comes from OSU and worked with Dr C. She said the same thing.

[Guest Spencers_Greyt]

Dr Couto did touch on that at Mountain Hounds and yes, there was a higher incidence in cancers, IIRC.

 

 

 

Did he have any theories as to why? I want so badly to get another houndie at some point,but I go back and forth on this.

 

As another member said, it's a crap-shoot. Any dog of any breed can have problems with cancer and other illnesses. I don't think you should let it weigh on your decision to get another houndie, NGA or AKC.

[Batmom]

Not sure anyone can make a statistically valid comparison. There are very few AKC greyhounds.

[macoduck]

Not sure anyone can make a statistically valid comparison. There are very few AKC greyhounds.

I just looked at my very messy notes from his talk. In the data they had collected, no AKC greys had bone tumors and he noted there are very few AKC greys. In racing greys, 5000 will develop bone tumors this year. But he went on to say that greyhounds have "3 legs and a spare."

 

 

Perhaps not the best analogy, but many of my mammogram patients tell me they put off getting the exam for fear of the results, even when no one in the family has cancer. I tell them with any disease process you can add up the risk factors and worry yourself sick, but get the exam (and other suggested tests) routinely. Don't live in fear.

 

While the statistic Dr Couto gave struck fear in my heart, it will not keep me from adopting another. I lost one to lymphoma, one to stroke. I thought I was losing one last weekend but didn't (unexplained mystery ailment).

 

Other dog breeds can have medical conditions that lessen their length or quality of life. A mixed breed is a complete unknown.

No matter what pet you get in the future, it loves you for you and it does not fear it's future.

[Guest Energy11]

I Sent DH to Dr. Couto's Lecture at Mt. Hounds, as I needed REST, and he had never met him... He is not "medical, "... but, I am glad he went!

[Hubcitypam]

I left Elaine a message -- hopefully she'll weigh in soon. She has had quite a few of each.

[sweetdogs]

I guess my view is that I want to focus on their time with me & not how they'll leave me. There are no guarantees with any breed or any individual. But I know it was so unfair that you had nowhere near enough time with Kylie.

[Guest Elaine]

Not sure anyone can make a statistically valid comparison. There are very few AKC greyhounds.

In the data they had collected, no AKC greys had bone tumors and he noted there are very few AKC greys. In racing greys, 5000 will develop bone tumors this year. But he went on to say that greyhounds have "3 legs and a spare."

 

Other dog breeds can have medical conditions that lessen their length or quality of life. A mixed breed is a complete unknown.

No matter what pet you get in the future, it loves you for you and it does not fear it's future.

 

First off, there are AKC bred greyhounds which have died from bone cancers and hemangiosarcomas and other cancers. They are not bone cancer free. However, it is difficult to say how prevalent the disease is as many breeders will not discuss health issues in their lines. They won't even discuss them with other breeders. So, as someone stated, it is difficult (if not impossible) to present any accurate statistical information re: AKC greyhounds.

 

I have had greyhounds from both registries for many years now. Out of the 15 or so greyhounds, which have graced my home, only one has died from bone cancer - Mimbar. He was an "oops" pup from a brother / sister breeding. In addition, he was castrated way too young, leading to very long legs. Some research indicates that prepubatal castration can increase the chances of getting bone cancers. So... who knows why he contracted the disease. There are hypotheses out there that connect bone cancers with microfractures sustained while racing and/or other environmental things. They really don't have any idea as to why it develops.

 

To me, it appears that some lines of NGA dogs seem to be more prone to bone cancers than others. One such line descends from Cactus Lonesome through Oshkosh Champ and Oshkosh Racey. Does this mean that all dogs from this line have the disease? No. However, it bothered me enough that I try to avoid dogs with this line prevalent in their pedigrees.

 

BTW, there is a borzoi with which I am familiar. I've been told that Borzoi have a fairly high incidence of bone cancers. He was at a lure course and broke his leg. They rushed him to the vet. X-rays showed a shadow, which appeared to be bone cancer, and his owners opted to remove the leg. The dog is still alive, 3 years later. They caught it early before metastasis. It was a most fortunate break for him.

 

All purebred dogs have some health issues. Greyhounds, in general, are healthier than most. It is said that about 50% of Irish Wolfhounds die from bone cancer.

 

Elaine @ DM Greyhounds

http://www.dmgreyhounds.net

 

 

[Tallgreydogmom]

I think I remember that there are two main carriers of the cancer gene in the greyhound pedigree. I remember one of them. I'm not sure I should mention it here. Most of the greyhounds I know that have passed from cancer had this male in their pedigree.

 

Does anyone else remember reading about this? I think it came up in the Circle of Grey many years ago.

[ahicks51]

All purebred dogs have some health issues. Greyhounds, in general, are healthier than most. It is said that about 50% of Irish Wolfhounds die from bone cancer.

 

[anti-carbohydrate whacko nutjob helmet on]

 

You know, in order to keep some of these big-boned dogs from going bonkers on growth, some advocate low-protein food to keep the monster breeds from growing too fast. There's only so much substitution with fat that one can do, so much of the bulk ends up being... grains.

 

[anti-carbohydrate whacko nutjob helmet off]

[Guest greytful4]

Not sure anyone can make a statistically valid comparison. There are very few AKC greyhounds.

In the data they had collected, no AKC greys had bone tumors and he noted there are very few AKC greys. In racing greys, 5000 will develop bone tumors this year. But he went on to say that greyhounds have "3 legs and a spare."

 

Other dog breeds can have medical conditions that lessen their length or quality of life. A mixed breed is a complete unknown.

No matter what pet you get in the future, it loves you for you and it does not fear it's future.

 

First off, there are AKC bred greyhounds which have died from bone cancers and hemangiosarcomas and other cancers. They are not bone cancer free. However, it is difficult to say how prevalent the disease is as many breeders will not discuss health issues in their lines. They won't even discuss them with other breeders. So, as someone stated, it is difficult (if not impossible) to present any accurate statistical information re: AKC greyhounds.

 

I have had greyhounds from both registries for many years now. Out of the 15 or so greyhounds, which have graced my home, only one has died from bone cancer - Mimbar. He was an "oops" pup from a brother / sister breeding. In addition, he was castrated way too young, leading to very long legs. Some research indicates that prepubatal castration can increase the chances of getting bone cancers. So... who knows why he contracted the disease. There are hypotheses out there that connect bone cancers with microfractures sustained while racing and/or other environmental things. They really don't have any idea as to why it develops.

 

To me, it appears that some lines of NGA dogs seem to be more prone to bone cancers than others. One such line descends from Cactus Lonesome through Oshkosh Champ and Oshkosh Racey. Does this mean that all dogs from this line have the disease? No. However, it bothered me enough that I try to avoid dogs with this line prevalent in their pedigrees.

 

BTW, there is a borzoi with which I am familiar. I've been told that Borzoi have a fairly high incidence of bone cancers. He was at a lure course and broke his leg. They rushed him to the vet. X-rays showed a shadow, which appeared to be bone cancer, and his owners opted to remove the leg. The dog is still alive, 3 years later. They caught it early before metastasis. It was a most fortunate break for him.

 

All purebred dogs have some health issues. Greyhounds, in general, are healthier than most. It is said that about 50% of Irish Wolfhounds die from bone cancer.

 

Elaine @ DM Greyhounds

http://www.dmgreyhounds.net

 

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to comment on this. I used to breed Abyssinian cats and I know a lot of those lines had Renal amloiydosis,but some breeders kept breeding those lines because those cats had that "typey look". I know each breed of whatever has certain genetic components that become prevalent based on certain bloodlines. It never occured to me that the greys could be so prone to cancer. I definitely DO NOT regret having had my sweet girl though!

[Guest Vinnie]

Hi Anne -

 

Thought I would add my 2 cents in for what its worth. Elaine is right with what she says about akc breeders - most will not talk about any illness or disease in their line. Vinnie ended up being in two studies - both Dr. Cuoto's and and akc study on osteo. Because he was so very young, we were lucky that many in his line were still alive and the breeder provided blood for both studies from his relatives and we provided from Vinnie. Hopefully this will eventually help them and we can get rid of this awful and evil disease. Another reason is the quantity of greys from NGA vs AKC - there are so few akc puppies born or registered each year so the statistics will be skewed (sp). On a side note - Vinnie is the only one in his line that has had cancer. He is also the youngest in both studies (or at least he was the last time we got info) to be diagnosed and for going to the Bridge.

 

With that said - I would not hesitate to get another grey if you find one or if Kylie sends you one. I can honestly say that we were kind of nervous about bringing Gracie home since she is Vinnie's sister however we don't regret it for one minute. Even after she gave me heart failure about an hour ago when she came in yipping and limping on the same leg as her brother - and today of all days. But she is settled down now and laying beside me and my heart has started beating normally again.

 

I hope you let another into your heart. I am sure that Kylie is up there scheming with Vinnie to send you just the right one. Yes cancer is evil, but it can be beat. Hugs.

[GeorgeofNE]

I just heard Dr. Couto speak for two hours. He said that osteo is virtually unheard of in AKC Greyhounds, and they don't really know why, but they're looking at genetics now.

 

Think about it; a show dog used for stud maybe sires a few litters. My dog's sire has produced aboutu 6,000 puppies, so far, because his sperm is sold all over the country.

 

Be a serious issue if it turned out he was a carrier of a gene that predisposes a dog to bone cancer, wouldn't it?

 

 

[Guest Tuxsmom]

how much lobbying power do we or the public have to pursuade the breeders to take this into consideration IF lines are identified. I know there are many ethical breeders out there... I hope they can push on their peers to follow suit if we ever have the power of this knowledge.

 

NOT intending to start trouble. Just sayin.... :

[Batmom]

I just heard Dr. Couto speak for two hours. He said that osteo is virtually unheard of in AKC Greyhounds

 

But it isn't unheard of in AKC greyhounds. There are a couple of examples right here in this thread.

 

ETA: Not posting that to be a shrew or a schmoo. More on the order of pointing out, you have a large-breed dog, you're going to have some bone cancer. So far nothing I've read indicates with any degree of certainty that greyhounds get it more often than other large-breed dogs. Greyhounds *are* easier to study, because of their relatively well-known backgrounds and pedigrees.

[greypuppyluv]

I just heard Dr. Couto speak for two hours. He said that osteo is virtually unheard of in AKC Greyhounds

 

But it isn't unheard of in AKC greyhounds. There are a couple of examples right here in this thread.

 

ETA: Not posting that to be a shrew or a schmoo. More on the order of pointing out, you have a large-breed dog, you're going to have some bone cancer. So far nothing I've read indicates with any degree of certainty that greyhounds get it more often than other large-breed dogs. Greyhounds *are* easier to study, because of their relatively well-known backgrounds and pedigrees.

My friend's first greyhound was AKC and she lost him to bone cancer. She lost his mother to something entirely different. I think you're going to hear about it more in NGA greys since their numbers are so much higher than the AKC greys.

[jenn8]

Dr Couto did touch on that at Mountain Hounds and yes, there was a higher incidence in cancers, IIRC.

 

We are lucky enough to have a vet at our practice here who comes from OSU and worked with Dr C. She said the same thing.

 

Two of the vets in my area who have treated many greyhounds also said the same thing. This was based on their own experience over the years.

 

Jenn

 

[Guest greytful4]

How closely bred are they then? Like I brought up in an earlier post, Abyssinian cats have a relatively small gene pool with a high incidence of amloiydosis and patella luxation, so it's difficult to find really healthy bloodlines. Is the gene pool small in the greys as well?

[ahicks51]

How closely bred are they then? Like I brought up in an earlier post, Abyssinian cats have a relatively small gene pool with a high incidence of amloiydosis and patella luxation, so it's difficult to find really healthy bloodlines. Is the gene pool small in the greys as well?

 

NGA greys are a bit weird in that one male may sire many litters; Molotov has 7,666 offspring. Some have more. Molotov has 14,837 second generation offspring. One animal can have a huge impact in the age of liquid nitrogen.

 

At the same time, due to breeding records, diligent breeders can make very careful choices to reduce the chances of genes being unduly "preserved," i.e.: line breeding or inbreeding, both of which are used intentionally to conserve genes- presumably by NGA'ers as well as in the AKC realm- although hopefully very rarely if at all.

 

Last I checked, there were 165 NGAs registered for every AKC greyhound that was registered. That speaks to a relatively small gene pool; we could argue about numbers, but any way one cuts it, 20,000 animals is likely to have a larger, healthier gene pool than 1/165th that.

 

Fortunately, in terms of "conserving" breeds, we're now on the cusp of a virtual revolution in genetics. Whether the efforts of a few, hard-core breed aficionados can thwart the determined efforts of a world full of nitwits who think they can pay the mortgage on their BYB efforts is unknown. But it would seem likely that more genetic tests will come to bear in terms of selecting the best animals for perpetuation of specific breeds. Those that are still truly "working" breeds like the NGA greyhound are at an advantage over those that are purely decorative.