New Greyhound, Minor Sa - Adjustment Period

[GreyhoundGuru87]

Good Afternoon, All!

 

I am new to this forum, and a new Greyhound Parent. I adopted my Grey about 4 weeks ago and I will start by saying he is a very GOOD dog. He has been very easy to walk, have in the house, etc. He enjoys sleeping, and playing with a few squeak toys here and there. He has seemingly welcomed both me and my husband into his life very well. Upon arrival, we did everything “by the book” as far as welcoming him, letting him explore, practicing leaving, etc. All was seeming to go pretty well, until Week 2 (this is where I am seeking thoughts / advice).

 

Previous to living with my husband and I, he was with a foster (around 3 weeks) and was crated in the day, not at night. The foster said she crated while at work, but did have other Greys (we only have the 1). In effort to keep things the same, we crated as well in the beginning. By day 3, it was clear that he had developed Separation Anxiety and would scream and howl when we left and start pawing at the cage / Chewing at his bedding. My husband and I setup a webcam, and we could see him get progressively more upset, until he finally maneuvered his way out of his crate and was free. Upon being free, he seemed to do okay. So, this leads to week 3… we decided rather than crate, we would baby gate off an area in our home and let him have more space to roam. Same thing happened, he got upset and would cry, then jumped the baby gate and was free to roam the entire house.

 

Following him escaping and jumping the gate, we attempted to let him have free-roam of the house (main floor and upstairs). At first, that was appearing to work and he never destroyed anything (chewing, etc.) in the house. My husband and I thought, “well, maybe he just doesn’t want to be cooped up.” Although, he still voluntarily goes into his crate and doesn’t have any hesitance when entering, or exiting. Last week, unfortunately he started to pee on the rug in the living room. He was always more of a “crate trained” dog than a “house trained” dog so we knew this was a risk going in when letting him have free roam. I cleaned the pee up with Natures Miracle and we trekked on a few more days. By week end, he was peeing one time every day (different spots on the rug) every time we left him alone. He NEVER has accidents when we are not home, and had never soiled in his crate.

 

Now, this leads me to the question(s)…

1. Since his arrival, his anxiousness when we leave and come back has dramatically improved – do you think his SA has subsided just from us sticking to a routine and him getting more used to us?
2. The adoption agency recommends that we try to crate him again (with reinforcements on the latches) until he learns he cannot pee in the house when we are gone. Their opinion is that since its only happening when we are gone, he isn’t learning not to and it will continue.
3. How long do you typically crate with a new dog? My previous dogs (not Greys) were never really crated, so this is new to me.

 

Here is a snapshot of the day routine:

• 5:30 – 6:15 He gets exercised (walk/jog) and typically relieves himself 2-3 times during the walk
• 7:15 – 7:20 He gets his morning food
• 8:00 – He gets taken outside again to relieve himself one more time in the AM
• 8:15 – Administer Melatonin with Peanut Butter and Crate Him, Turn a Radio On
• 8:30 – I leave for the day for work
• 4:15 – Husband returns home from work and walks him / potty
• 5:30 (or earlier) – I am home from work and we all hang out, etc.
• 6:30 PM – 7:00 PM Second Feeding
• 9:30 – 10:00 PM One more Potty Break (there may be one in between this time and his feeding if he has to go)

 

Thank you very much for any thoughts, advice or comments. We are wondering if this is pretty normal for the first few weeks and if there is anything else we can try to do to help him through the transition. Lastly, if there are thoughts as to whether or not he is just not a dog that can be alone (i.e. needs to be rehomed to a house with other Greys, or people home all of the time).

Edited October 30, 2017 by GreyhoundGuru87

[locket]

First off, 4 weeks is nothing, it took us 3 months to eliminate my first hound's SA. So there is hope in your future

Second, I wouldn't put him in the crate again if he doesn't like that, he might hurt himself trying to get out again.

You could check that there isn't anything medically wrong with him (UTI?)

Then you can put a belly band on when you are leaving. If he pees, he will immediately feel it and there you have the training. Some dogs won't even go with a belly band because they don't feel naked.

Could you switch the morning run? If you wake up, quick pee break, then feed, allow an hour to digest and then go for a long walk, he might empty himself more. Give him plenty of opportunities to go to the bathroom. I know that when I run with mine, he doesn't go as much as he should because he is busy keeping up and not sniffing around. That being said, it is very good for him to go running as you likely tired him before leaving, which is good!

Do you know if he is drinking a lot during the day? The peanut butter could make him thirsty, then he drinks lots when you leave and he has to pee? Maybe try giving him melatonin in a small block of cheese or something and see if it makes any difference?

 

Maybe he REALLY has to go. Can one of you come back for lunch and let him out? Or have someone come by?

Now to answer your questions:

 

1. YES, routine is very important to them! My first hound, we kept the same schedule (including week-ends) of leaving and coming back for about a month and that made a huge difference. Along with a DAP diffuser.

2. If he got out once, he knows he can and will try to come out again, which could lead to injuries.

3. The longest I have crated is about 9 hours. It is long. And the dog must be comfortable in his crate. That being said, I don't think it is your solution here.

[GreyhoundGuru87]

Hello Sr. Grey Lover! Thank you for your response -- please see my response(s) below:

 

First off, 4 weeks is nothing, it took us 3 months to eliminate my first hound's SA. So there is hope in your future This is good news! We were not sure what a "realistic" time-frame is as this is our first adopted dog (our previous dogs were puppies when we got them).

Second, I wouldn't put him in the crate again if he doesn't like that, he might hurt himself trying to get out again. Thanks for that insight. I would agree. The adoption agency felt like we just need to reinforce the crate positively and latch the handles better so that if he tries to escape, he doesn't "win" and learns he cannot get his way every time. With that, do you think it was that he doesn't like his crate? Or, that when he escaped it was due to being overall anxious in a new place (he did this within the first few days of getting him). He goes into his crate and loves it when we are home, and he doesn't mind being locked up in there when we have done test runs.

You could check that there isn't anything medically wrong with him (UTI?) We did check on this, he is healthy - no issues there.

Then you can put a belly band on when you are leaving. If he pees, he will immediately feel it and there you have the training. Some dogs won't even go with a belly band because they don't feel naked. We tried the belly band, it did not give us much promise as he got it off -- I tried a few other ways but he is quite a houdini. The band did not stop him from soiling on the rug.

Could you switch the morning run? If you wake up, quick pee break, then feed, allow an hour to digest and then go for a long walk, he might empty himself more. Give him plenty of opportunities to go to the bathroom. I know that when I run with mine, he doesn't go as much as he should because he is busy keeping up and not sniffing around. That being said, it is very good for him to go running as you likely tired him before leaving, which is good! I should have noted in my first post, the run is in the morning (between 5:45 - 6:15 AM), always at least an hour before we feed and then I walk him a shorter distance again before leaving for the day.

Do you know if he is drinking a lot during the day? The peanut butter could make him thirsty, then he drinks lots when you leave and he has to pee? Maybe try giving him melatonin in a small block of cheese or something and see if it makes any difference? Per the recommendation from the group we adopted him from, he was getting minimal water during the day when gone so this should not be the issue.

Maybe he REALLY has to go. Can one of you come back for lunch and let him out? Or have someone come by? Unfortunately, this would not be an option as we both work 20+ minutes from home and we just moved to a new development and do not know our neighbors well yet.

Now to answer your questions:

1. YES, routine is very important to them! My first hound, we kept the same schedule (including week-ends) of leaving and coming back for about a month and that made a huge difference. Along with a DAP diffuser. Where did you purchase your DAP Diffuser? I have heard of these and unsure how / where to get them.

2. If he got out once, he knows he can and will try to come out again, which could lead to injuries. What is strange is that he escaped but then appeared to want to go back in his crate (seen via webcam), but he had locked himself out. The whole instance was very stressful for him. When we got home, we re-opened is crate and he went in there voluntarily and slept....

3. The longest I have crated is about 9 hours. It is long. And the dog must be comfortable in his crate. That being said, I don't think it is your solution here.

Lastly, I want to say THANK YOU for the great information. As we said, we are open to any ideas and thoughts. We don't want to give up on him, and we feel like if he can learn to be "okay" and handle himself when we are gone - we will be okay. As far as the crate goes, I am hesitant to try it again; however, I cannot have him peeing in my house daily. Is there anything we can do to ensure he will accept the crate as his "comfortable place?"

Edited October 30, 2017 by GreyhoundGuru87

[locket]

Throwing ideas out there. Can you block off access to the living? I still close the doors to the rooms I don't want my dogs in, and Charlie has been with me for over a year. They have no problem with it, they basically stay in my living and kitchen while I am gone. Can he see the door you walk out of from his crate? Sometimes it helps if they see.

DAP can be found on amazon or at the vet (no prescription needed) it might or might not work, it depends on the dog. It is not a miracle, but does help a bit in my experience.

You can make the crate his safe place by giving him all kind of treats in it, feeding him inside etc.

I'm sure others can have different ideas!

[greysmom]

DAP is Dog Appeasing Pheromone, and it's the same substance a puppy will pick up from his mother to calm and reassure him. You can get it in a diffuse you plug into an outlet fro whole room coverage, a collar for very directed application, and also as a spray for a generalized application. You can usually get it anywhere that sells dog supplies, including Amazon.

 

The melatonin may or may not be helping. You can also add/substitute L-theanine if you want to try another OTC product with proven results. If his issues continue or if they escalate into destructive behavior, you should discuss a short course of anti anxiety medication while you continue to work to desensitize him to being alone. It doesn't mean he will need them forever. All the meds do is put his brain in a state where it can accept re-training, which is why continuing your alone training and strict routine are a must.

 

You mentioned you "practice leaving" with him when he first got there. Alone Training usually needs a good consciencious run when you have a dog who exhibits SA symptoms. The trick is to not just leave and come back. Do your whole leaving routine, and actually leave. THEN you need to return *before* he becomes anxious. Even if you only leave for a few seconds at first. Then extend the time gradually longer and longer, until he's able to remain calm the whole time you're gone. If at any time he gets upset, you should go back a step and start again from there. You can search the forum here for "alone training" for more tips and step by step instructions.

 

I would not use the crate again for leaving. Being in the crate when you're going to be alone, and choosing to go in whenever you want are two completely separate behaviors. And, IMO, if he's not destructive in general, he probably doesn't need the crate anyway. Baby gate him into an area where he's comfortable, and hopefully easily cleanable. Puppy pads can help save your carpet as long as he hits the marks all the time. If never heard of a dog getting out of the belly band, but there's always a first time!!! You can try using baby diapers that tape together around his waist too.

 

And just in general, none of his behaviors are that unusual, but you do want to deal with his SA sooner rather than later. Keep his schedule consistent, and keep wroking with him to build up his tolerance to being alone. He does not sound like a dog who *must* be with other dogs to be comfortable. He just needs some time and patience to get through this.

 

Good luck!

Edited October 31, 2017 by greysmom

[KickReturn]

I wish only to emphasize a single point. Please do not crate this dog again. A dog in a crate surrounded by other dogs (as at track, foster home, etc) is entirely different that a dog in a crate alone. The most likely outcome is that your dog will permanently damage his teeth or cause himself some other serious injury is you crate him again. A lack of crate is not the problem, and the use of the crate is not the solution. He is anxious. 8 hours is a long time for a dog to be alone that has never been alone before.

[BatterseaBrindl]

Excellent advice given

Four weeks is not very long and Yes!....continue with the alone training.

 

[GreyhoundGuru87]

Hi All,

 

I would like to say thank you for the advice. We opted to use a taller baby gate (since the previous one was too short and didn't really work) in the laundry / common area. From this location in the home, he can see us come and go, but also serves as a "den" all on it's own. We did setup his crate, but left it for him to choose whether or not he wanted to lay in it throughout the day.

 

We are on Day 3 with this new steup and things are dramatically improving. He actually jumps into his crate and is waiting for his treat when it's time for me to leave. I have not heard any cries when I leave, or when my husband arrives home. He appears happy, but not overly anxious or hard-breathing, etc. when we return at the end of the day. He has also not soiled in this space. I think he is starting to feel (1) a little more at home and (2) trusting that we always come back. Hopefully this is the beginning of some positive progress as his Separation Anxiety has definitely appeared to lessen. I know it's early and things take time, but I do think this is a good direction to be heading.

 

Thanks again!

Edited November 1, 2017 by GreyhoundGuru87

[locket]

That is great! Some hounds are anxious with too much freedom all at once! Fingers crossed things keeps going well

[GeorgeofNE]

No one seems to have mentioned HOUSEBREAKING.

 

I agree, no more crate. But you need to double down on the housebreaking. Your schedule looks good. Are you throwing a little happy party when he goes?

 

And cleaning--how are you dealing with the accidents?

 

My first hound COULD NOT deal with being confined in any way (and he was an active racer for nearly three years) once he was retired. Enough is enough he said! Once I got rid of the crate entirely, his anxiety eased considerably!

[GreyhoundGuru87]

Hey All! I just wanted to reach out and say thanks for all of your help when we first adopted. Our boy is doing very well and he has taken into the retired life quite well. We did find out that he had a VERY minor UTI in the beginning (even though initially he had tested negative) which seemed to be contributing the the initial SA. Overall, though - we have worked through it and he appears to understand that we always come back

Edited March 27, 2018 by GreyhoundGuru87

[macoduck]

Great update! Thanks for letting us know about your success.