Weak Or Arthritic?

[XTRAWLD]

Since I have some experience with LS in Kasey, I'm now beginning to see the signs in Ryder. I'm curious if his back legs are getting weak or if he's getting arthritis or both? He's started to grunt a lot, which he never really used to do. It's one of those old age, sink into the bed comfy moans I presume, but this is a new thing. Happens in the middle of the night when I don't hear him stirring either. I'm not familiar with how to identify arthritis. He shows no pain if I manipulate his joints - but alas he is a stoic greyhound.

 

How do I tell the difference between his legs being weak vs his legs being in pain? He's often fallen up the stairs (I had to help him up them yesterday one paw at a time). In addition I've noticed that it seems like one of his back legs falls asleep after lying on it in the wrong position/too long as he sort of stiffens his leg and is careful to use it for the first 30-45 seconds after getting up - but I gather this could also be pain?

 

He's on Gabapentin twice a day, 300 mg each dosing due to disc bulges in his neck which have brought him a new lease on life and is approaching his first double digit birthday in October. I wonder if I should bump it to 400x2? Do I start visiting the idea of Metacam etc.? Thoughts?

[RaineysMom]

I know Gabapentin only has a life of about 8 hours so dosing every 8 hours might help more. Our Larry (also with LS and neck issues) is on 100mg 3 x day, for now. Also on 3.75 mg of Meloxicam. ? I'm not sure about 300 mg every 8, I'd check with your vet first....

[XTRAWLD]

I know Gabapentin only has a life of about 8 hours so dosing every 8 hours might help more. Our Larry (also with LS and neck issues) is on 100mg 3 x day, for now. Also on 3.75 mg of Meloxicam. ? I'm not sure about 300 mg every 8, I'd check with your vet first....

I agree that dosing more often is more beneficial than spacing them out for longer durations. He's currently set for every 12 hours. Something to think about for sure....

[GeorgeofNE]

My understanding is that gabapentin is a very specific drug--only works on nerve pain. As we age, we get (typically) lots of aches and pains, but those aren't necessarily nerve pains.

 

If he has no underlying health issues, and the blood work looks good, I am sure an NSAID would work in conjunction with what he already takes!

 

My George had LS and he took both Deramaxx and gabapentin, and it seemed to help him. And his #1 symptom was falling UP the stairs.

[XTRAWLD]

My understanding is that gabapentin is a very specific drug--only works on nerve pain. As we age, we get (typically) lots of aches and pains, but those aren't necessarily nerve pains.

 

If he has no underlying health issues, and the blood work looks good, I am sure an NSAID would work in conjunction with what he already takes!

 

My George had LS and he took both Deramaxx and gabapentin, and it seemed to help him. And his #1 symptom was falling UP the stairs.

This is a promising thought. Thank you! Do you happen to recall the dosage amount of each? Also, how long was he on these meds as a combination?

Edited July 25, 2017 by XTRAWLD

[cleptogrey]

both of my guys are pretty arthritic. i do both metacam and adequan injections. talk to your vet about the adequan, no side effects as w/ the metacam. the adequan injections lasts 4-6 months for annie and 3+ months for felix.it is a PITA starting them off, 6 injections 3-4 days apart, then a booster a month later. then wait and see when they need another booster.

 

as to the metacam i started w/ daily dosages for 2 weeks and watched and waited until felix was at full performance. then i tried every other day, every 3 days and saw what worked the best. it varies according to both the weather and when he's due for another adequan injection.

[XTRAWLD]

Since going an NSAID route might be hard on the GI - other than bloodwork checking, and dosing with food, should I be popping him a Pepcid 30 mins before as a preventative or is that a bad idea because it will make it less effective or something?

[ramonaghan]

Since going an NSAID route might be hard on the GI - other than bloodwork checking, and dosing with food, should I be popping him a Pepcid 30 mins before as a preventative or is that a bad idea because it will make it less effective or something?

 

I always give Sweep a 10mg Pepcid (though I think 20mg is fine for greyhounds) 30-60 minutes before she eats and gets her Previcox. Speaking of which, she's been taking that off and on for at least 18 months now, and bloodwork two weeks ago was perfect! She'll be 8 in October. Every dog is different, but I hope that gives you some reassurance about adding NSAIDs to the mix. Her wonky toe is incredibly stiff from her old injury + arthritis, and a Previcox every other day keeps her walking normally and doing stairs comfortably. (ETA: Like cleptogrey, our dosing schedule varies with weather and activity; she had several weeks late last fall where she didn't need anything at all.) Scritches and best wishes to Ryder!

Edited July 25, 2017 by ramonaghan

[GeorgeofNE]

NSAIDs never bothered any dog I've had.

 

George got 200 MG gabapentin 2x a day, and I think it was only 75 mg of Deramaxx, but honestly, he's been gone for several years now and I can't swear to it.

 

I think the single most helpful thing his doctor said was to make sure he got regular exercise, and keep his weight down. We leash walked, and I felt it really helped him to go up and down hills--it's critical to maintain muscle mass to support weak joints. The weight should be obvious!

 

George was tough as nails. I think he could have lost 3 legs and still wanted to go walking.

[smurfette]

Does he still have the reflexes in his knees when he is laying down?

Andy lost them in both legs due to a bulging disc in his spine. He is on a daily dose of metacam.

When it is arthritis you could try msm. It is a very strong anti-oxidant and highly anti-inflammatory and therefor helps with the pain. No side effects because it is organic other than diarrhea if overdosed.

[XTRAWLD]

Does he still have the reflexes in his knees when he is laying down?

Andy lost them in both legs due to a bulging disc in his spine. He is on a daily dose of metacam.

When it is arthritis you could try msm. It is a very strong anti-oxidant and highly anti-inflammatory and therefor helps with the pain. No side effects because it is organic other than diarrhea if overdosed.

Hmmm, I believe he does. He had a knock test in January when he was laying down at the vet, although that's was a few months ago. I'll give it a whirl and see.

 

He's already on MSM 400g among other good things in a well rounded supplement powder, I agree that it's a critical addition to an aging houndie diet.

[GeorgeofNE]

It's interesting to me that vets are still pushing "supplements" for joints.

 

Because human orthopedics do not believe they work on people. I never saw any results with either of my dogs I tried them on, one had major surgery on his ACL and severe arthritis. It did jack squat for him. Also did nothing for George.

 

I ask my orthopedic surgeon all the time, "should I try XYZ?" and he always laughs and says only if I want the manufacturer to have my money.

 

All of my joints and my connective tissues are weak and failing, and not a single doctor has suggested that I take anything other than my medication.

 

Your mileage may vary.

[XTRAWLD]

We're now on Metacam. First dose was with dinner. How long does this stuff take to work? I read 2 days? Because I gave him Metacam for dinner I decided to space out and give him his Gaba before bed. When I would give him Gaba at dinner he was usually strong enough to get up to go for our last pee break, but tonight he is having trouble getting up. So I think giving him Gaba later than usual and hoping Metacam would kick in just made him really uncomfortable tonight. Vet said I can give Gaba and Metacam together but I guess I was just hoping the Metacam would help tonight.

[cleptogrey]

it takes 1 to 2 weeks of full dosages to really see a big difference. but some difference can be observed in just a couple of days. make sure you dose exactly what his weight is. i was told that since felix is on it long term that i can play with the dosages. he needs the full amount and he can go to every other day if the weather is cooperative. i tried reduced dosages, a waste of metacam.

 

the MSM dose needs to be higher, the same as humans, 1500mg. the initial starting dose on dasuquin is 1800 mg.

Edited August 23, 2017 by cleptogrey

[XTRAWLD]

I have read about an increased initial dose for Metacam but I wasn't told to do that. I guess we'll just wait and see if it works. Going out for our walk to see if he's had any adverse reactions.

[cleptogrey]

The first couple of weeks of metacam were not increased. They were felix' s weight. Then I tried every other day,every 3 days. Every other day worked. Then my vet suggested trying a reduced dosage. It was not effective.

 

Then once I had a brainfart and forgot that I dosed him in the morning, he was in pain and I was on day 3 or 4. So, I gave him a dose at night. I freaked, but according to what I quick read on the internet lots of people seem to also have brainfart or their spouses do the additional dose.