Roo Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 What's the shortest amount of time a seizure can last? Internet says they can be a few seconds to a few minutes, but I can't find anything conclusive about just how quickly they can be over. Terrier Daisy has struggled to get off her bed before, but this morning she sat up, then flopped on her side, her head went way back, and she kicked her legs a bit, then in two seconds it was over and she did a ton of lip licking and needed quite a bit of comforting. A few minutes later, she was fine. I touched her to steady her, as I usually do when she's having trouble getting up, but she didn't seem to notice my hand (usually she startles when you touch her). Worried mom brain says it could have been a seizure, but I've never seen a seizure in person and I've never seen Daisy have one, so the more logical side of my brain is saying she probably was just trying to get up. But it still looked different than usual - less like she was struggling to right herself, and more like she was just...struggling. (Her head usually goes forward and she tries to pull herself up, this time her head was angled back.) I reached for my phone to film and by the time I had my phone, she was still. A few seconds later, she got up and started licking her lips like crazy. I thought she was going to throw up, but she just leaned into me for comfort pets. If it wasn't for the weird lip licking, I'd be able to convince myself that she was just having trouble getting up, but lots of lip licking has never followed her having trouble getting up, so I don't know. (I sound like the wife on Airplane - "Jim never has a second cup of coffee at home!" ) For reference, she's 13, has a grade 4 or 5 heart murmur, three mast cell tumors, a new probable hemangiosarcoma on her belly, and is on palliative care for all of the above (the vet said if she was her dog, at the rate she's popping up new growths and with her heart the way it is, she wouldn't put her through surgery, and I trust our vet). We tried Meloxicam for arthritis and she handled it well until we added Benadryl for the MCTs. Her poops got runny, so we stopped the Meloxicam. Poops were a little better, then she stopped eating for a few days, so I stopped the Benadryl too and she's finally starting to eat again (yay!). She got her Heartgard yesterday. She's never had a problem with it in the past (been on it almost a year now) and I always give it to her right after she eats, so she always has something in her tummy (I'm a big believer in taking drugs with food in your stomach, whether you're human or not ). She's been coughing more recently, a few fairly short fits throughout the day yesterday and today, and a coughing fit while we took our afternoon stroll yesterday. She can't walk far anymore (a few months ago we walked a mile a day, then it was half a mile, now we go down the street and back and it totals well under .25). Anyway, how quickly can a seizure be over? Can they really just last two seconds? Quote Mom of bridge babies Regis and Dusty. Wrote a book about shelter dogs! I sell things on Etsy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Without the leg kicking it could have been a simple postural hypotension change event (fainting). Was the kicking organised or just random and were there other signs like rolling eyes? Seizures can be quite short but will often involve voiding. I think you have to ask your vet to be definite. Yes I know how worrying it is ot being sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 It does sound like it could have been a minor seizure. You can ask your vet, but at this point I am pretty sure they will just say, watch and see if it happens again. I would make a note of the time/day/details, so if you need to track something you will have the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryJane Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 It could be a seizure especially since you are describing the lip licking/drooling that can typically occur with a seizure. I suppose it could also be described as a neurological event - maybe a slight blockage of one of her brain vessels. Make sure you note the date and time it occurred as well as general notes about what happened. Sometimes the legs hyper-extend without the kicking and could also involve a hunched position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramonaghan Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Not to be an alarmist, but has her heart been checked recently? Between the murmur and the coughing fits I'd be worried about congestive heart failure, which can cause very brief fainting spells. I just lost a cat to this last week, so that's where my mind immediately went. Quote Rachel with littermates Doolin and Willa, boss cat Tootie, and feline squatters Crumpet and Fezziwig. Missing gentlemen kitties Mud, Henry, and Richard and our beautiful, feisty, silly Sweep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTRAWLD Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Well that's certainly scary to see. Without the leg kicking it could have been a simple postural hypotension change event (fainting). Was the kicking organised or just random and were there other signs like rolling eyes? This makes complete sense though, it wasn't a fainting spell and likely a seizure? Keep an eye out and IF you are able to, video it for future. Quote Proudly owned by:10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 201012.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) They weren't really big kicks and were more like little kicks, if that makes sense? I don't know. They definitely weren't her usual "kick legs to get up" kicks, and it didn't look like she had any control over it. I suppose it could have been a fainting spell, but her eyes looked off, too, so I don't know. I'm saying that a lot. But I really don't know - it was so quick! Could there be lots of lip licking after a fainting spell? I've only fainted once, but I remember feeling nauseous before and afterwards, so I guess that could have been it. Either way, seizure or fainting spell, still not great. Not to be an alarmist, but has her heart been checked recently? Between the murmur and the coughing fits I'd be worried about congestive heart failure, which can cause very brief fainting spells. I just lost a cat to this last week, so that's where my mind immediately went. I'm sorry about your kitty We've been monitoring her heart since I got her a little over a year ago. She definitely does have an enlarged heart, and that's where the coughing comes from. Her murmur has gone from a 2 to a 4 or 5 (depending on the day and who's listening) since I got her. With her recent exercise intolerance and increased coughing, I am a little worried that she's crossed the line from heart disease into CHF. Her last vet visit where they listened to her heart was probably about a month ago, and she said she didn't hear any sounds of fluid around the lungs, but also suggested starting her on heart meds. If the coughing keeps up, I'll take her in next week, but I've been running to the vet a lot lately (between my geriatric rat and my geriatric rat terrier, I'm there all the time - glad they're only 3 minutes away!) and the vet really stresses her out, so I try not to go unless it's absolutely necessary (coughing more often for a prolonged period of time would definitely make it necessary!). I know part of me is also avoiding it (not in denial, exactly, just...hoping a vet visit won't be necessary) because if she does have CHF, there aren't many options for us. I can't pill her, and it's not that I'm unwilling - just that I literally can't (I'm not the only one who's tried, either - no one can pill her!). She can't be force-pilled - restraining her sends her into a panic, she nips and struggles and flails and bolts and won't come near me again for the rest of the day. If you do succeed in getting a pill down her throat, she gags it up, even if you hold her mouth closed and gently massage her throat to encourage swallowing. She can't be tricked with food - she either just won't take it, or she'll set it on the ground and nibble the pill out, regardless of what food I try or whether I offer her something bigger and better after she has the food with the pill in her mouth. I can't afford to compound every drug she needs, plus she doesn't let me hug her without struggling anymore, since hugs preceded drugs, so getting that many syringes into her mouth one at a time just won't happen. I could probably overcome my own dislike of needles to give her shots, but I can't imagine restraining and sticking her would go any better than trying to restrain and pill her. She's...difficult. Adorable, but difficult. She won't eat peanut butter anymore since I tried to hide a pill in it one time a few months ago. I've tried PB, canned cat food, yogurt, meat, low-sodium lunch meat, pill pockets, cheese - nothing works. So if she does have CHF and her symptoms are getting worse and happening more often... When I got her, I thought I'd have her a couple months and give her a good end of life out of the shelter. I didn't let myself get too attached until she'd been with me 6 months. Now I've had her a year and a half and she's (sneakily) stolen my heart. (She looks perpetually unimpressed in photos ) Edited May 12, 2017 by Roo Quote Mom of bridge babies Regis and Dusty. Wrote a book about shelter dogs! I sell things on Etsy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramonaghan Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Daisy is precious and full of attitude! Bless you for taking her in. I totally understand about the pills. Henry was a sweet, tolerant boy, but even he quickly tired of six pills a day and started fighting them. I hope you and Daisy have lots more time together. Quote Rachel with littermates Doolin and Willa, boss cat Tootie, and feline squatters Crumpet and Fezziwig. Missing gentlemen kitties Mud, Henry, and Richard and our beautiful, feisty, silly Sweep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 That is a great picture! I understand about the pills, I have two elderly cats that are the same. Luckily the current meds they need are in powder or liquid and can be added to their food, and they eat it! Pill form, forget it. You do what you can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greysmom Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I'm voting for seizure. It could have been going on for longer prior to her trying to get up that you didn't notice. Definitely mention it to your vet and keep track of any further unexplained events. It *could* have been a stroke or neurological "thing" associated with any of her previous issues, though without the ability to give her medication it might not make a difference. Quote Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora) siggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 I'm voting for seizure. It could have been going on for longer prior to her trying to get up that you didn't notice. This is a good point - I hadn't thought of it! I bet there was more to it that I missed. She's been fine the rest of the day and even ate most of her dinner. She still seems a little more tired than usual, but otherwise she's acting like her sassy grandmotherly self. Quote Mom of bridge babies Regis and Dusty. Wrote a book about shelter dogs! I sell things on Etsy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenEveBaz Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 She looks and sounds adorable, and is having a wonderful life with you. (Except for the bears.) Quote Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 She just had another 'event'. She was doing a little coughing (as is typical for her in the evenings), so I reached down and lifted her off her side (sometimes it helps). While I was holding her, she started twitching - skin, ears, eyelids, little head shakes, weird eye movement - then licked her lips like crazy, just like the last time. And just like the last time, it was over before I could get my camera. Lip licking, then she was back to normal. It looked just like the videos I've seen of partial focal seizures. Is it possible it was some sort of other neurological thing that was triggered by the coughing, maybe lack of oxygen to the brain? I don't know anything about this so I'm grasping at straws! Either way, probably not a great symptom. I wrote down the date and time of this one. Quote Mom of bridge babies Regis and Dusty. Wrote a book about shelter dogs! I sell things on Etsy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTRAWLD Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Well now that she has had another event, its more likely your eyes were not deceiving you the first time. Must have been crazy tho happening in your arms Quote Proudly owned by:10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 201012.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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