Incontinence In Older Dog - Help Needed

[Guest Bob32392]

Hello friends,

I hope you are all well. Several years ago this community was wonderful in its support of our efforts to keep our space aggressive greyhound, Joe, while also having a young child in the house. (Old thread here.) Almost six years and one more kid later, Joe is happily still with our family. It has been a long and winding road, but (knock on wood) there have been no incidents and he will be ten years old in July!

I am writing because we are about to visit the vet again to address his recently developed incontinence and I want to be as informed as possible. I have done quite a bit of research online (including this forum) about possible causes but wanted to reach out for any tips or recommendations about our specific situation.

Generally, we have not noticed any changes in behavior other than the incontinence. No weight loss, lethargy (other than normal), and no excessive drinking. He has definitely aged over the last year and slowed down quite a bit; he has trouble going up and down stairs because of arthritis. All his test results/check ups came back normal in February. The vet said he was probably just getting older (he's nine); might have doggie arthritis which makes it difficult to get up in time; or he could have some kind of cognitive/Alzheimer's-type issue where he just doesn't care where he pees.

Here is a breakdown of how this has progressed:

-In late January/Early Feb. Joe started to consistently have accidents in the house - mostly urine - and at night. When he had to go, he would bark in the middle of the night, and we would get up and walk him. Not ideal, but workable. Knowing older dogs can't hold it like they used to, we figured we weren't walking him enough (4-5 times a day).

-Over the next few weeks, he stopped barking and would just pee in the house - sometimes nightly. He occasionally pooped in the house as well. We kept thinking maybe it was our fault (we weren't walking him enough or late/early enough), but also knew he had never done this before. We continued to assume old age. He was getting about 7-8 (!!!) walks a day at this point. At this time, most of the accidents were in at night. Note: We do/did try letting him out in the yard but he just stands there and doesn't do much - he only goes to the bathroom on his walks and in the house.

-In late February, he peed on his bed. He would never want to do that and we thought there might be a real problem. This is when we took him to the vet

-In March, it continued to get worse. He started to pee in the house during the day - even after short periods of time and our dogwalker started to encounter messes. (He got a dental during this month and they did testing in preparation and everything came back okay .)

--Currently (April), it has gotten progressively worse. He is peeing multiple times at night and during the day. We walk him during every free moment and have the dogwalker come as much as we can afford while we are gone during the day. Now, if we leave the house for even an hour, he pees in his room. Even after multiple walks. Even when we are home with him all day.

We are meeting with the vet (again) this week. Please let me know if you can recommend any tests to ask for or questions to ask him/her. If you have any experience with this or inclination of what might be wrong, we would also appreciate your input. If it's hormonal he might need meds and while I have read plenty about hormone treatment for females, I've seen less about males. There is also the possibility he simply has decided he wants to go in the house (we don't get angry or upset with him) and it might be easier for him. I feel like this is less of a possibility because he is going to the bathroom where he eats and sleeps - which I think he would prefer not to do.

Thank you again for any comments or suggestions.

[XTRAWLD]

Awh. I have no experience with this, but I'm sure others will chime in. It's so sad to see them age. The only thing I would ask is if they tested for a UTI? It's a long shot but you mentioned he had lots of tests so just curious.

[Guest Bob32392]

Yes, thanks. Everything was normal, including UTI/thyroid, etc.

[GeorgeofNE]

This is NOT normal in any way, shape, or form. Yes, nine is on the older side of things, but it's not typical that a 9 year old dog just can't hold it any more.

 

I'd have them run a urine culture. But if he's also pooping in the house, they may need to look further.

[macoduck]

I'd re-test for UTI again, including specific gravity.

General info on kidney stuff here: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2114&aid=350

 

Is your vet familiar with the differences in greyhound lab values?

More info on greyhounds here: http://www.greythealth.com/index.html

 

That's a lot of walking and perhaps he is drinking more water because of that. If he really had to go he would do so when you let him in your backyard. Is it fenced to he can roam around it?

 

Does he pee in the same place in the house, in addition to his bed? Could you put some pee pads down and direct him there if he can't hold it in the house?

[MaryJane]

Get a first morning urine and have them check the specific gravity - that will indicate whether he is concentrating his urine. Have them culture the urine (must be a clean catch) as sometimes a bacteria will grow and it is not easily see in the microscopic.

 

Check the Protein % of the dog food that you are feeding. Sometimes as dogs age, they can not handle the amount of protein they did earlier in life. You can try a low protein (20%) dog food for a few weeks and see if it makes a difference.

[Guest Bob32392]

Thanks for your comments. The appointment is today; it's gotten so bad that I think something has to be wrong. He cannot hold it anymore and goes in the house all the time. He is otherwise fine. I will update this thread with any information in hopes it helps folks in the future. On the other hand, he has had a clean bill of health in the last month so I'm not sure what else they will find. Any other suggestions in the meantime are welcome.

[GeorgeofNE]

Bob, I would INSIST on antibiotics regardless of what they find.

 

These are classic UTI symptoms.

[tbhounds]

How is his water intake?

[Guest Bob32392]

Update:

 

-Slightly elevated liver enzymes (even from recent dental - could be paid meds but unknown for sure)

-Slight bacteria in urine (treating for UTI to cover all bases)

-Everything else okay (including kidney function)

-Lower than normal thyroid levels (this had come up in a previous test but didn't seem actionable at the time)

 

Given recent weight gain (10lbs in the last year on the same diet) and lethargy, vet suspects thyroid issue or Cushing's. Because the Cushing's test is a little more extensive, we are doing further thyroid testing to rule that out first. Vet seems well aware of differences in greyhound thyroid levels. Water intake is slightly more than normal.

 

If problem persists or does not get better with possible treatments for these issues (if diagnosed) we will continue with other options (ultrasounds, xrays, etc.) but will draw the line at biopsies or other more invasive tests unless there is a compelling reason.

 

The vet raised the possibility it's mental/behavioral. Our guts say absolutely not - unless, perhaps it's a cognitive disease (something like doggie alzheimers).

 

Other info. for those who might have info/be reading:

 

-on zomicimide for epilepsy

-on small dose of prozac for anxiety

 

As an aside, for those who feel sick from the fumes of the enzyme cleaners, we found that Angry Orange (which is sold on Amazon) does a great job of addressing deep urine smells when paired with bleach or other cleaners (if you don't mind a citrus scent). It has been a lifesaver for us.

 

Thanks for listening. Any other suggestions or comments are welcome.

[Fruitycake]

Have you seen how he is behaving immediately prior to and during his messing in the house? Can you set up a camera to see what he's doing if he only does it when alone? Our Monty is...how to say it...not always getting a clear message from his back end and sometimes doesn't realize he's dropping something until it's already on its way out (tail is up and out of the way but he doesn't necessarily squat to poop until the first bit has fallen, and he seems to look surprised that it's happening). If he's feeling anxious, maybe that's causing his immediate need to pee and poop. Alternately, maybe he had been anxious about something and started messing in the house and by now it is an engrained behavior (habit) because it is easier.

 

It sounds frustrating, whatever the cause, and I hope you can find a solution!

[Jiffer]

Peeing in the house is definitely not normal for a dog at his age. There's something going on here. I've had several dogs into the 13+ age group where they could not hold it anymore (poo and pee) so I certainly sympathize with your situation. It's difficult.

Have you noticed a difference since giving the Antibiotics? Did they culture the urine? Did they check his prostate?

 

Since he must have some anxiety issues (being on prozac), I wouldn't completely rule out this being behavioral either. Has anything changed that could cause an increase in anxiety? Is there more construction nearby, noise? Change to any one of his humans' health? These are all things that can trigger a dog to have issues.

 

As a matter of interest, when I had my five pack, I could not give Dentastiks treats. They would cause incontinence in them, so you may want to consider everything in his environment if medical continues to be okay.

 

Wishing you much luck! It can be so frustrating to deal with incontinence.

[tbhounds]

Just an FYI for anyone experiencing their dog drinking more with increased urination---most vets check the obvious-diabetes, renal disease, uti, cushings.....but, there's one more thing that should be checked and that's to palpate the thyroid gland. Thyroidcarcinoma can cause those symptoms. Only takes a minute to palpate that thyroid :-)

[santannahmom]

My girl Selena had that issue for a few years. They had put her on Proin and it really helped her. She will now be twelve in May, and is no longer on it.

I hope this helps.

[Guest Bob32392]

Hi all,

 

I just wanted to update this post in case it helps anyone in the future. We have a diagnosis; it's Cushing's disease. A few general comments:

 

-We did the Cushing's test last after other more invasive tests (x rays/ultrasounds, etc.) that required him to be sedated. In hindsight, perhaps we should have tested for Cushing's earlier.

 

-He did not lose any fur or have any skin or fur issues (which is a symptom of Cushing's), demonstrating that it is sometimes, but not always, a symptom.

 

-He is on meds, which have helped some. He's less nervous; there is less panting; and he is going to the bathroom less in the house (although that hasn't stopped entirely).

 

I will write more later on some other health issues he has had (lethargy, weight loss, back leg weakness), but wanted to get post out there so others can see it. (For example, I see a few recent posts in this forum about sudden urination and panting and I want to yell "Test for Cushing's!")

 

Thanks again to this wonderful community for your help.

[XTRAWLD]

Thank you for the update and information! I'm hoping Joe continues to feel better and the messes in the house lessen.