Aggression, Muzzles And Children

[Guest Bob32392]

Hi All,

 

This post is regarding Joe from this thread.

 

To summarize, we have an epileptic, space/fear aggressive 4-year old hound with SA named Joe who also happens to be one of the best, sweetest dogs on the planet and who we love dearly. We also have a four-month old son. His safety is our first priority, and we won't compromise on that. The happiness and well-being of our dog is our second priority, and we won't compromise on that, either. We made a commitment to Joe when we adopted him. Our goal is to do what's best for both our dog and our child.

 

We have had Joe for for two years, and until this past May (pre-baby) had only growled occasionally when someone got in his space. Since May (and since his seizures started, also pre-baby), his behavior has escalated to snaps on three occasions... and most recently a nasty bite at my parent's dog (punctures in the ear and neck). The aggression tends to happen under a narrow set of circumstances - namely when he is on his bed and in pain or has a fear of pain. We are the first to admit that we made some mistakes with Joe (i.e. correcting his growls, getting in his space; see the previous thread for more information.)

 

At the advice of folks on Greytalk, we hired a wonderful certified veterinary behaviorist two months ago familiar with greyhounds who identified/re-diagnosed Joe with: (1) epilepsy (which we knew about); (2) pain/fear of pain aggression; (3) G/I issues (Joe is now on a gluten-free diet); (4) separation anxiety; and (5) orthopedic problems that may be causing chronic pain (he doesn't use his back right leg when coming down the stairs or standing on some occassions). Joe has a neurologist, a veterinary behaviorist, us, and a team of general practice vets all working to help him. In a few weeks he will have an orthopedist, too! We will also be getting him a brain MRI... there is some speculation that his behavior might be tied to the seizures, which could indicate a brain tumor or something similar.

 

Until he bit my parent's dog (who he has always gotten along with and which looked very much like a full-on attack), we were working through things quite well and had no incidents. After witnessing the event however, as parents my husband and I know that Joe cannot ever be in the same room with our child, whether he is in pain or not, unless he is muzzled. Even though his aggression is brought about by very specific circumstances, we cannot risk anything like what we have seen happening to our our son. Period.

 

Seems like we would be ready to re-home, right? No. Which is part of the reason I am here. Joe is extremely sensitive, he was already bounced from a previous home (and a foster home) before ending up with us. I feel like any kind of transition would damage him psychologically to point where he can't recover. He is on a low dose of prozac for anxiety/SA (which seems to have helped), and on 200 mg of zomicimide for his seizures (the seizure meds are about $200 a month, a problem for re-homing him anyway), he is very sensitive, and, as I mentioned, has separation anxiety. Also, we are concerned that he will not end up in a home that can deal with a special needs dog like Joe. (I know the rescue would do its best to place him, but the thought of him ending up with a less attentive family scares the absolute crap out of us.) Since we are not prepared to rehome him, our only option is keeping him separated from the baby/toddler in any situations when Joe might be lying down and lying on his bed (using dog gates, different rooms, etc.), and keeping him muzzled if they are in the same room or if there is a chance they will be in the same room.

 

I'm writing because I would like to hear from people who have successfully kept a dog and child separated or muzzled if in the same room, at all times? Is it realistic? What challenges did you face? How did your dog (and child) respond? What other things tips/tricks did you do to keep everyone sane and safe? (Keep in mind we have read every dog behavior/greyhound/kid dog book on the planet, so we are looking for experience.) I'd be remiss if I didn't express trepidation over the possibility that we make a mistake (or our toddler disobeys us) and he does something that would prompt Joe to hurt him. This is a very real concern.

 

I'm also writing to get any other suggestions, encouragement, or words of advice you might be able to offer. (At this point, we don't need any chastizing. We have already done of that enough to ourselves.) Moreover, in case you're wondering our rescue has been really great and supportive of us as we plow through this experience. They have also given us practical suggestions, talked to us about their re-homing process, and offered tons of moral support.

 

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[TheFullHouse]

How is Joe doing on the seizure medication? I'm curious if you are getting some kind of control from it. There are other, cheaper medications that can be used if necessary. Honestly, when I had the daycare in my home, my dogs were baby gated in a room off of the daycare. The kids could see and touch them through and over the gate but they didn't have full access to the dogs.

 

Honestly, with Joe's space issues, I'm not sure there will ever be a time when your little one can be around him without you worrying. If you can desensitize Joe to the point where he is not space aggressive it may work. Joe is right in the 3 - 5 year range where greyhounds develop idiopathic epilepsy, which would mean he would always be epileptic and always be on medication, which is not a big deal if you get some measure of control over the seizures. I think the MRI is a good idea in his case since he is showing behavioral problems that may be attributed to his seizures.

 

Honestly, unless you are going to separate them until your child is older, and even then since Joe is so unpredictable, it would be a major concern for me and for the safety of the child.

 

Don't think that there aren't homes out there that will take him because there are. I adopted Saint knowing full well he had horrible seizures. I've also adopted two dogs who had major aggression issues so there are homes out there, it may take time to find him another but they are there.

 

I admire the lengths you have gone to to keep Joe. I honestly hope you can work something out so that you can have the best of both worlds. I wish you much luck. Stay in touch, this could be a learning experience for those of us on GT as well as for you and your husband.

[GeorgeofNE]

I agree with everything JillysFullHouse said. I haven't been in your position before--I'm single and childless--but as I read your post, I knew there would be people without babies who would take Joe on.

 

You're in a rotten position--and I hope that you find the right answer for both Joe and your family.

[philospher77]

Another thing to consider is the impact that having a dog that they can't interact with on your children. One of my coworkers has two very aggressive Jack Russels (as in, leap a 6 foot wall and take the extra 4 foot drop to attack the dogs that live down the hill aggressive, and has been bitten by his dogs), and they have instituted very strict rules about how the kids and dog interact. But the result is that the kids are cautious of ALL dogs... taking a wide berth around them when they meet strange dogs outside, only being willing to pet a dog once or twice before they back off, etc. It's good in one way: these kids are extremely unlikely to ever be hurt by dogs. But they are also not going to grow up to be dog-lovers, since they have been taught that dogs are unpredictable and dangerous. So, could you possibly keep both the baby and dog completely separated and supervised? Possible, maybe. But is it going to be as good of a life for either as it might be if Joe is rehomed? That's something to think about as well.

[Guest Bob32392]

Hi Jilly, thanks for your response. Not exactly what I wanted to hear... but I'd rather not have it be sugar-coated. He is doing well on the zomicinide. We had to adjust the dosage a little bit because he was still getting seizures, but we think we found the perfect mix. The neurologist didn't want to use pheno because of the side effects... given that Joe already was having aggression incidents and was already anxious, she wanted to try something that wouldn't cause him further anxiety or discomfort.

 

Yes, we plan to separate Joe and the child (or future children) indefinitely. If they are in the same room, Joe will be muzzled and the children will be taught to leave him alone. The bite on my parents dog (and the other incidents) happened right in the same room in our line of vision. Just supervising in the same room isn't enough. Before we could even say "No," the damage had already been done.

 

I'd be lying if I said this isn't incredibly difficult. Keeping everyone happy, safe, and healthy has been a challenge and emotionally draining. Having a child really changed the equation. If this were just my husband and I we would deal with this ourselves and the stakes wouldn't be so high. Joe was doing fine at the time that we decided to conceive... just a few infrequent growls which always had good reasons. Things really started to get fishy when I was 4-5 months pregnant. I think it's safe to say that if we had known this would happen, we would have waited to have a kid. But hindsight is always 20/20.

[Guest Bob32392]

Another thing to consider is the impact that having a dog that they can't interact with on your children. One of my coworkers has two very aggressive Jack Russels (as in, leap a 6 foot wall and take the extra 4 foot drop to attack the dogs that live down the hill aggressive, and has been bitten by his dogs), and they have instituted very strict rules about how the kids and dog interact. But the result is that the kids are cautious of ALL dogs... taking a wide berth around them when they meet strange dogs outside, only being willing to pet a dog once or twice before they back off, etc. It's good in one way: these kids are extremely unlikely to ever be hurt by dogs. But they are also not going to grow up to be dog-lovers, since they have been taught that dogs are unpredictable and dangerous. So, could you possibly keep both the baby and dog completely separated and supervised? Possible, maybe. But is it going to be as good of a life for either as it might be if Joe is rehomed? That's something to think about as well.

 

Yikes. I'm not liking where this is going. The thought of rehoming him makes my physically ill. I can't imagine someone else taking care of him the way we do. I cannot imagine not being there with him throughout his life. Actually, I have imagined it. And it's horrible.

 

I know that separation is not ideal. And I'm hoping that they can be together in the same room if Joe is muzzled. I'm not sure how much I'd be comfortable with them interacting at first... but I'm hoping over time we'd get more comfortable, especially if we can address any other health issues.

 

Edited: Upon a re-read, I didn't mean to sound rude about "where this is going," in case I did! I appreciate your post, and I've had the same thoughts. I guess there are so few greytalk posts where people actually raise the possibility of re-homing that it startled me a bit. I just can't believe any of this is even happening. It's like a nightmare.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Bob32392

[BatterseaBrindl]

No advice.

Just a for you, your family and especially Joe.

My heart aches for all of you.

[ChiliDog]

What Nancy (Batterseabrindl) said...

 

Having just gone through a bounce of a hound after the people had him for UNDER twenty four hours (and the dog did nothing, by the way - the people just felt that he was going to be too "high maintenance as he growled at a dog across the street ) , your post brought tears to my eyes.

 

Your love for Joe shines through crystal clear - I hope you can resolve your dilemma in a way that is beneficial for all of you.

 

Donna

[cleptogrey]

dynamics often change even with the easiest, most laid back dog in the world when a baby arrives. i was totally paranoid w/ a laid back child friend saluki when our daughter arrived. they did turn out to be best friends and my daughter's first word-goodog- since that was what i said all the time. but i was not dealing w/ any of the multiple issues you are.

 

i would talk to the animal behavorist and see what their response is. they know the dog well, have worked with him and know you as a client.

 

as to meds, check online. i reduced the cost of florineff by ordering from canada. my vet used to fax a script and i would buy 300# pills for less than the of the price of 100# in the states. i don't know if regulations have changed, but it's worth a shot.

 

obviously you have a good giving heart, i see that you have really worked w/ your pup but in my book the saftey of your baby comes first and foremost.accidents happen, gates can be knocked over, babies stick fingers in gates, i think it's way too impractical trying to keep them seperated ALL the time. also, way to stressful on the dog.

 

that's why i say go back to the involved behavorist and get some objective feed back and guidance from one who knows the dog.do talk directly to your adoption rep or president of your adoption group as well.

best of luck, life ain't easy

[MaryJane]

Can his bed be placed in a different room where he could still see interactions - maybe like a dining room. Could you get a carpenter to put in a wrought iron type of gate that screws into the wall?

 

You could separate him when he is sleeping and then when it is time to interact with the family, put the muzzle on him and let him into the living room. Maybe not the ideal situation but, it gives you a chance to see how it will work short term.

 

I also have a space aggressive seizure dog and if I had small children I would be in the same position as you -- so I can feel your pain.

[Guest PhillyPups]

First and foremost I must say I admire your dedication and total love and devotion to Joe and his needs. Many times in life we get changes thrown at us. Personally, I would worry forever with a baby and a dog with fear biting. I understand how much you love Joe and your baby, and for the love of both, I would consider re-homing rather than a bite to your child, and Joe failing by fear biting your child.

 

There are many folks that have childless homes, and could love Joe as much as you. I had a fear aggressive greyhoud. TigerPower was an absolute sweetheart, but had fear aggression, and he was afraid of children. I could never trust him around children.

 

It is good you are working with your group through this. It is a very rare occasion that I suggest re-homeing rather than working through issues, this is one of those times. Right now it is easier as your baby is still immobile. Crawling babies are fast, as are greyhounds, and a greyhound can bite through a muzzle. Rather than see an accident happen, it may be best to let Joe go to a home with no youngsters around that are not taking the risks you are out of your love for Joe.

 

I know you are in a horrible position, but I do feel your babies welfare must come first. This does not mean you can never adopt a greyhound, it is just that Joe may not be the right fit for your home situation.

 

Good luck and please keep us posted.

[Guest Bob32392]

Cleptogrey,

The behaviorist told us that we would need to keep Joe and the baby separated indefinitely or with Joe wearing a muzzle to protect them both. Especially if Joe is lying down in a room. She urged us to address his underlying health problems, which appear to cause pain and/or anxiety that are leading to the moments of aggression. We are doing this... MRI of his head, taking him to an orthopedist, working to tame the ear infections through a hypoallergenic diet, re-working his meds, etc.. She thinks if we adopted him out that he would likely be bounced again and that it could really mess with him even more. That is my fear as well. He's a very sensitive boy.

 

I do realize that wearing a muzzle and being behind gates and doors all the time is not an ideal life for Joe (or us). The alternative of re-homing however, is something we can't comprehend. And we don't know that it would be best for him. I will admit, though, that every time I lock a gate or put the muzzle over those sweet brown eyes my heart breaks a little bit.

 

I've only talked about the bad things he does... but there is so much good. He is such a sweet boy who loves people. He is fun and life-loving... and he's the most beautiful brindle I've ever seen. He can really do a number on a stuffie... and there is nothing he loves more than car rides and other dogs. And he's absolutely smarter than everyone thinks he is! He WANTS to be a good boy... I know he does. More than that, he is absolutely best friends with my husband. They are inseparable. This has absolutely devastated my husband. Joe is his first dog and my husband loves him like we all loved our first dogs... in that innocent, open-hearted way... when you can't possibly think you could love an animal so much and can't imagine your life without them.

[cleptogrey]

i hear you speaking as a loving, careing dog owner. but i will stick to my guns. baby sitters can make mistakes, we as adults can make mistakes and a muzzle is really really hard if it hits a baby. my grey does wear a muzzle when playing w/ his corgi friend. she was bopped in the head/eye and had an awful contusion from the incident. just imagine child bumped in the head- i've been knocked by the muzzle, glasses out of wack and man does that hurt.

 

my female grey does not feel secure around children, when they are over- into the crate. she has let out a low warning growl and walked away. that was the warning and i now ALWAYS crate her w/ little ones around- better safe than sorry. the visitng children come first, she is fine crated, the children are safe and it's temporary. i would not have her as a pet if i had a young child here permanetly.

 

i agree with PHILLYPUPS 100%. also in reading that he is your husband's first dog that makes things difficult. when and if joe finds the right place, older family with experience he will thrive. if he is physically uncomfortable and in pain now, what is he going to be like in 2-4 years? physical discomforts speak very loudly- i know, i was bit by my faithful welsh terrier at age 12- he was in pain! also think about playdates with other children as your child matures, possibly additional children,and the agile clever little ones who just might climb! not all children stay out of "off limits" places.

 

it will be more difficult to rehome a dog who has bitten a child, an even older dog. i would talk to your peditrician find out how very active little ones are. even maybe talk to your priest if you are religious, he should care about ALL LIVING CREATURES and their welfare.

 

does your animal behavorist have children?

[MaryJane]

I guess to me it sounds like you are willing to make whatever changes are necessary to try and keep your dog at home so, I'm of the mind that you take all the precautions that you can (gate and muzzle) and see how it is for a few weeks especially as you are still working with a behaviorist and the other doctors.

 

In any circumstances, parents should never leave a dog alone with a baby or child even when the dog is a happy-go-lucky one so I guess I'm not seeing much difference here with a dog with a known problem (at least you know you have to watch). Both of you sound committed to making it work and that goes a long way towards having a good outcome - doesn't guarantee it but, you never have guarantees.

 

When you have a dog that has snapped, you are going to be more careful -- contrast that with a dog that has never snapped but, one day it has a bad day and it snaps. There is always the potential with any dog -- you are just going to be more aware of it.

 

Re-homing is always a possibility but, as I think you know .. the chances of a seizure dog getting a home quickly or even not so quickly is going to be tough. During the time that the dog is at the adoption group he would likely be in a cage most of the day .. so I think if you need to confine him more at home that would be a good compromise.

 

Sometimes if you let a situation develop a bit more (of course making sure appropriate safeguards are taken), the path (and maybe other options) that you should follow becomes more pronounced.

 

As to the medicine - is it zonisamide? If so, you can get generic for about $25 or so a month. (edited to add - that is for 120 pills each being 100mg)

Edited January 2, 2012 by MaryJane

[Batmom]

I'm going to disagree with some of the knowledgeable folks above for two reasons:

 

1. Biting another dog isn't the same as biting a person. Totally different category. Many dogs will also bite cats, squirrels, and frogs. Has nothing to do with how they react to a person.

 

2. In the earlier thread, he snapped when he was lying down on his bed and someone bent over him to pet him. There are dogs who just don't like that, sometimes at particular stages of life, sometimes forever. You have one.

 

There are many people with small children who are able to manage dog interactions such that the children (and adults!) do not approach the dog when the dog is lying down on his bed. You have to decide whether you can do that or not.

 

Best luck with your decision.

[BauersMom]

I haven't dealt with the kid issues, but I had two dogs at one point who did NOT get along, so I had to manage a 'separate' household. While it wasn't ideal, we made it work.

 

In general, having a small child and a dog is always a difficult juggling act. Even in the absence of any biting incidents, children should never be left alone with a dog and taught to not approach the dog on a bed, etc. A basic 'dog proofing your dog' book will have a lot of good, basic advice.

 

And I think you are right - a dog with both behavioral and medical issues will be a difficult placement.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would make sure the medical stuff gets squared away for sure first. Make sure he has a 'safe place' to go hang out that is close enough to be part of the family, but far enough away that he isn't underfoot or feeling crowded on. Control all the kid-dog interactions - allow the interaction to occur in situations where you know Joe will be at ease (say, standing up with the child giving treats, when old enough).

 

I do think this is a manageable situation if you want it to be. Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

Good luck.

[JJNg]

Lots of good responses and things to consider. While I don't have children, I feel that this can be a manageable situation if you're willing to take the precautions and put in the time and effort that will be required to make it work. And even so, you need to be prepared for the possibility that there may be accidents and the chance of a negative interaction.

 

I mainly wanted to comment on the concern brought up by philosopher77 of the impact an aggressive dog may have on the child. First of all, Joe isn't an aggressive dog, and it sounds like he may be able to interact nicely with the child when he's up and standing. Even with an aggressive dog in the home that the kids can never interact with, I feel it's possible to counter this by making sure the children have opportunities to interact with nice dogs belonging to friends or family, or perhaps by adding a 2nd dog to the home at some point. Just make sure the aggressive dog isn't the only one the kids are ever around.

 

Your level of commitment to Joe is remarkable, and I hope everything works out well for your family.

[Guest sweetpea]

Oh, I'm so sorry for your difficulties.

 

I can't speak to the medical issues you're dealing with, just my experience with babies/toddlers/children and dogs.

 

I have a niece (Elsa, 5 years old) and nephew (Finn, 2 years) who come over every Wednesday afternoon.

We've had Sweetpea since Elsa was 8 months old.

 

One of the things that many people underestimate is how fast kids move, even crawlers.

They are like ninjas, they have this sixth sense for when grownup attention is diverted, even

for a millisecond, and then they POUNCE, doing exactly what you just told them not to.

 

NOTHING is as attractive as what they are prevented from doing.

They're freakin' relentless. (Especially the littlest monster GAH!)

And there are at least two sometimes three grownups here running interference.

 

Sweetpea comes out when they first come over, says her hellos and then I put her away in my room.

She's perfectly happy with that.

 

We haven't had any slip-ups, but I'm pretty obsessed with keeping everybody safe.

 

And, I'm not concerned about the kids getting their feelings hurt, if that makes me "the mean auntie", so be it.

 

But we only have to do this once a week.

 

As an aside, I would second Batmom's contention that "Biting another dog isn't the same as biting a person".

We have a Rat Terrier here who's killed animals (including a chicken, a crow, a squirrel and a toy fox terrier).

Sebastian has never exhibited any aggression toward humans, and while I would never leave him alone with the kids,

(more for his protection ) I'm not worried that he will bite them or anyone else.

 

(No, Sebastian didn't kill any of those animals on our watch. But that's why he's here with us now.)

(And Yes, I know prey drive is a different animal than fear/pain biting, or seizure disorders.)

 

Again, I am sorry you're going through this, I hope you can find a workable solution.

 

buzzy

[kudzu]

You've received excellent input so far. I don't have any children so my only experience is having a sister 10.5 years my younger, lots of baby sitting, & like BauersMom I've had dogs we had to keep separated much of the time for safety issues. It was far from ideal. BF & I both made mistakes. A couple times it resulted in injuries. That's hard enough when it is other dogs or adults. Am not going to argue that you can't make it work but will say with all honesty that I couldn't. I say this as someone who is a klutz & too forgetful. It simply wouldn't be workably safe in our home.

 

One thing I noticed with Angel, our forever foster who required separation, is that when in her xpen she was far more tolerant of the other dogs even if they were leaning against or even hanging a head over the pen. Was that because she'd come to realized the pen offered her a measure of protection & so felt better able to relax? Don't know. BTW, her xpenned area was in living room in middle of house & included her favorite human's recliner. No isolation chamber this. She was more tolerant of vets & techs handling her when she was muzzled. It wasn't that she'd figured out she couldn't bite so gave up. Its hard to explain. You'd have to have seen it. From watching the vet staff I became convinced it was because her human handlers were more relaxed when Angel was muzzled. Those would all be good news for your situation. Unfortunately, sometimes the first sign something had changed with her health was because her fear aggression escalated when she felt worse. That is a dangerous barometer with a child in the house.

 

On the issue of rehoming, here are some thoughts should you ultimately decide rehoming is best or perhaps that should be least bad. Your dedication to Joe & willingness to work through possible health issues as well as keep all parties safe can be a huge benefit as it sounds like you can offer to keep him in your home at least short term while a suitable foster or permanent home is found. Yours is an exceptional family in your love for & commitment to Joe but there is usually more than one exception to every situation. You will not be the only home who could offer Joe this level of love & commitment to Joe's health, happiness & safety.

 

You no doubt are well aware but I will say it anyway. One of the worst things that could happen to Joe would be a record of seriously injuring a child through intentional action. If that happened not only would it likely be the final thing that causes you to rehome him but it would make him far more difficult to rehome even to people with no children.

 

Except for having a young child your home sounds perfect for Joe. I wish there were some magic to work that would resolve this situation for you. Thank you for doing your utmost.

[Guest Bob32392]

Thanks to each and every one of you for your responses. We read them all very carefully. Based on the feedback we've received we've been re-evaluting our situation here.

 

When we adopted Joe, from the moment we picked him up from his foster home, we made a lifetime commitment to him. We thought that meant that we would keep him, no matter what. No matter his happiness, no matter ours... as long as his safety and the safety of us and our child was not compromised. Gradually (and with your help), we are accepting that by staying with us his happiness, quality of life, and potential to be the amazing dog that he is might be compromised. Try as we will to keep everyone separated indefinitely, we might make a mistake. As many pointed out, such a mistake could have awful consequences not only for our child, future children, etc., but also for Joe. We cannot set him up to fail. And anything that did happen would be 100% our fault. It's also foolish to think that no one else could love him or care for him as we do. I know there are plenty of wonderful people out there who love their dogs (this board is a prime example.) It's just so scary to put your faith in someone else to care for the animal who you love and have cherished so much. What if the wrong decision is made? What if he is bounced? What if they don't give him the care we did or pay attention to his signals? The thought is almost too much to bear.

 

Even though our thinking on this has evolved, we are in no hurry to make rash decisions. Our baby is still immobile and Joe seems to be okay with the muzzle/separation situation for now. Our first priority is sorting out his health situation. We consulted with his behaviorist again (she doesn't have children, as someone asked) and we are slightly increasing his prozac. We will set up an appointment with the orthopedist, find a cheaper alternative to Zomicimide (thank you all for the ideas), and then arrange for an brain MRI and dental about a month from now. (My husband is studying for the bar and taking care of our child right now... adding Joe-just-out-of-anesthesia to the mix while he is studying might be too much.) We will also continue our ongoing conversation with the rescue. (They have indicated that given the special circumstances we might be able to "foster" Joe ourselves and play a major role in where he ends up.) After we have all the information we can possibily collect, we will make a decision. In the meantime, we are giving Joe lots and lots of love while working to ensure everyone's safety.

 

Thank you all again for your feedback, we really appreciate it. This is a really great community, and we will be sure to keep everyone posted no matter the outcome. That being said, please feel free to leave additional comments or suggestions... we are trying to soak up as many different perspectives and information as possible.

[TheFullHouse]

You are amazing parents to Joe. I admire you both and the level of committment you have shown to your boy. Iwill keep you all in my prayers as you work through his medical issues and pray you find the magic bullet to help him and maybe stay the wonderful family you are, with Joe in it.

[Guest Bean_Scotch]

this may not be what you want to hear...but I've successfully managed an aggressive Greyhound...

 

Reggie was an extremely aggressive(to both dogs and people). He would bite you and bite you hard enough to draw blood without any warning, well I shouldn't say any warning. His 'warning' was a certain look in his eye that only I understood. Anyway, he would also bite other dogs. I managed him with a muzzle and crating when necessary in a pack of 4-6 dogs at any given time. It wasn't easy but he was muzzled when loose with them and unmuzzled in his crate. I was very dedicated to this dog, because I loved him dearly and we did it..Now granted, I don't have kids but it sounds like Joe's aggression is situational and can be easily monitered...Reggie's was across the board. I just wanted to give you my .02 and say that it can be done...Good luck with whatever decison you make. It's obvious that you love Joe and want to do what's best for him.

[Guest Bob32392]

Bean_Scotch, thanks so much for your perspective. I definitely want to hear about what others have done... your dog was extremely lucky to have someone like you on his side. Do you know why he was so aggressive?

 

I think that kids make the difference. I'm more than 100% certain that if it were just my husband and I we would not even be entertaining the notion of re-homing him. We would manage the situation. (We had been trying to manage it prior to the baby being born.) However, the fact that we have a child complicates things. If something were to happen on our watch after knowing what we know, we would never forgive ourselves. And the repercussions for Joe would be awful.

 

That being said, we are not making any major decisions until we have more information about Joe's health. In the meantime, everyone is safely separated and Joe is getting lots of love.

 

Edit: Everyone being "safely separated" reminded me about MaryJane's previous post about setting up a wrought iron gate. We actually have a wall-mounted iron gate separating the dining room/kitchen where Joe is and the living room where the baby usually is. Joe can see everything that's happening, which is nice so he doesn't feel too left out.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Bob32392

[Guest BooMooandDoo]

You can do it.

 

I have successfully managed an extremely aggressive dog and a child for three years and we have never had a bite.

 

Does it take a lot of work? Definitely.

Does it take commitment? Definitely.

Have I made mistakes? Yes, I'm human.

Is it worth all of the effort? Definitely

Is the quality of life for my dog so bad that I feel he's missing out? Absolutely NOT.

 

The first thing you have to do is to teach the baby what is off limits. The dog is off limits. The dog's things are off limits. The baby goes towards the dog, you redirect. The baby will learn.

 

Secondly, I NEVER leave my child, Emma, and Tucker in a room unattended (but I don't leave her with Truman or Mazie either, who are totally toddler proof. . no dog should be alone with a small child. Regardless of the situation).

 

Tuck and Em are never allowed to share the same space. If Tucker is on the couch, Em isn't allowed on the couch and vice versa. If I leave a room where Tucker is, I take Emma with me. I do not reprimand Tucker when he growls. That's a warning. I would prefer to have a dog that growled than one that went straight for the bite. Em knows that a growl means to leave Tucker alone, and she respects this. It's been a long road, but she understands and so does he.

 

For those who have posted that your kid will learn to be afraid of dogs, I think that's a bunch of hooey. My child is not afraid of Tucker, she respects his space and has some of the best dog manners that I've ever seen. (It helps that she's grown up in a pet store and has comes in contact with borderline dogs daily).

 

I had people tell me that it couldn't be done. I've done it, and I feel I've done it quite well. When Em's asleep, Tucker is allowed to do what ever he wants. When she's awake I manage them both. Neither one is "losing out" because of it. It's not about the "bad dog". Its about the love you have for both your child and dog that will give you the strength to make sure it works. PM me if you want to chat.

[Ragsysmum]

No advice, but just very best wishes for it all to work out fine for you.