Thunder Anxiety

[Guest Mr_Owski]

So one of my two greyhounds, Whompus, has evolved over the past 9 months to be very sensitive to thunder. Even the lowest rumble miles and miles away will send him running upstairs into a corner where he'll spend hours in the dark panting, salivating, and trembling non-stop. He also refuses to eat during this time, even treats don't work. This is a dog who will follow me to every room of the house and is very food motivated. We just had a very small storm not even hit us, but a single, faint bit of thunder a town away has had him in a panic for the past hour. We even took him for a walk with our other grey (who is completely unphased by the sound of storms, yet will not pee in the rain...go figure) to show him there were people outside in our neighborhood and that the weather was fine, but he was panting throughout and continued to be a nervous wreck in the comfort of our home once we returned.

Whompus is very sensitive to noise, constantly perking up when a pickup truck engine starts, the garbage truck dumps a load, some hotshot kid drives by with their bass blasting...yet none of these things send him into a panic. Even when I play loud music or a movie with a loud soundtrack, he will remain laying in the same room with me and my other grey. I completely acknowledge that he may also be sensing pressure drops or static in conjunction with the presence of thunder, but everything I've observed indicate it's the noise first and foremost that gets to him. Whenever a normal rain occurs without thunder, he may pant slightly, but doesn't give us anywhere near as many issues. I believe it's the presence of rain that he may associate with the thunder that he fears.

In this day and age, I of course want to find the quickest, simplest, and most inexpensive solution to correct the problem. However, given the nature of working with an animal, I acknowledge this is not going to be the case. I've been reading up on the various remedies to help with this kind of problem, and I'd like to express my thoughts and doubts so that some of you seasoned veterans can lend some advice, refute my ideas, expand on what you've had success with, or offer additional council.

1. Thunder shirts
I'm familiar with Temple Grandin's work with livestock and how she uses deep pressure therapy as a means to relate her autism relief method to helping animals. I also understand that this is not an instant cure-all for canines. Although with humans and bovine it may provide immediate relief, it takes a lot of conditioning and association for dogs. The rather hit-or-miss results I've been reading with greyhound results is a bit unattractive. Although it's a relatively affordable gamble that is returnable, the times we've wrapped Whompus tight with a towel, comforter,and his winter coat (all item's he's been with around the house) during different storms have seemingly done nothing to subdue his anxiety.

2. Rescue remedy and other 'natural' ingredients
I'm very analytical and scientific. The use of somewhat homeopathic remedies makes me very leery and constantly question if I'm wasting my money on a sham. Although natural chemicals may be claimed to be healthier, I'm skeptical as to how flower essences are supposed to help a dog who is psychologically tormented. The DAP diffuser sounds intriguing, but it reminds me of a glade plug-in, and again I worry if it's a money-waster.

3. Sound therapies
I've opened up youtube videos of storm sounds when Whompus was in my office, and I cranked up the volume. Overall, it did nothing to elicit a similar storm reaction. He was moreover disturbed by the loud noise of my subwoofer and just calmly walked to the bedroom to sleep in peace. I have heard of the canine lullabies CDs, but similar to my skepticism to natural remedies, I don't want to waste money on a dog CD if it's claims are as provable as every diet pill coming to market for humans.

4. Melatonin
I'm familiar with this as a sleep aid and can help with fur growth/health, but I'm a bit foggy as to how this can help with anxiety.

Is it only best used simultaneously with other medications? (see below)

5. Drugs

Obviously this is something to consult with my vet about, but from what I've been reading this seems to be the option that's most attractive to me simply because of the scientific backing behind medicine and how I know it will effect something in my dog's body to help. I'm a bit overwhelmed in determining what meds to use and why (along with any negative side effects). I see greyhound owners recommending Prozac, Benadryl, Trazadone, Xanax, Clomicalm, etc. Not only is experimenting with various drugs likely to be expensive, of course I don't want to pump my dog full of different meds to mess with his nervous system.

 

 

I will continue to do my research, especially in regards to the medications, but any advice or help would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

[Walliered]

I use a form of Xanax and I think it was $4.00 at Walmart (30) pills.

[Batmom]

The two drugs that were recommended to me by one of the Ohio State Univ. vets and a passel of dog owners were trazodone and Xanax. I chose Xanax. It isn't a *cure* but it eliminates the trembling and panting and extreme urge to hide.

 

People (including the prescribing vet) will likely tell you that you have to give it an hour or two before the storm. Here it helps even when given after the storm has started.

 

Also, I give only half the prescribed dose; full dose makes the dog slightly unsteady on her feet such that I can't take her down/up a flight of stairs until it wears off some; half dose does the job and she is still steady enough for stairs.

[Busderpuddle]

I use a form of Xanax and I think it was $4.00 at Walmart (30) pills.

Ruby was prescribed Xanax yesterday for thunder and fireworks. We had tried all of the other things you mentioned with no success. Hopefully the Xanax will help.

[Guest Mr_Owski]

I use a form of Xanax and I think it was $4.00 at Walmart (30) pills.

Would u happen to know the name? Is it just a generic medication with the same active ingredients?

[greysmom]

Alprazolam is the generic of xanax. It's exactly the same. Benadryl is a human antihistamine that is sometimes given to help calm dogs. It has the same sedating effect as with some people, but it's not an antianxiety medication.

 

Acepromazine is also a drug that some vets prescribe. Greyhounds seem to generally not respond well to this drug, being given to extreme reactions, even to minor doses. It also is a sedative, and only makes the dog unable to respond to his anxiety. It doesn't relieve the anxiety in any way. You dog will still be scared, but totally unable to do anything about it, which will probably increase his fear of whatever it is rather than help it.

 

Basically, there is only one anti-anxiety medication made specifically for use in canines - Clomicalm. This is also know as clomipramine and is a tricyclic antidepressant. It is only licensed for use on separation anxiety.

 

Every other drug you mentioned, and others used for various purposes for dogs, are entirely off-label uses of human drugs. There are human drugs being used for dogs from every class of anti-anxiety medicine - benzodiazapines, SSRAs, tricyclic antidepressants, MAOIs, and newer classes like SARI (serotonin antagonist and reuptake inhibitors). They all have their plusses and minuses in regards to efficacy and side effects. And, just like with people, each individual dog will react to each drug differently. Since dogs can't tell us what is working and what isn't, it usually requires a bit of trial-and-error. It depends entirely on your dog's brain chemistry, and what exactly is causing the problem.

 

For "situational anxiety" like thunder and fireworks, most vets prefer a drug that works quickly and which metabolizes out of the system quickly. This cuts out anti-anxiety meds which need to build up in the dog's system - drugs like clomicalm, prozac, paxil. These need to be given for an extended period of time to create a clinically useful level in the body, sometimes as long as two weeks. Unless you have thunder every day these are likely to be too much drug for the problem.

 

Benzodiazepines like xanax and valium can be used situationally as they take effect within an hour and metabolize in 6-8 hours. They also have a wide effective dosing range. Both have relatively few side effects for dogs. In my experience it does not work as well when given AFTER the dog has started to become anxious. This can make a difference for thunder storms when you don't know exactly when they're going to pop up.

 

Recently, many vets have begun prescribing Trazadone. This is a newer anti anxiety med being tried for dogs. It is a SARI class and works significantly diferently than other AA medicines. As with other second generation anti anxiety drugs, the side effects and potential for overdose are much less. It takes effect quickly and metabolizes within about 8-9 hours. It also has better effect when given after the dog becomes anxious (in my experience). It's also quite a bit cheaper than other drugs.

 

Trazadone was so effective for my spook that we have completely moved her to this medication for her anxiety. She was formerly taking a combination of Paxil and xanax for generalized anxiety, with additional bump ups for thunder/fireworks. Now, two regular doses eight hours apart of Trazadone will get her through 24 hours, including any situational needs.

 

To address you thoughts about holistic medicine, I can only say that some things work for some dogs and some don't. It all depends on the physical cause of the problem. Thunder shirts work miracles for some dogs - particularly those who are effected by the changing pressure and electrical charge in the air associated with thunder storms. You might try it, since your dog wasn't affected by the *sound* of the storm you played for him - it may be the electrical charge or pressure that is making him anxious. Some dogs just find it comforting. Rescue Remedy can also be effective in a general way to help calm some dogs down. The same way chamomile tea can help some people to sleep better. Ditto for melatonin and other supplements. Melatonin puts me right to sleep, but it barely has an effect on my spook, even at high doses.

 

DAP is different, in my opinion. The science of using pheromones is fairly well known, and can definitely help in certain circumstances, such as separation anxiety. Dog Appeasing Pheromone is not the same as a holistic remedy or herbal supplement. It replicates the pheromones given off by a mother dog to her pups.

 

CD's and other tools used to desensitize certain sounds *can* be useful with time and patience. It can take months for these methods to work, and they need to be practiced assiduously. But again, if it's not the *sound* they're afraid of, it's probably not going to help much.

 

I hope that helps. Good luck.

[GreyTzu]

ThunderShirt is about the only product I tout. In our house, we have two success stories with Disco and Deuce. Does it make them normal during a storm? No, of course not. But it does makes them less stressed. Disco used to hide behind Danger and pant and quiver. Now, most of the time, he flops on a bed and sleeps. Deuce used to jump on the sofa and pant uncontrollably, drool, and violently shake. Now, for the most part, she will just lay on the sofa, mildly pant, and look around.

However, do not just buy a TS, slap it on in the middle of a storm and expect a miracle.

 

Read the "training" or familiarization instructions that TS provides. I was absolutely adamant and consistent when we got the first one. I made sure Kevin did it too. Happy, sunshiny days, whip out the TS, give a treat and let Deuce and Disco wear it. 10 or 15 minutes later, remove the TS and give Deuce and Disco a treat. Happy times, fun times. We did this many, many times, so much so that the other dogs no longer look for treats when we break out the TS's. They know they are not getting a treat, so there is no reason to get up from their beds.

 

 

Now when we hear a storm, we whip out the TS, put it on, give a treat, and go back to whatever we were doing. Today Deuce actually ate her dinner while wearing her TS, during a storm.

 

However, there are still times when our storms are bad enough that all the dogs will react a bit. That is just life, we cannot plan for everything. When we are not at home and a storm hits, again, that's life, the dogs manage themselves. Kevin and I know the house is secure and safe to the best of our abilities and that is the most we can do.

 

As for Melatonin, the dosage is 10 mg. It did nothing for our thunder freaks, but it does help grow butt hair. :lol

 

We now have a cat who is thunder-phobic. The Great Catsby leaps up and runs under the bed and hides during a storm. ThunderShirt does make a TS for cats, but I doubt I will get her one. She seems "okay" under the bed and recovers much quicker than the dogs do. Within minutes of a storm passing, she is out and stalking around the house, bright eyed, looking for trouble. :lol

 

The TS is one of the best products I have bought for our dogs in a long time. Again, we followed the familiarization instructions that TS provides and had good results.

 

Good luck.

[scullysmum]

Presuming it is available in the US you could try Zylkene. Here is a link to a UK forum so you can see what people who have used it have to say http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=230337

 

I have some in my drawer here because new boy Johnny is sensitive to certain noises and I may have to try it out for him at some time, he was a bit freaked last weekend when he could hear artillery fire from France during the D Day commemorations.

[win4profit]

I'm glad you asked the question, Slick reacts just the way Whompus (love the name) does. Greysmom-greyt response, you have most definetly tried it all. We have been considering the Thundershirt and will probably start with that.

[Guest Mr_Owski]

Thank you all very much for taking the time to write such great replies.

 

I think my plan of action is going to be to try and procure some meds for the immediate future since the recent onslaught of thunderstorms and upcoming 4th of july has me worried. From there I'll try and spend the time to build up an association with the thundershirt for the long-term.

 

It seems like trazadone is a good choice, and I'll definitely do some more research into that. The fact that it's vet-approved and affordable is a huge plus. Otherwise, I'll try and procure some Xanax/alprazolam.

[IndyandHollyluv]

Alprazolam is the generic of xanax. It's exactly the same. Benadryl is a human antihistamine that is sometimes given to help calm dogs. It has the same sedating effect as with some people, but it's not an antianxiety medication.

 

Acepromazine is also a drug that some vets prescribe. Greyhounds seem to generally not respond well to this drug, being given to extreme reactions, even to minor doses. It also is a sedative, and only makes the dog unable to respond to his anxiety. It doesn't relieve the anxiety in any way. You dog will still be scared, but totally unable to do anything about it, which will probably increase his fear of whatever it is rather than help it.

 

Basically, there is only one anti-anxiety medication made specifically for use in canines - Clomicalm. This is also know as clomipramine and is a tricyclic antidepressant. It is only licensed for use on separation anxiety.

 

Every other drug you mentioned, and others used for various purposes for dogs, are entirely off-label uses of human drugs. There are human drugs being used for dogs from every class of anti-anxiety medicine - benzodiazapines, SSRAs, tricyclic antidepressants, MAOIs, and newer classes like SARI (serotonin antagonist and reuptake inhibitors). They all have their plusses and minuses in regards to efficacy and side effects. And, just like with people, each individual dog will react to each drug differently. Since dogs can't tell us what is working and what isn't, it usually requires a bit of trial-and-error. It depends entirely on your dog's brain chemistry, and what exactly is causing the problem.

 

For "situational anxiety" like thunder and fireworks, most vets prefer a drug that works quickly and which metabolizes out of the system quickly. This cuts out anti-anxiety meds which need to build up in the dog's system - drugs like clomicalm, prozac, paxil. These need to be given for an extended period of time to create a clinically useful level in the body, sometimes as long as two weeks. Unless you have thunder every day these are likely to be too much drug for the problem.

 

Benzodiazepines like xanax and valium can be used situationally as they take effect within an hour and metabolize in 6-8 hours. They also have a wide effective dosing range. Both have relatively few side effects for dogs. In my experience it does not work as well when given AFTER the dog has started to become anxious. This can make a difference for thunder storms when you don't know exactly when they're going to pop up.

 

Recently, many vets have begun prescribing Trazadone. This is a newer anti anxiety med being tried for dogs. It is a SARI class and works significantly diferently than other AA medicines. As with other second generation anti anxiety drugs, the side effects and potential for overdose are much less. It takes effect quickly and metabolizes within about 8-9 hours. It also has better effect when given after the dog becomes anxious (in my experience). It's also quite a bit cheaper than other drugs.

 

Trazadone was so effective for my spook that we have completely moved her to this medication for her anxiety. She was formerly taking a combination of Paxil and xanax for generalized anxiety, with additional bump ups for thunder/fireworks. Now, two regular doses eight hours apart of Trazadone will get her through 24 hours, including any situational needs.

 

To address you thoughts about holistic medicine, I can only say that some things work for some dogs and some don't. It all depends on the physical cause of the problem. Thunder shirts work miracles for some dogs - particularly those who are effected by the changing pressure and electrical charge in the air associated with thunder storms. You might try it, since your dog wasn't affected by the *sound* of the storm you played for him - it may be the electrical charge or pressure that is making him anxious. Some dogs just find it comforting. Rescue Remedy can also be effective in a general way to help calm some dogs down. The same way chamomile tea can help some people to sleep better. Ditto for melatonin and other supplements. Melatonin puts me right to sleep, but it barely has an effect on my spook, even at high doses.

 

DAP is different, in my opinion. The science of using pheromones is fairly well known, and can definitely help in certain circumstances, such as separation anxiety. Dog Appeasing Pheromone is not the same as a holistic remedy or herbal supplement. It replicates the pheromones given off by a mother dog to her pups.

 

CD's and other tools used to desensitize certain sounds *can* be useful with time and patience. It can take months for these methods to work, and they need to be practiced assiduously. But again, if it's not the *sound* they're afraid of, it's probably not going to help much.

 

I hope that helps. Good luck.

 

What a thoughtful, easy to understand, and helpful post. While I lost my last greyhound in April and now find myself greyhound-less (well, I have an old mixed breed; but not the same as a grey), I have a co-worker who adopted a pit bull puppy in January. Dog has serious anxiety issues. Mom was found out on the street and pups may have suffered nutritional deficiencies - so not sure if the pup is wired right. Anyway, they are trying a combo of training, diet, and (last resort) meds to help this poor sweet dog. He's a good boy; just screwed up. Your post is clear and concise and I will provide her with a copy.

 

Thank you for taking the time to compose it.

[kronckew]

my greyhounds were absolutely terrified of thunder and fireworks. low flying jet aircraft from the airshow at the annual faiford air tattoo did not bother them in the least, even tho that was much louder. a russian MIG29 crashed about 100 yds. away one year. no reaction. one firecracker a mile away & they were trembling and hiding for hours (same with thunder). tried meds. no go. one made them so loopy they could hardly walk. i figured that was worse than the noise, they hated it. i read somewhere that sedation just masked the trembling and fear, inside they not only were afraid of the noise, but of their lack of control.

 

poppy, my saluki lurcher. luckily, seems bulletproof. noiseproof anyway. so far she's ignored any fireworks (there's some ijjut fireworks dealer just up the hill, so we get fireworks parties happening locally even when it's not an appropriate holiday. we had thunder and lightening last night when we went for the last walk/run in the courtyard. she ignored it completely, had a happy run around, pood then happy danced. and all was well with the world till the downpour came. she made a beeline to the door to go inside. and gave me a pitiful 'i'm melting!' look as i caught up. she does love being towelled off with her big doggy towel tho.

[Guest greygirls2]

I use the "Calming Collar" which is a collare made up of a mixture of calming herbs that works well for my two males. My female just recently became thunderphobic and while the calming collar helps it doesn't make all the anxiety go away so on advice from my homeopathic vet we have started using the tincture of the herb skullcap, 1ml a day and it's done wonders for her! He also recommended California Poppy and Passion flower but we haven't needed it so far. I didn't want to go the route of drugs like Xanax, Ace etc. so this has been very helpful for us.They are all organic and much safer than the drugs.The Thunder coat, Rescue remedy and melatonin didn't do a thing for her plus I was told to be careful with the melatonin because it is a hormone.

[GreyTzu]

The ThunderShirt is different from the Thunder coat.

[Guest chickenpotpie]

For Lucky, we use a liquid melatonin that Life Extension sells. My partner uses it for himself and when the thunder boomers come around, I use it for her too, as it tends to work quite fast. The other thing I do is put a towel over her head. Its kind of silly but it does seem to help. She also hates loud action movies (we have a pretty extensive movie theater setup), motorcycles, and fireworks. For movies she just goes to the other side of the house until its over. She used to really freak out about the train going by but I've worked with her on it and she doesn't jump out of her skin over it anymore.

 

Some of it you may be able to work on with them, some of it, not so much! This 4th of july I will be going to the vet to ask them for something for her because I seriously can't deal with another one like last year.

[Guest BlueCrab]

Our non-grey Leyland had problems with thunder while Trixie seemed completely unfazed. This year, suddenly, Trixie is terrified of thunderstorms. We had purchased a Thunder Shirt for Leyland - and went thru all of the proper training and acclimating - but Leyland hated it, so we shelved it. With Trixie this year I pulled the shirt back out and tried it on her and the difference has been huge. She's gone from lying at my feet quaking to going by herself back to her sofa and roaching thru storms - as long as she has the T Shirt on. Leyland has seemed to lessen his thunderstorm reaction as he's gotten older, so we've lucked out all around. Never had to try any drugs with these two, although we did have a lab/pointer mix who got severely panicked during storms and would do himself and those around him damage, so we put him on a sedative...Prozac I believe, but it was so long ago I can't recall exactly.