Truman... Super Frustrating, Embarrassing Behavior

[inugrey]

It was interesting to read about the adolescent switch in a few cases. I never thought of that being a "thing,"

 

I read this thread with interest because I have a not-so-greyhound greyhound and your description sounded a lot like Zoe. She was on 40mg of prozac and according to my vet, that is the high end. I also found that xanax had the opposite effect. I got her at 8, so didn't have the years of influence. I believe it is my job to keep her comfortable and happy rather than to work to train something that is so clearly a part of her personality. She is the best dog ever in my house, her "uncle's" house and in my neighborhood. We take her out of these three places and she's a tense unhappy dog. Therefore, I keep her world pretty small. Does it kind of suck that no one else knows how awesome she is? Yes. Does it totally suck to go to all these greyhound events with out a dog? Definitely. But at the same time I find without a dog who needs my constant attention I am able to really relax and socialize at the events.

 

The key thing is she is happy and content left at home.

[cleptogrey]

 

 

She's actually been much better recently. Once she hit the 2 1/2 year old mark she seemed to begin growing a brain - and ears! She still looks like a gigantic puppy though (she's 33 1/2 inches tall at the shoulder!), and she can have her moments, but we can see the light at the end of the maturity tunnel!

yes, brains do develop so very slowly....btw, felix is fine NOW...(he does need an occasion review, but then again) he's 7! my track dogs would never think of doing any of this. i got lucky w/ them, lucky w/ felix as well- i wouldn't trade him for anything. it's all in the experience.

 

yeah, the only word that got out about gh puppies is landsharks, we all know there is more to them than that. (saluki pups are even worse)

[greysmom]

I guess I jinxed myself. She dug a hole in our bed futon this morning when I was in the shower.

[krissy]

lol. There's a reason Kili still spends half her life in a crate.

[krissn333]

Clarice graduated out of her bedtime kennel but she is crated when I am not home. Thankfully she is happy to snooze on the couch while I take a shower and get ready for work in the morning.

 

She has also had some odd phases being crabby about being touched on her side near her tuck - if you stop your hand, she gets crabby about it. It's odd. I just keep doing it and when she DOESN'T get crabby, I give her a treat. She also had those vulva issues too though so I have always wondered if she was just plain sore and didn't want to be touched/was worried I'd put my arm under her tuck so I could examine her.

 

This is probably wayyy less than what you need for Truman, but, the Adaptil collar has been great for Clarice. She will be 2 years old on June 8th.

[a_daerr]

She has also had some odd phases being crabby about being touched on her side near her tuck - if you stop your hand, she gets crabby about it. It's odd. I just keep doing it and when she DOESN'T get crabby, I give her a treat.

Yes, exactly! He does not want to be touched on his sides. He'll immediately jump away if I try to touch him there. He growls and snaps if I force it and try to leave my hand there in a resting position. I tried counter-conditioning with treats, but no such luck. I stopped trying, otherwise I think he might bite me.

[krissn333]

Have you completely ruled out a sheath infection? Ozzie just had one and he was touchy if you touched him anywhere below the end of his ribcage. Didn't matter if you were actually anywhere near the sheath.

 

Ace also jumped at me once when she had a kidney infection and I touched her in that general area.

[a_daerr]

I doubt anything is medically wrong. He had a big, long incision on his belly when he was neutered because we also elected to have a gastropexy done. My guess is that it was painful/sensitive for awhile, so he decided then that he didn't want touched there. Now, he probably has no idea why he's doing it, but the snarky behavior is ingrained.

[Guest budsmom]

I doubt anything is medically wrong. He had a big, long incision on his belly when he was neutered because we also elected to have a gastropexy done. My guess is that it was painful/sensitive for awhile, so he decided then that he didn't want touched there. Now, he probably has no idea why he's doing it, but the snarky behavior is ingrained.

That makes a lot of sense. What they learn through fear is almost impossible to un-learn.

 

When you take him to events, have you ever tried a thundershirt? Some people have really great luck with them. Or try a Tellington T-touch class.

[a_daerr]

I've tried Thundershirt, Rescue Remedy, calming treats, and low dose Valium. I've tried pre-exercising him too. Not much difference.

[rascalsmom]

ETA: Jen, the only Reactive Rover I could find near us is the GROWL class at a place called Misty Pines. I've heard some bad reviews that the head trainer uses shock collars on the dogs' necks and genitals. They also do a dog boot camp where you send your dog away for a week to be trained. I don't believe in that stuff. Looks like I'm out of luck unless I can find something similar. I'll look into the Peaceful Paws weekend.

 

Also, are you going to Grapehounds VA? Any chance you'd want to evaluate him?

My brother took his Lab to Misty Pines for many, many training classes. He had nothing but praise for the place, and the staff.

[a_daerr]

Can someone help me to find out if there's legitimate veterinary behaviorist in my area? It seems that lots of people claim to be 'behaviorists,' but I'd prefer to have him evaluated by someone with an expertise in the pharmacology side of it too.

 

I'm using this website, but so far as I can tell, the only 'certified veterinary behaviorists' are all the way on the eastern part of PA. That would be about 4-5 hours away.

 

http://www.dacvb.org/resources/find/

[NeylasMom]

I've been meaning to look for you, and to post some additional thoughts, but just haven't had a chance. Will try to do that tomorrow.

[kronckew]

AKC? has he been neutered? if not, could be his raging teenage hormones. if not & if he's not being shown, he would benefit from neutering. if he is shown but not to be bred, he could be neutered & have prosthetic implants for show.

[krissy]

If I remember correctly Truman is already neutered. How old was he when he was neutered though, Alicia? Some of the newer evidence coming out is starting to link "early" neuter/spay with increased fear behaviours. The exact definition of "early" isn't totally clear yet... typically they mean around 6 months, but in some of the larger breeds that might mean upwards of a year. There is increasing evidence that dogs with problem behaviours related to fear may actually not benefit from being neutered and it may actually have a detrimental effect. That's not to say that it's only about the neuter... obviously there are genetic and environmental factors... just that neutering may not help the situation.

[cleptogrey]

Carlo Siracusa
DVM, MS, PhD, Dip. ACVB, Dip. ECAWBM
Animal Behavior Service
School of Veterinary Medicine
University of Pennsylvania
3900 Delancey St.
Philadelphia, PA 19104
United States
office tel: 215.898.6681
office fax: 215.573.7041
siracusa@vet.upenn.edu

 

i would go w/ someone who is w/ the u of p. how long did it take to get to GIG? how long to the Grapehounds(?) seneca lake? this could be a life changing trip, well worth the milage. also, if sececa lake is closer, then Cornell should have something even though it's not listed.

[Guest sireltonsmom]

Poor Truman living in fear all the time. So good you keep looking for the key to taking that fear away. Do you have a prison program for greyhounds in your area? I work with a group in the Sarasota area that has 'bootcamp' for dogs that have owners but need some help for their dogs' behavior. Bootcamp is NOT a negative way of training them. They get the same training by inmates as do the just off the racetrack doggies. These dogs are all loved and guided by the inmates to do basic commands - sit, down, stay, come, etc. Their health both physical and emotional are high priorities for the inmates. The 'bootcamp' dogs' families also get a manual of the training commands so they get trained also. We have dogs placed that are in group homes as therapy dogs, in a psychiatrist's office to be there for clients' comforting, in an autistic adult boy's home, and some just come home to us adopters (my Beau). Good luck and keep up the efforts. One day it will just be a memory or you both will have figured out how to live with it. It's worth the investment as you know.

[a_daerr]

Carlo Siracusa

DVM, MS, PhD, Dip. ACVB, Dip. ECAWBM

Animal Behavior Service

School of Veterinary Medicine

University of Pennsylvania

3900 Delancey St.

Philadelphia, PA 19104

United States

office tel: 215.898.6681

office fax: 215.573.7041

siracusa@vet.upenn.edu

 

i would go w/ someone who is w/ the u of p. how long did it take to get to GIG? how long to the Grapehounds(?) seneca lake? this could be a life changing trip, well worth the milage. also, if sececa lake is closer, then Cornell should have something even though it's not listed.

I wasn't sure about was the evaluation. The few doctors I'd contacted on the eastern side of PA wanted the evaluations done in our home. I'd be willing to travel- totally no problem- but they wouldn't be able to travel to me. I'll see what Penn has to say.

 

ETA: Truman was neutered at 12 months. Krissy, you might be onto something. He didn't have these types of fear problems prior to being neutered. It's almost like he got stuck.

Edited May 1, 2014 by a_daerr

[a_daerr]

I also wanted to mention, I had a long conversation with the vet last night about Truman. He mentioned the possibility that he could have a condition (I forget the exact terminology) that his sense receptors are hyper-sensitive. Meaning, it could be possible that he is hearing, seeing, and reacting to touch in exaggerated ways because he's sensing things more acutely than a normal dog would.

[Padfootx13]

I also wanted to mention, I had a long conversation with the vet last night about Truman. He mentioned the possibility that he could have a condition (I forget the exact terminology) that his sense receptors are hyper-sensitive. Meaning, it could be possible that he is hearing, seeing, and reacting to touch in exaggerated ways because he's sensing things more acutely than a normal dog would.

This sounds like sensory defensiveness in people. Is there an occupational therapy equivalent for dogs?

[a_daerr]

Id be interested to know that myself. It would explain a lot- he is distracted by everything. Always seems like he's overwhelmed, like a sensory overload.

[Padfootx13]

Id be interested to know that myself. It would explain a lot- he is distracted by everything. Always seems like he's overwhelmed, like a sensory overload.

Poor boy...that must make him (and you guys!) feel awful. FWIW, I don't think you have any reason at all to be embarrassed. You guys just have to figure out how to help him the best you can, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's admirable! And once you do figure it out he'll be an even better boy because of it.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Padfootx13

[greysmom]

I've often felt this way about my spooky girl Cash. She's not anxious because she sees/hears/senses too little, but because she sees and hears too much. It's very much like what happens with autistic children.

[Guest DeniseL]

Carlo SiracusaDVM, MS, PhD, Dip. ACVB, Dip. ECAWBMAnimal Behavior ServiceSchool of Veterinary MedicineUniversity of Pennsylvania3900 Delancey St.Philadelphia, PA 19104United Statesoffice tel: 215.898.6681office fax: 215.573.7041siracusa@vet.upenn.edu

 

i would go w/ someone who is w/ the u of p. how long did it take to get to GIG? how long to the Grapehounds(?) seneca lake? this could be a life changing trip, well worth the milage. also, if sececa lake is closer, then Cornell should have something even though it's not listed.

 

I will second Dr. Siracusa and his team at Penn. We took Miami there and they were wonderful. It is pricey but you get a lot of attention and time and three months of continuous follow up. They did not come to our house, either. Dr. Siracusa is in the Fox29 news clip of Miami that aired a few months back. They interviewed him. I posted it here a while back. He is awesome.

[Guest grey_dreams]

Zuki had strong leash reactivity. Part of his problem also arose because of his neuter - he smelled differently than the other dogs and especially male dogs reacted badly, so then he learned to be reactive toward them. One thing that really helped Zuki was acupuncture. It didn't "cure" him, but it obviously helped him relax and took a big edge off his anxiety level. We used it as part of our therapy plan, and it really helped Zuki a lot. T-Touch also helped him really a lot.