Thoughts On Anxiety Medication

[PatricksMom]

I wrote and deleted a really long post explaining things, but the long and the short of it is I think using some medication from now until we've moved into a house and settled him in (2 months from now) is our best option. I'm pretty sure he's having panic attacks when the dog across the hall starts barking and we're out and he's pretty stressed over it and all the other dogs in our apartment complex right now.

 

So, the vet's first choice would be Prozac, long-term. But she's fine with prescribing pretty much any of the benzodiazepines if that's what we want to try first too.

 

I'm leaning towards valium for probably 3 months while we continue working with him and get him settled into the new house, then try taking him off it and see if the new environment being so much less stressful is enough that he's okay. If that fails, then try the Prozac.

 

Thoughts?

[robinw]

I'm talking to my vet about putting Iker on some. I tried Clomicalm with him, but it really knocked him out and he stopped eating (too big a dosage?). I had been trying to avoid meds, but I think it is more important to live with a happy dog. I think our dogs would be much happier if they weren't scared and stressed all the time.

[Riverhound]

I say try something that gives immediate relief (Xanax, Valium) along with something like Prozac that needs time to build up. Heck, it's what my doctor is doing with me! Good luck with your pooch.

[Guest Giselle]

No matter what, make sure that you're training him. The medications are supposed to facilitate learning. If there isn't anything being taught, there's nothing to learn.

 

Anyhow, typically, you want a maintenance medication like prozac (fluoxetine) or clomicalm (clomipramine) to change the dog's neurotransmitter levels at the genetic level. It requires time to achieve maximum efficacy, but it changes at a fundamental genetic level. Valium (diazepam) is part of a class of drugs that is fast-onset and short-acting. It's best given as a precaution for an immediate fear-inducing situation, like a thunderstorm. There is also a risk of dependency, and this class of drugs has been suspected to cause paradoxical excitement (it has been observed to make behaviors like aggression worse). For your dog's chronic type of anxiety, I think you'd do better to put him on a long-term maintenance medication and to do it gradually!! Start at a half dose, then slowly build up to the full dose over 1-2 months. But, as always, make sure you're training him concurrently. Good luck!

[PatricksMom]

Thank you everyone for your feedback.

 

I've taken human clomipramine, it went very badly, and I'm reluctant to risk it in a dog who can't clearly communicate his feelings, just given what I've experienced. I've taken both SSRIs and Benzos, so I'm pretty familiar with the risks/benefits/general properties of the drugs. Our vet warned about the possibility of agitation, although she's only seen that in small dogs, not in the larger breeds.

 

We are working with him constantly and NeylasMoms suggestions have helped us make a lot of progress with his fear aggression (thank you again if you're reading), but we've been unable to find a good trainer and the two vets I've asked have said flat out there is no one they would recommend in this general area. What we aren't making any definitive progress on is his urination when left alone (usually ~1hr/day). And a yappy, agressive dog has moved in across the hall, which I think is making the situation much worse in the short term--he becomes obviously stressed just listening with us home. I live with panic attacks on a regular basis and I'm pretty sure Leo is having them, and that's not a situation I want a dog in.

 

I had initially thought about doubling up in the short run, but our vet is concerned we won't know what drugs is actually working, which I think is a good point, although Riverhound, you're right, I've had doctors do that with me.

 

I'm still mulling over what's right for Leo and I very much appreciate everyone's thoughts. Good thoughts for all of you who are living with stressed or unhappy dogs.

[robinw]

Have you contacted that trainer I told you about?

[PatricksMom]

Have you contacted that trainer I told you about?

I've ordered her book and read through her online stuff, we'll probably do the webinar next.

[MP_the4pack]

Meds react differently with different dogs. You probaby will have to try a few before something works for you. My Onyx had an adverse reaction to Valium. She was giving some at the vets, started screaming, slipped her collar and was running around the clinic. Luckily no other clients opened a door to the outside. Big note was put on her chart, NO VALIUM.

I had Jade on Clomicalm and she did ok on that but wasn't strong enough for her thunderphobia. So we tried all different typed of doggie prozac. Same kind of drug just slightly different. None helped with her phobia but increased her hunger to the point she was dangerous. She jumped into my lap to get a piece of food I was eating. It had not been offered to her at all. Also that meant that she could start eating/chewing anything in sight at home while I was at work. So we stopped all those.

 

So you will just have to see what works for your dog, and make sure you're home when you give him the first few doses.

[DonnaBehr]

I used Clomicalm and it worked on my guys, but I thought it's not made any longer?

[greysmom]

If you have tried the behavioral training suggested and are not making any progress, it may be time to try medication (concurrently with continued training, as Giselle suggested).

 

As you know, anti anxiety drugs work differently for different individuals. You may need to try several to find one that works for your boy. For our girl, we tried clomicalm, prozac, and one other one I always forget, before putting her on paxil, which has been a miracle for her. She gets that long term, with the addition of xanax for situational anxiety like storms.

 

Many people have recently begun to use the SARI drug called trazadone for their dogs with good results. It has mostly been used situationally, but in people it's a long-term drug prescribed liked SSRIs. It does need every 8 hour dosing though, instead of the once-a-day dosing like an SSRI. But it seems to have better control of anxiety with fewer side effects (less sedation mostly).

 

All of these drugs have addictive capabilities and will need to be discontinued gradually once you are in a less stressful environment. I would give them for several months after you move to make sure he is comfortable and stable in the new place.

[PatricksMom]

Many people have recently begun to use the SARI drug called trazadone for their dogs with good results. It has mostly been used situationally, but in people it's a long-term drug prescribed liked SSRIs. It does need every 8 hour dosing though, instead of the once-a-day dosing like an SSRI. But it seems to have better control of anxiety with fewer side effects (less sedation mostly).

Thank you for the advice. Our vet did not mention Trazadone and I didn't think to bring it up because it has such a heavy sedative effect on people--I've taken it myself for sleep issues. Do you know if dogs don't suffer from that effect?

[Guest DeniseL]

Miami is on 30mgs of Prozac daily. It was the best thing we ever did for him (and for us). He was fear aggressive and a nervous mess. Now he is happy, well adjusted and not nearly as fearful. He doesn't neurotically look for things to eat, although he still will lick the heck out of pretty much anything.

I am thinking about tryin to wean him off in the next few months, or at least cut back...I will talk to the vet next time we have to go with him for something.

Oh, he had no real side effects except some nausea the first day or two...and it seems to agree with him really well.

[macoduck]

I asked my vet for trazodone for Mazy for fireworks. I've never had a dog so terrified by fireworks before.

The dose is 1/2 of a 100mg pill. Mazy weighs 78 lbs.

To see how her body was reacting to it my vet had me give her a dose prior to a visit. I gave her the dose at 7:30. At her 8:30 appt she was calm and not whining/bouncing off the walls as is her norm. Vet checked her over - heart, respiration OK.

At exactly 3:30 it was as if a switch was flipped and she was back to her normal self.

While she was under the influence she was calm, quiet, happy wagging tail, did not act drugged, cooperated easily on leash and during the whole vet visit.

 

My vet didn't carry trazodone but at the human pharmacy it was really cheap.

For Mazy, I might only give her 1/4 pill instead of 1/2 during the next bad storm. The good thing about trazodone is that it can be given after the scary event has started and still work.

 

There can be side effects to watch for. Check out a thread by member a_daerr regarding her boy Truman's reaction most likely because he was already on prozac, paxil or something similar.

[greysmom]

Cash's reaction is much the same as Mazy's. She does not act sedated on a 50 mg dose (she weighs 72 lbs), but her anxiety is reduced to a managable level. One dose will last her enough of a 12 hour period that we don't usually have to redose her.

[Guest grey_dreams]

I started giving something to Zhivaya because, although his extreme fears did improve somewhat with time, he still only wanted to lay in his bed and was really afraid to go outside. I prefer not to have him "drugged up" - just something to help him relax and have less anxiety and fear. He's been doing so well now! He actually runs downstairs most times and is happy to go out. He no longer fears cars and trucks. He will even let people get fairly close to him before he gets anxious. We are still working on the sound of trains, which used to send him into a full-blown panic-attack emotional meltdown. Now, he prances and whines a little when he hears a train outside, but it's not even close to what happened before.

 

He weighs 80 pounds. This is what we've been using:

 

Theanine, 200 mg (Jarrow). He gets one capsule am right after breakfast and one capsule pm right after dinner.

Inositol, 750 mg (Jarrow). He gets one capsule am right after breakfast and one capsule pm right after dinner.

De-Stress (Biotics Research). He gets one capsule daily right after breakfast.

 

The inositol is really interesting. It has the same chemical formula as glucose, but a different three-dimensional structure. It is the precursor for many key signaling molecules in cells. During my research, I found that people are giving it to their kids who have autism and OCD, and apparently it is working very well for those children. When I started giving it to Zhivaya, I noticed a definite difference within about two days.

The De-Stress is the US version of Zylkene, which is made in Europe by Schering-Plough. Zylkene is a decapeptide isolated from milk, which has calming properties. I gave it to my crew (2 dogs and a cat) when we moved from Amsterdam to US. Zylkene was like a miracle for us. I think the De-Stress isn't as good. It's ok, but definitely not as good as Zylkene. It did help Zhivaya, and he's been getting it for about three months, but now we are starting to taper off it.

Theanine is isolated from green tea (the patented compound with special isolation protocol is called Suntheanine). It has documented anti-stress properties.

 

The theanine and inositol really don't have any side effects. They are not sedatives or psychotropic compounds. Zhivaya is doing really well, he is obviously much happier now than before, and he is better able to cope with life.

[Guest Houston1219]

I used Clomicalm and it worked on my guys, but I thought it's not made any longer?

Still available for human use! Honestly large majority of it that we sell is my pharmacy is for canine patients!