New Greyhound - Partial Seizure

[Guest Amber]

Hi everyone

I adopted my new greyhound girlie, 2 year old Fey less than two weeks ago. She's settled in great in the home, a little anxious and 'green' out on walks, and doesn't like the car but otherwise, doing well.

 

Two nights ago at midnight, she started acting really strange and this went on until 2 am - seeming to 'look' and watch at something that wasn't there, very restless, pacing and pacing, frightened and stumbling on the stairs. I thought that she had gone blind.

 

Eventually I settled her down and we both got some much needed sleep. So the next day I took her to the vet for a check up and she seems healthy but the vet thought her funny turn was likely either behavioural ie a panic attack or a partial seizure.

 

She was fine the next day, maybe little more on edge than normal. In the house, although she's not been here long, she is super chilled out and relaxed, so it's hard to believe it was purely a stress panic attack.

 

I've owned greyhounds before as pets, but never encountered any seizures.

 

The vet said not to worry as it may not happen again, or if it does, maybe not for weeks or months, but just wondered what I should expect?

 

Maybe this partial seizure was brought on by the stress of being rehomed? It was really scary at the time, as I didn't know what was wrong with her.

 

Would this be likely to escalate into full seizures? And what should I do if that happens?

 

Thanks!

 

[greysmom]

There's really no way to know. Your vet might be right - this could be a one-off due to stress or something environmental. Or it could be the first of a series. You just won't know until one happens or one doesn't. There isn't a good way to diagnose them unless you're willing to pay for an MRI, which may or may not show anything wrong.

 

It sounds like it possibly *could* have been a focal seizure. Write down now, while you can still remember, all the details you can - date, time, duration, behavior, activities before and after, even if she ate or got into anything during the 24 hours prior. This is a seizure log and most neurologists will appreciate having a timeline to help them see what might be happening.

 

If she does have another one: keep her safe, above all else. She may or may not be aware of what she's doing and where she's doing it. Keep her away from stairs and drop offs. She might want to pace or do some other activity obsessively - this is normal post-ictal (after the seizure) behavior and you really can't do much except ride it out. You can try and put an ice pack on the back of her head - keeping her cool will help. Also, you can give her some plain, full fat, vanilla ice cream. Seizures create a lot of heat and burn calories like mad, so the ice cream helps keep her from suffering low blood sugar.

 

She won't be medicated for her seizures until they come closer together than 6 weeks, OR more than one in a day (clustering). At that point, she needs to be under the care of veterinary neurologist, at least for initial diagnosis and treatment. Most regular vets don't have the in depth, up to date knowledge to treat seizure dogs adequately.

 

They are *really* hard to watch them go through, but they also really need your calmness afterwards. They aren't aware during the "active" phase of a seizure, and can become scared and anxious when they come back to themselves. Good luck in the future.

[macoduck]

Videotape her when she has an episode to show your vet.

[Hawthorn]

Firstly, congratulations on your new family member!

 

My girl Sophie has partial seizures. They started after a head injury when she was 3 and she's now 9. Some of what you describe with Fey sounds similar. Sophie's seizures seem to affect several of her senses, so the behaviour she exhibits during a seizure can vary, from appearing afraid of the ceiling, or fly-biting, or gum-chewing, or nibbling her skin as if she has unusual sensations, or sometimes it appears that she can smell an unusual smell. One thing is always present, though, and that is fear. Sophie is fully aware during these episodes so I can interact with her and can sometimes stop the seizure by taking her for a walk round the garden or giving her some food.

 

I also have valium from my vet - 10mg will stop seizure activity in Sophie in about 20 minutes. I would not want to be without this and would suggest you consider asking your vet if you can have some in case it happens again.

 

Videotaping an episode is very good advice, as is the suggestion to keep a detailed log. Through doing this, I discovered two things that triggered seizures in Sophie: Frontline spot-on and Thuja. I've never identifed stress as a trigger for Sophie, but triggers are likely different for each dog.

 

Sophie used to have these seizures every couple of weeks, but they have gradually got less frequent. I just checked my log and it's been almost 10 months since her last seizure, which is the longest she's been seizure-free (excuse me for a moment whilst I do a small celebration dance! ) So now I'm wondering if the fact that I've been detoxing my house over the last few months ie gradually changing over to toxin-free household cleaners and toiletries etc has something to do with this.

 

Anyway, I think your vet is right to say to not worry about it just yet, as it may never happen again. In the meantime, just be aware, start a log and enjoy your new girl.

[scullysmum]

As other have said, it could be a "one off", here's hoping it is. If not then do keep a diary and video her if possible.

[cleptogrey]

just wait and see. just mark your calendar when one occurs. if it's non-stop then meds might be in order and you will have a record. my welsh terrier had seizures, pretty infrequent. he even was in the middle of one when our 11 year old dog walker came to get him. she figured it out, all were just fine. we just let nature take it's course, he lived to 15. if the seizures increase in both duration and frequency then a plan of action may be necessary. congrats on your new pup.

[Guest Fiona]

I don't know if this helps but it may have been behavioural as one of my dogs Ben has this sort of attack every so often. He will be sound asleep and then wake as if from a very nasty dream, his tail goes down and he acts afraid and lost. When we first had him he had serveral incidents, it was as if he awoke and could not reconcile where he was. He had a minor attack just before Christmas, we had been moving our dinning room furniture around as we had 8 coming for dinner on Christmas day. The table had to be moved to a more convenient postion; what makes me wonder if Fay's might be a behavioural incident is that Ben woke from his usual deeeeep sleep and panicked. The room looked different and I am sure he could not relate to the change. After about half an hour he settled downl. He had not had a panic for over a year until this one. You have only had Fay for 2 weeks, I can only imagine what it must be like to wake with a start and find nothing really familiar. Hope she goes on ok.

[Guest Amber]

An update- i mentioned to the vet after the initial and he said to wait and see if it happened again. A whole year went by with no problems and then in jan 2015 another one. Between jan and now i think a couple more spaced out by 2 months . But yesterday, a cluster of three in 24 hours and the aftermath of the one last night lasted 1 hour, usually they're over after 15, 20 mins.

 

Normally they happen in the dead of night and she is fine again the next day so I'm afraid I've not been good about noting dates, or taking action, but yesterday was prertty bad.

 

Not sure what happens from here, maybe meds?

 

I don't know what could've triggered it, the only thing different was she had a couple of pigs ears .

[tbhounds]

First thing you need to do is have her seen by your vet. You would need to run blood work--a chemistry, CBC, urinalysis and a thyroid panel (not just a T4).

Write the events down now while they are fresh in your mind. This might sound extreme but, after seeing your GP vet you might consider seeing a veterinary neurologist.

[MaryJane]

Also, try and remember if you were using any different household cleaners as certain scents can be a trigger.

 

If 3 seizures happened in 24 hours, then meds are needed ASAP. There are different meds that are used and each has it's pros and cons - a neurologist can explain the differences and you can decide which one suits.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY - you need to get rectal valium or some other cluster buster ASAP. This would be used after the 1st seizure and would hopefully keep the next one from happening too soon after the previous. If you don't already know, "status epilecticus" can occur which is non-stop seizures and is a life threatening event. The rectal valium gives you options and would also (hopefully) allow you enough time to get to the hospital.

 

My Lucy has had seizures for 5 years now and is on 3 meds for the seizures (Keppra, Zonisamide, and Sodium Bromide) along with rectal valium after each seizure. The 1st year of the seizures was not bad, then for 2 1/2 years it was tough going but, that settled once we found the right cocktail mix and it has been decent for the last 1 1/2 years.

 

Good luck.

[gryhndsr4us]

Also check your food for rosemary, many dog foods have this and it can cause seizures.

http://www.thedogpress.com/DogFood/Rosemary-Neurotoxin-10032_Liquorman.asp

[Guest Amber]

Sorry meant to say, i had phoned the vet before i posted this a.m. and we got an appt. So he ran bloods and they are all ok. He wasn't going to start her on drugs right away, was going to let me think over the weekend whether to start on the epilepsy drug or get an MRI done first.

 

But after the cluster yesterday i wanted her started on something straight away, so she got her 1st dose of 300mg of pexion at 5pm today and she just finished another seizure that began ay 10.00pm tonight, 30 mins post ictal phase. But it did seem less intense, i coukd 'get through' to her, she ate some treats and did a few sits and seemed to come out of it for a few mins, then back into the pacing and confusion. She also peed on the floor.

 

So i will phone the vet on the emergency number tomorrow and see if he says to increase the dosage,

 

He didn't mention anything about other drugs in addition, or valium for an emergency. So should i ask for that?

 

Funnily enough i HAVE been using a new kitchen surface cleaner, dettol kitchen cleaner. My usual asda own brand one wasn't on the shelf. And i only opened and started cleaning with it Thursdayi think. Ugh. Ok i will bin that, just in case.

[Guest Amber]

Oh no. 10pm seizure was followed by 12am, 3am and possibly another at around 5 (was so exhausted by then, in a deep sleep).

 

I've taken unilateral decision to increase meds to 400mg for first 7am dose, as it's a bit early to phone e vet on a Sunday. He mentioned she may need upped to 400mg. I will phone at 8.30 and report this, i was really concerned last night at seizures every 2 hours.

 

I'm a bit shocked that he was going to send us home yesterday with no meds at all. I think they seem to be reducing the severity of the post ictal symptoms, does that mean less severe seizures?

 

I don't know how these drugs work, is it a build up in the body or do they work straight away?

 

Poor Fey looks exhausted and me too

Edited June 28, 2015 by Amber

[tbhounds]

To be honest I feel your dog should be hosptiazed and on a Valium drip. Clustering seizures are not to be fooled with.

[Guest Amber]

 

 

Well, i managed to get an anti convulsant Levetiracetam on Sunday, though i had to be quite assertive to get it - despite 4 seizures every 2 hours through the night, the vet said i should just monitor her through the day and call back if she seized again! It was a no brainer that the clusters were going to get worse the next night, surely? Why would i want to drive across town to get emergency meds at midnight and have to leave her alone duringa seizure. So i said i would feel more comfortable getting additional meds straight away and he agreed.

 

So even on the two drugs, she still had one seizure last night but it only lasted 5 or 10 mins. I was anxious that she still had one at all on the anti convulsant and phoned in but vet said that was progress in the right direction.

 

This is not the senior vet at the practice who we normally see, but this one happened to be on duty. So I'm wondering if i should switch her epilepsy care to our usual vet, as i don't feel this one acted promptly enough in prescribing the emergency anti convulsant. He ought i think to have given that on Saturday morning. It can only be given for 3 days, so after that maybe i need to ask for valium in case of more clusters.

[greytpups]

Yes, copy the important points down from this thread so you have them with you (in case you forget what to ask) and see your reg vet asap. If he/she doesn't do anything differently for Amber's care, get a second opinion asap.

[carronstar]

To be honest I feel your dog should be hosptiazed and on a Valium drip. Clustering seizures are not to be fooled with.

 

I second this. I lost my Morgaine to status epilepticus. Her first, and last known seizure activity.

[Guest Amber]

So there was no seizure last night, she is still on the anti convulsant for another day, then off. I spoke to the vet and they will give me a supply of the cluster buster, in case she clusters again when only on the Pexion. Vet check up with my regular vet Thursday.

 

I'm not sure if the Levetiracetam is less effective than valium for seizures or the same, does anyone know? The vet just said it was a more modern drug but did the same thing. Should i try to get valium as well?

 

I'm not sure whether to complain about the lack of drug intervention on Saturday, which in effect led to seizures every 2 hours. I didn't have time to read up on things but even i knew clusters are a bad thing to allow to happen.

 

My other big worry is going on holiday 13 July and fey is booked into kennels. I really don't want to leave her in a kennel with this problem, plus if she IS sensitive to chemicals, kennel disinfectant cleaning stuff could be bad.

[macoduck]

Perhaps this could also help:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/icepack.htm

[MaryJane]

You probably don't want your dog on Pexion as there have been numerous issues noted by dogs using it especially in combination with another drug. There was a petition circulated requesting that the drug manufacturer do more testing. Check out some of the FB dog seizure pages for more information or do a google search. Your dog would be better on Zonisamide or Sodium Bromide to start .. or maybe generic Keppra. There is Phenobarb but, there is an possibility of liver damage if bloods are not monitored carefully while the dog is on the meds.

 

Keppra as a cluster buster is not fast acting enough - you need to get rectal valium and at the correct dosage. Rectal valium is pretty much immediate effect but, does not last long in the body. My Lucy weighs about 70 pounds and she gets 16ml of a 5mg/ml solution rectally after each seizure (up to 3 per day). It is enough to zonk her out.

 

After a dog has seizures, they may deplete some of their sugar and I usually give Lucy some real ice cream like Hagen Daas (no funny sugars) to help restore the sugar balance - just a few teaspoons.

[MaryJane]

I just noticed that you said she was going to be kenneled July 13th. Not a great idea because she is not stable yet - could have problems. Also, there might not be anyone at the kennel overnight. Is there a friend that the dog could stay with instead or maybe at a greyhound adoption group... .

 

 

edited to add -- you also have to be careful when she is with other dogs. If she starts to seize, the other dogs may attack and try to kill her. This would not be good if she goes into a kennel where there are loose dogs in a yard.

Edited July 1, 2015 by MaryJane

[Guest Amber]

Thanks. I've cancelled the kennels already, i didn't think it was sensible for her . The vet had said it wouldn't be a problem to have her in kennels !

 

will go see our usual vet tomorrow, but it's difficult to tell your vet what drugs to give, when my info is from the internet and they are qualified vets. I wonder if U.S. vets are more aggressive in the drug treatment and consider clusters to be an emergency, whereas UK vets , or at least the one i saw, don't view clusters as so serious. I wonder if it's because it wasn't grand mal tthat he didn't bother treating her immediately.

I found all the articles on clusters written by (American ) vets prescribe rectal or IV valium...which is obv also the emergency treatment of choice for humans too.

 

She seems to be doing fine on pexion so far, no side effects. But I'll Google it, i don't used FB.

[MaryJane]

Thanks. I've cancelled the kennels already, i didn't think it was sensible for her . The vet had said it wouldn't be a problem to have her in kennels !

 

will go see our usual vet tomorrow, but it's difficult to tell your vet what drugs to give, when my info is from the internet and they are qualified vets. I wonder if U.S. vets are more aggressive in the drug treatment and consider clusters to be an emergency, whereas UK vets , or at least the one i saw, don't view clusters as so serious. I wonder if it's because it wasn't grand mal tthat he didn't bother treating her immediately.

I found all the articles on clusters written by (American ) vets prescribe rectal or IV valium...which is obv also the emergency treatment of choice for humans too.

 

She seems to be doing fine on pexion so far, no side effects. But I'll Google it, i don't used FB.

 

 

Some dogs seem to do well on Pexion as an only drug - the issue seems to be if you need to add another seizure med - it appears not to play nice with other meds.

 

US vets are also not sure how to classify clusters. Some will not prescribe any cluster-buster med and expect you to go to the ER vet. Others (like my Lucy's neurologist), are happy if you plan to control the clusters at home if feasible to do so and will prescribe cluster-busters like rectal valium. They do expect that if there are more than 3 seizures in a 24 hour period that you will head for the ER.

 

You can probably use the Keppra as a cluster-buster but, it takes longer to have an effect so, maybe a mixture if both rectal valium and keppra would work as I don't think you are likely to get the proper dosage of rectal valium from the UK vets.

[Guest Amber]

Ok thanks. Is keppra the same as Levetiracetam?

 

No seizure last night and she seems excellent on the pexion, like her old usual self.

 

We don't have an ER for animals. Procedure for primary emergency care would be for the dog to be kept in onsite and treated at the normal vet's surgery , if a pet needed a drip etc. Then on in, if the condition was considered beyond their expertise referral to a specialist, which could include residential care at a veterinary school, whilst the health issue was investigated or treated. But only the large cities have vet schools, my nearest is 150 miles away.

 

So i would have thought reg vet would or should know how to treat clusters and what dosage of valium to give in an emergency.

 

I suppose what I'm not really clear on is how critical is it to prevent a second seizure, if she has one? Rectal valium straight away after first seizure? Because she clustered before, is it probable she will again when she has a seizure?

 

Just had a brief look online last night and there were a few reports of UK patients having 9, 10 seizures in a 24 period, seemingly without receiving extra emergency drugs. I would have rushed the dog to the vet after 5, but it sounds like 3 is the limit before getting emergency treatment.

 

So the question really is whether my vet will allow me to home treat clusters properly with rectal valium.

[Guest Amber]

Well I'm really confused now. Went to the vet and he thought that they weren't really serious because they are only partial seizures. He said the epilepsy drugs don't do anything for them, tho pexion may help, as it's so new it's not really known if it helps partial seizure.

 

He wasn't convinced that the keppra stopped the clusters - but having seen the one she had whilst on keppra on Sunday night i am 90% convinced that it was the keppra that commuted it to a 10 minute single episode, instead of clusters. I could see the way she was drugged up/ sedated and how it stopped the seizure.

 

he says partials even in clusters are not dangerous and even wants to stop the pexion soon to see what happens, as he suspects it won't be having much effect. Well it would be good if this cluster episode was fairly isolated and she doesn't need drugs for life, so i will go along with that in a few weeks when I get back from holiday.

 

But he did still give me the rectal valium and keppra in case of anything horrible happening, so that's good.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Amber