Disciplining Another Dog?

[Guest kkaiser104]

This has the potential to be longwinded, but I'll try to keep it short.

 

My roommate S has a puppy, 4.5 month old Sammy. He's a red bone hound mix and is the sweetest thing...usually. This week I think we've hit the terrible twos, and Sammy is being an absolute pest. Chewing up shoes, papers, containers, running out the door, and pottying in the house. Now, I know how to handle Sammy's discipline, and so do both of my roommates. What I don't know how to handle is disciplining Sammy around Teddi. If Sammy's chewing on a shoe, for example, of course I'm going to discipline him right then and there (normally in our living room). If Teddi's around, though, he gets upset and runs to his bed and lays down. I feel awful for upsetting him, but the puppy has to be disciplined too! Any suggestions? We try to give Teddi positive attention after we discipline Sammy but sometimes he just seems so upset.

[JAJ2010]

Rainy used to get upset when anyone got in trouble.... That didn't last long when Sunshine arrived on scene y! She's always in trouble! Teddy will get over it. Just keep telling him that he's a good boy and give him some extra cookies ;-)

[MaryJane]

Are you saying "Sammy, NO" or just "NO"?

 

While there are likely to be some dissenters because the name is being used, when you have more than one dog - you have to be able to identify which dog is being disciplined. My new dog is still catching on but, my other two are pretty aware of "who is getting disciplined".

[GeorgeofNE]

What Mary Jane said.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about Teddi's reaction. It's pretty normal and not going to scar him emotionally!

[Batmom]

How is the puppy being "disciplined"?

 

There really shouldn't be anything going on that would upset another dog. Interrupt ("Aah-aaaaaaaah!") and redirect (take outdoors, remove inappropriate toy and give appropriate one, etc.).

[Guest kkaiser104]

Thanks for the comments. I think Teddi is just SUPER sensitive to this and I'm sure he'll get over it. I just didn't know if there was something to help him along.

 

Batmom--he gets upset at the interruption. The second we say "Sammy, no!" Teddi runs for his bed. We don't dare say "Aah-aaah", because then neither dog understands who's being disciplined. We have to use their names (not that Teddi needs much discipline...it's hard to get in trouble while laying in a bed all day

[christinepi]

Is there a way to set up Sammy for success some more rather than having to discipline him a lot? Just a thought.

[Brandiandwe]

I agree with always using names. It took my two a little time, but now the one being disciplined knows it, and the other one gets an annoyingly smug look on her face.

[Batmom]

Stop using "dog's name + no." All you want is an interrupt. "Aah" and "uh-uh" (not loud or angry) usually work well, without traumatizing anybody. The important part is what follows the interrupt. Christinepi has a good thought as well -- could help quite a bit to protect the door area so dog can't run out it, remove things that shouldn't be chewed, take the puppy out at least hourly when awake, etc.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Batmom

[Hubcitypam]

Stop using "dog's name + no." All you want is an interrupt. "Aah" and "uh-uh" (not loud or angry) usually work well, without traumatizing anybody.

My favorite is "AAACK".

 

However, In 2001 I found a stray in the Lubbock K-Mart parking lot. He was the color of a West Texas sandstom and I named him Dusty. For some reason when he did something wrong I'd snap out "POODLE"!!!! He was such a hellion that soon that was what he answered to...11 years later he still does.

[jetcitywoman]

Besides all this good advice, I want to come back to the "reaching the terrible two's" comment. There is no such thing in dogs. They have immature puppy behavior starting as puppies and then they grow out of it as they become adults. If he used to be fairly good, but now he's showing more chewing and other destructive puppy behavior, that's a problem that needs to be corrected. He's bored or upset. Get him into obedience class. Is he lonely or bored at home? Get him some approved toys or Kong's to while away the time when you guys are gone. If he's a working breed, teach him a job to do.

[Fruitycake]

You need to give him something TO chew on, something he is rewarded FOR doing, instead of waiting for him to do something wrong and punishing him for it. There are probably thousands of things you don't want him to do in the house, and by leaving things like shoes and stuff you don't want him chewing up within his reach you are simply asking for him to try them out. I agree with jetcitywoman - get things for him to do, get him trained to do fun things, get him tired and teach him what things are fun and good for him to do and he won't need to come up with options that look like fun to him (and then get yelled at), or do something, anything that will get attention from the people around him because he's bored. He needs to be noticed and rewarded all the time for doing what you want him to do, because lying there being a lump (as greyhounds so frequently do) is not in itself rewarding for this dog. So you must pay attention when you are the least likely to pay attention and reward him not being bad.

 

And the "terrible twos" I don't think is really a myth, it is just a term for the stage at which mobility and the ability to actually get to things and destroy them has outstripped the environmental preparation. The environment here has to be tailored to reduce his ability to get in trouble, and that means retraining the humans in the house to not set him up to fail. He's probably working on his second set of teeth, so he's going to be chewing on everything he can. We expect it with tiny puppies when their initial teeth grow in, but the same thing happens when the adult teeth come in too. Dogs don't sit there and play "wiggle the tooth" as kids do, and chewing is like that for dogs:

 

from http://www.puppy-basics.com/puppyteeth.html

 

Puppy's First Adult Teeth

 

Around the third or fourth month, a puppy's first adult teeth begin growing. The incisive teeth come in at the third to fifth month, the incisive extreme teeth come in at the fifth month, the canine teeth (fangs) come in between the fifth and sixth month, the premolars between the third, fourth, fifth and sixth month. Teething for most young dogs begins to stop around the six month.

[Guest kkaiser104]

Thanks to everyone who answered my initial question, which was in concern for my greyhound. We know Sammy is a puppy, and we do give him lots of things to chew on and practice positive reward training. We don't "wait around and punish him when he does something bad", as many of you have suggested. Please don't assume you know our training techniques unless you're living in my house

 

Sammy did great last night--so I think this is just something that is going to come and go with him as he grows up and out of his puppyhood. For the time being, he's going to be crated when we can't watch him for a second and we'll just have to wait it out. He'll figure it all out!

 

And just because he's adorable...

 

 

Untitled by Katelyn Kaiser, on Flickr

[Fruitycake]

I know I was not implying that you are just waiting for him to be bad. I'm sorry if it sounded that way.

 

It's just so darned easy with a lazy greyhound to get used to them lying there and being happy to lie in their bed that puppies are a whole different ball of wax. I personally cannot deal with puppies, because they are so into things and it is so hard to remember that every single second the dog isn't doing anything wrong is a rewardable experience. Because we can't always be watching and noticing things that aren't going wrong - it just isn't in our nature so we really have to have something like an internal alarm that goes off every few minutes that says "if there is nothing wrong with the behavior of puppy, we have to reward him."

 

It is like doing routine things. Do you remember every single footstep that you took across the room? If not, you probably didn't trip, didn't step on anything painful, didn't spontaneously fall over, didn't bash your shin on the coffee table, didn't break your ankle.... But you didn't notice your not doing all of those things, because we expect and hope for that to happen. It's a different kind of thinking, and it's hard. It's hard to constantly be on watch for everything done right (even when you're actively doing a training session it can be hard!).

 

...

 

As for my main point, if he's doing things that you don't want like chewing things up, you humans have to adjust the environment to make those items that he wants to chew (everything) out of his reach. Shoes go into bedrooms or closets with doors closed, always. Papers are not left on the floor, ever. Watch out for books, too, those are pretty tasty (so thought Spud, the 14 month old puppy we babysat for 1.5 months).

 

If he's dashing out the door, can you have an "airlock" system in place? Is there a porch where you can have one door always closed when the other is open? Or the possibility to use a babygate to keep him from accessing the doors directly unless he's on a leash? (We have the airlock system in both front and back - front is blocked by babygate and back is a porch, but our house is arranged so this is possible. We also have 3 babygates in our house!)

 

As for the pottying in the house, I think your solution of kenneling when you're not there is the right course of action. Also blocking off rooms where he can be out of sight when you are there is a good idea. And he sounds like a smart boy, so maybe you can get or make a "potty bell" for him to ring if he has to go out. Spud had that, and he used it very well at his people's house to ask. And no matter if you walk him or have a fenced in yard, you're going to have to watch him and reward him when he potties - and don't let him in until he does. If you can, try to train him to a word or phrase to indicate what you want him to do ("go pee" or "go potty" worked for our first dog, "hurry up" worked for Spud within a week of our bringing him into our house).

Edited September 8, 2012 by Fruitycake

[Guest kkaiser104]

I know I was not implying that you are just waiting for him to be bad. I'm sorry if it sounded that way.

 

It's just so darned easy with a lazy greyhound to get used to them lying there and being happy to lie in their bed that puppies are a whole different ball of wax. I personally cannot deal with puppies, because they are so into things and it is so hard to remember that every single second the dog isn't doing anything wrong is a rewardable experience. Because we can't always be watching and noticing things that aren't going wrong - it just isn't in our nature so we really have to have something like an internal alarm that goes off every few minutes that says "if there is nothing wrong with the behavior of puppy, we have to reward him."

 

It is like doing routine things. Do you remember every single footstep that you took across the room? If not, you probably didn't trip, didn't step on anything painful, didn't spontaneously fall over, didn't bash your shin on the coffee table, didn't break your ankle.... But you didn't notice your not doing all of those things, because we expect and hope for that to happen. It's a different kind of thinking, and it's hard. It's hard to constantly be on watch for everything done right (even when you're actively doing a training session it can be hard!).

 

...

 

As for my main point, if he's doing things that you don't want like chewing things up, you humans have to adjust the environment to make those items that he wants to chew (everything) out of his reach. Shoes go into bedrooms or closets with doors closed, always. Papers are not left on the floor, ever. Watch out for books, too, those are pretty tasty (so thought Spud, the 14 month old puppy we babysat for 1.5 months).

 

If he's dashing out the door, can you have an "airlock" system in place? Is there a porch where you can have one door always closed when the other is open? Or the possibility to use a babygate to keep him from accessing the doors directly unless he's on a leash? (We have the airlock system in both front and back - front is blocked by babygate and back is a porch, but our house is arranged so this is possible. We also have 3 babygates in our house!)

 

As for the pottying in the house, I think your solution of kenneling when you're not there is the right course of action. Also blocking off rooms where he can be out of sight when you are there is a good idea. And he sounds like a smart boy, so maybe you can get or make a "potty bell" for him to ring if he has to go out. Spud had that, and he used it very well at his people's house to ask. And no matter if you walk him or have a fenced in yard, you're going to have to watch him and reward him when he potties - and don't let him in until he does. If you can, try to train him to a word or phrase to indicate what you want him to do ("go pee" or "go potty" worked for our first dog, "hurry up" worked for Spud within a week of our bringing him into our house).

 

Thanks for the advice. It's stressful for me, because this is NOT my puppy. He's my roommates. It's hard to train a puppy when he isn't yours, you know? I've got Teddi very well trained, and he knows to stay away from the doors when they're opened and has never tried to chew on anything that wasn't a toy. I think right now our plan is to eliminate situations where Sammy will get into trouble (not ever leaving him out of our sight, for example) and continue to work on training him to do "good" things. We have a porch, so we're going to look into getting a babygate to block it off from the parking lot (which we share with 4-5 other houses). We had thought about doing this when we brought Teddi home but he trained so easily that we never did.

[NeylasMom]

You shouldn't have to discipline him at all. Teach him a "give" cue and when he's chewing on something inappropriate ask him to give it, then give him something appropriate to chew on. If he's having accidents, he may need to go back to potty training 101, which is free time only if he's fully emptied out beforehand and only for a limited amount of time before he's taken out again or given a break in the crate. Or keep him tethered to a human.

 

I have a now 11 month old mixed breed in my house and I have found that the chewing and other bad behaviors escalate when she has not had enough stimulation. Long walks aren't enough for her, she needs really energetic romps off lead in a large area several times a week, as well as doggie playdates with dogs her size who will play with her more enthusiastically than she and Violet are able to do in my house. Training also helps a LOT - it really tires her puppy brain. The evenings after we came home from obedience class last month were AWESOME. She would just sack out - it was so blissfully peaceful...

Edited September 10, 2012 by NeylasMom

[Guest TBSFlame]

I must say my hounds have taught me to be neat. If I don't leave stuff out it will not get chewed up.