Foot Fungus

[CherylB]

I have reached a new level of frustration with treating my 6-year old grey Remy for a foot fungus. I'm posting here in hopes that someone out there has had a similar experience and can offer advice. Here's a recap of Remy's story:

 

Back in June, we noticed redness on one of Remy's lower legs and foot. It wasn't bad, just a little red and it didn't seem to bother him at all. Our regular vet tried a couple of different antibiotics, thinking it was skin infection. Antibiotics had no affect. He didn't lick at or bother the area.

 

In July, we started seeing a skin specialist, and because of a false negative on a fungal test went through a series of even more treatments with no affect. Finally, we did a consult with a human dermatologist in November, who suggested a second fungal culture and it came back positive. I was so happy that after all that time we had a diagnosis and that's we'd finally be able to help him get better. He still never licks at the leg, but by this time, the inflammation had gotten much worse and a secondary infection caused sores between his toes and made him reluctant to put weight on the leg. I hate that we wasted so much time. If we had only figured it out sooner, we could have been well on our way to curing it.

 

Initial treatment was fluconazole plus clindamycin for the infection and prednisone to get him through the initial stages. We also started using a topical antifungal, ResiKetochlor. He immediately started to look better, but apparently it was only because of the prednisone. As soon as the prednisone was finished, the inflammation came back and looked as bad or worse at the original site. And, it was spreading to his other foot.

 

So, we switched treatment to generic Lamisil, continuing the topical and clindamycin, and applying a antibiotic/anti-fungal ointment to the infected area between his toes. The results were pretty much the same: better at first, then back to looking inflamed. The infection between the toes appears to be healing, but slowly. This treatment plan will have been in place two weeks this coming Friday, and the vet says it can take two weeks to see results. In the meantime, my poor boy doesn't feel good and looks awful. (See pic below, taken yesterday.) l I spend a lot of time worrying and wondering if there's something else we can be doing. Are the drugs we are giving just not effective on greyhounds? I know some antibiotics just didn't work on one of my previous hounds, and we had to experiment until we found the right one for her.

 

We do have an appointment with a holistic vet coming up next week to talk about immune system support and perhaps other non-pharmaceutical treatment options. I have read about other home remedies, but am reluctant to try them for fear that I'll do more harm than good.

 

If you've gotten this far, thanks for reading. Any advice you have would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Cheryl

 

[KF_in_Georgia]

Sorry. No help from me...unless shared misery is helpful.

 

Silver was picked up as a stray by animal control in Coweta County, Georgia, in July. She had a skin irritation on her front left leg. Skin scrapings cleared her of suspicion of having mange, mites, and other ickies. The AC vet put her on Simplecef and Predinisone, which didn't help.

 

I adopted Silver in August. The local rescue group's vet put her on Cephalexin and Prednisone. No improvement, even temporarily. With my own vet, we've tried hydrocortisone spray (Biogen) and antihistamines (Claritin or Benadryl). No help. And we waited around for a while for local pollen counts to drop. At present, she's midway through a 30-day course of doxycycline (she coincidentally has a throat inflammation). Since doxycycline has anti-inflammatory properties as well as antibiotic, the vet hoped the doxy would be helpful for the leg. So far, it's not. In fact, things might be worse.

 

Unlike your Remy's inflammation, Silver's itches. Constantly. The poor girl is muzzled nearly 24 hours a day. Sometimes she'll go a couple of hours without licking or scratching (if she's distracted by something else...or asleep), but if she's unmuzzled and attacks the itch she'll have her leg looking like raw hamburger in about three minutes. When she's muzzled, she scrapes the muzzle up and down the leg--or she just scratches her leg raw with the toes of her back left foot. We tried putting a shin-guard around the leg to keep her from scratching: she stood up, the guard slipped down to her foot, and I swear she laughed at me as she went back to scratching.

 

Since Silver scratches, the vet wondered about something behavioral. She needed clomipramine to deal with separation anxiety, and it would have been helpful for her leg--if the problem had been behavioral--but it hasn't helped.

 

At the end of this round of doxy, I plan to pull Silver off all commercial food and treats. I'll put her on a diet of, say, turkey and potato for a couple of weeks and see if there's any change. If the leg improves, we then can investigate food allergies. And I may ask my vet to run the skin tests again; since the first test was done by AC's vet, we don't have the records to know exactly what was tested, and it may be worthwhile to try again.

 

By the way--where do you live? Remy's problem started in June; Silver's problem was well underway by mid-July. If you're in the Deep South, maybe our babies have contracted some sort of regional crud.

 

Silver's leg...on a good day

Edited December 27, 2011 by KF_in_Georgia

[Batmom]

I might be inclined to redo the skin scrapings and see if fungus will still grow. Fungus can be HARD to get rid of -- takes longer than a 2-week course of oral meds, many times. Usually you wouldn't give prednisone with a fungal infection.

 

FWIW, my pup's red itchy foot (actually feet, but you had to look close to see it on the others) responded to topical Genesys spray ... and turned out to be a food allergy. Not just any food allergy, but one to fish and fish oil, the very thing you're often advised to give for dry skin, itchies, etc. Not to say that anyone else's problem will be the same -- allergy, or allergy to fish oil -- but the little bumps and skin breaks and itching from a topical or food allergy can allow other organisms to creep in and cause havoc.

 

Best luck with your pups.

[Guest BiancasMom]

Is it on all of his feet/legs or just one? I second the notion it could be food related although you'd think the dermatologist would have thought of this. If it is all of his feet, food makes more sense. Environmental allergens should be ruled out too. If the steroids seemed to work, I wonder if maybe it is immune related.

[kikibean]

I think food allergies were one of the first things they ruled out. May have even done allergy testing, but I'm sure Cheryl will say for sure.

 

His foot does look a lot worse the last couple of months. I took a picture of it the last time he stayed with us because I wanted to see if it changed while he was with us.

 

 

Wooty hasn't gotten it and my dogs haven't either as much as they've been together.

[BatterseaBrindl]

I am also curious as to where you live.

 

Hot/cold?

Wet/dry?

Mud? Sand?

Grass?

Edited December 27, 2011 by BatterseaBrindl

[kikibean]

St. Louis, MO

[tbhounds]

Just to clarify- you intially went to a board certified Veterinary Dermatologist?

[kikibean]

I think she's currently seeing the veterinary dermatologist. That's who did the consult w/ the human one.

[kudzu]

Allergies were my first thought. My sister's dog had fungal & bacterial infections show up secondary to allergies. It's not that uncommon. Then I remembered my girl, Stellaluna. It started out as a red patch, preceded to hair loss & then the bumps & swelling kicked in. Turned out to demodicosis by demodex mites aka red mange. Took 3 vets & 2 skin scrapings to find it. Unfortunately but then secondary bacterial infection had set in. She didn't have fungal infection but that wouldn't seem strange for it to show up in such a situation.

 

Did you ask them specifically what they were looking for? I am not too knowledgeable on dermatology stuff but would think exam of the slides from the skin scrapes would have found demodex or other mites. Certainly special stains wouldn't be needed, right?

[CherylB]

Thanks everyone.

 

Silver's mom, shared misery is helpful. I'm sorry Silver is so itchy...I guess it's a blessing the Remy doesn't mess with this leg.

 

We are seeing a board certified animal derm, and one of the first things we did was allergy testing (no positives). We have also switched him to grain free food with no effect on the leg. There was also no respone to Genesis spray.

 

For a long time, the crud was just on one leg. In the last month, it has spread to the other foot. We have been vacuuming and washing his bed covers every few days to try to prevent infection spreading anywhere else. Not sure if it's helping, but not hurting either.

 

We redid scrapings after one month on fluconazole--no fungus growth, but visually not much improvement. Since we got a false negative back in July, It's hard to get excited about a negative now.

[Batmom]

Drat.

[cleptogrey]

both of mine have had fungus, but it was in their webbing and nail beds. my vet literally scraped it off the webbing and the we used DESITIN OINMENT to keep it dry. the nail bed was treated w/ otc human meds. if you apply desitin it's messy but works wonders on babies' butts.

has a yeast infection been considered?

 

allergy wise i would independently do my own food testing. i have been thru patch tests for allergies, then my allergist insisited on challenging the test anyway. it's a lot cheaper and you might get to the answer w/o breaking the bank.

 

for food elimination start in on plain old white rice, more than 1/2 the world survives on rice. i wouldn't add any protien in yet. after a week then try one protien for one week and see if there is a reaction, beef,lamb, turkey,then chicken. if he is still the same then pasta as your carb and try the meats. a good friend was going crazy w/ her older saluki, went to specialist galore he had major breathing difficulties. she finally tried my elimination diet...duh...it was an allergy to rice! he lived an other 3+ years on pasta and turkey(he died at 18.5).

 

it looks awful, you must be really frustrated. i wish i knew the name of the meds that a local grey was on for awful foot rot, but the owner didn't know, it was a "puffer" w. a powder. it's always good to ask and write down what you use, which you seem to do. good luck, i hope my input helps a tad.

[kudzu]

Cleptogrey give you a good idea with the elimination diet. I want to strongly encourage you to try this. If it isn't an allergy you won't have done any harm in trying it. If it is an allergy then you stand to gain a lot. What protein source is in your dog's food? My dog has a problem with chicken & stronger reaction to wheat.

 

The thing with the allergies though is that they are normally quite itchy, even stoic dogs. Though there's no guaranty. BF somehow manages not to scratch things like mosquito bites or even poison ivy. With some other skin problems it may not become itchy until secondary infection sets in.

[Rickiesmom]

Probably a long shot, but have any of the vets done a bacteria culture?

[Batmom]

Sure wouldn't hurt to try an elimination diet. I would suggest starting with a protein rather than a carb, tho -- one protein, nothing else except absolutely necessary meds (like heartworm) for 12 weeks. You're supposed to use a novel protein but I've several times gotten away with using beef.

[kudzu]

Probably a long shot, but have any of the vets done a bacteria culture?

Oh, excellent question. Didn't notice that had not been mentioned yet. When Luna turned up with demodex & secondary infection they treated for staff infection. However, things had turned so bad so fast that I asked if they were also going to do a culture. My vet's expression was one of great relief. "I am so glad you asked. I'd feel a lot better if we did one." We did & it turned out to be necessary. She was slowly improving but still having problems. Culture results showed that the original treatment for staph was needed but she also had an overgrowth (maybe that's that wrong term?) of pseudomonas which was resistant to the anti-b she was already on. We had to add another anti-b. Dramatic improvement happened then & she stopped licking. We still had the demodex to fight but at least the secondary infection was gone.

[CherylB]

Probably a long shot, but have any of the vets done a bacteria culture?

 

Yep, back in the beginning. Wouldn't hurt to do another since it has been a while, though.

 

Elimination diet is worth a shot He is on a chicken protein now. California Natural grain free. I am a little concerned about eliminating protein to start, as the meds he is on have affected his appetite and he's looking thin on top of everything else.

[Batmom]

I've never heard of starting with a carb, always with a single protein (supposed to be a novel protein to the dog but again I've cheated and used beef to good effect). Initial trial needs to be 12 weeks, and you can't do that with a carb alone. Some people do try one carb plus one protein for that period.

[marion]

That looka like a Malassezia dermatitis. I posted some days ago a topic about Malassezia dermatitis because

my dog has this fungus (it's a fungus) on his foot pads. There develop little crusts, it gets reddish and does hurt when walking. Fortunately my dog has got it only on 2 feet and it's not so difficult to treat.

If a Malassezia infection is generalized you should bathe the dog with Chlorhexidina every day.

Malassezias are very sensitive concerning the PH of the skin. I soak my dog's feet every 2 days in a solution

half water half white vinegar and let it dry. It seems to work.

You vet should do an analysis in order to determine what Fungus exactly is causing your Greys' problem.

I have seen recently a dog with this infection and it looked pretty much like on your Grey.

Have luck...fungus is extremely bothering. Often it's only a symptom of an immunological disorder or another

underlying health problem...

[cleptogrey]

the reason i mentioned carbs is after dealing w/ my saluki who survived parvo and my addisonian scottie- who lived 10 years w/ the disease(most addisonians maybe last 3-5yrs) i kept them alive-my vet's recommendation- on RICE! not the most balanced thing in the world, but it does the trick and my saluki lived another 6.5 years after parvo. cancer is what eventually got him.

 

i'm not into raw diets, it's just my own thing. there is nothing wrong w/ them, i know lots of people whose dogs do well on it. it's just me! also if the owner wishes to feed commercial food, it's a good idea to figure out which carb works.

 

not that the pup is ready for this, but i would like to share an old recipe for homemade dog food. the only thing i alter is white not brown rice.

- to be fed twice daily - this is for about a 50 lb dog - feed more or less according to the dog's activity level and needs - take a week to 10 days to switch over to this diet from commercial food to avoid upset tummies.

 

at each meal feed;

 

1 cup meat (lean lamb (broiling removes most of the fat); beef, chicken, turkey (alternate meat sources every few days so dog received optimum nutrition)

 

3/4 cup organic cooked brown rice or cooked whole oatmeal or 1 sweet potato

 

1/4 cup steamed, finely ground vegetables, i.e. carrots, broccoli green beans, cabbage (organic preferred)

 

2/3 tsp Animal Essentials vitamin powder

 

2/3 tsp Solgar Bone Meal (for humans)

 

1 tabelspoon extra virgin olive oil

 

Then - once or twice a week add a hardboiled egg and a couple of tablespoons of organic cottage cheese

 

you can also add grated cheese, a few sardines, some salmon, etc. as additional nutrition

Edited December 28, 2011 by cleptogrey

[tbhounds]

Before you start to self diagnose I would get a second opinion from another veterinarian. Sometimes a different set of eyes and a different protocol makes the world of difference.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Before you start to self diagnose I would get a second opinion from another veterinarian. Sometimes a different set of eyes and a different protocol makes the world of difference.

 

The main frustration for me is that Silver has already been seen at three different veterinary practices. And the OP's dog has seen her vet, a veterinary dermatologist and a human dermatologist. Our dogs are no better--and actually are worse in some ways. Certainly, the dogs are more miserable after all these months of meds (and, at my house, itching and a muzzle).

 

Months ago I asked my vet about trying to get a sample from Silver's leg and culture it to see if a different antibiotic would be more useful. He said there was no point: something undoubtedly would grow, but with her constant licking and scratching, there's bound to be stuff on the surface of her leg as a result of her activities--and that wouldn't tell us why she was licking and scratching that leg (and only that leg). Instead, there's been wait-and-see, sprays, antihistamines, more antibiotics (for a longer period this time--because two weeks on Simplecef and three weeks on Cephalexin, with lots of Prednisone thrown in, didn't do the slightest bit of good, so let's pretend that 30 days of doxycycline is going to work a miracle).

 

At this point, a strict regimen of doxycycline for 30 days--with no other ointments, creams, dietary changes, etc.--is a depressing prescription. We're just over halfway through that 30 days, and she's worse--not better. (And she's still coughing periodically, which is one of the things I took her in for in the first place). I'm so tired of watching her batter her muzzle against me, the other dog (who also is sick and doesn't need the abuse), and all the walls and furniture because she's miserable being muzzled 24 hours a day. The muzzle is off at mealtimes, but that's all. She no longer stops chewing her leg when I scold her, so the muzzle is the only thing keeping her from turning her leg into something that resembles raw hamburger. And when she's muzzled, she still scratches the leg with her back foot. But that's a dry assault on her leg--not the moisture-rich attack of teeth and tongue. The scratching doesn't cause as much damage or irritation, but it's not making her better; it's just not making her worse as quickly.

 

She's been here for four months--and they've been miserable for both of us. Hard to cuddle your baby when you're getting smashed in the nose...

 

 

 

(The photos don't show the raised bumps all over the surface of her leg.)

 

 

And for added good times: she's in heat. Day 17. Sheesh!

[Batmom]

KF, I have to say, the pictures coupled with the cough make me think histoplasmosis ......

 

ETA: Or hookworm dermatitis.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Batmom

[tbhounds]

I understand the frustration and I understand that some trial and error tactics can be tried at home AND I understand we are all not made of money but, I still think you need another - board certified veterinary dermatologists evaluation. Are either one of you near a University?

I read all of the past treatments and medications that have been tried in the past but, there is hope - there are other protocols that may help--ie Atopica.