Dismayed

[Guest greyers]

The osteo thread on this forum just absolutely kills me. Its like a sickness for me.... Having been through it with two of my Greys, I HAVE to go read it daily, but when I do I'm just so discouraged and heartbroken by what I see. I am dismayed by the high numbers of doggies on there suffering from osteosarcoma and other forms of cancer.

 

I recently read a British article that suggested something like 44% of greyhounds are afflicted with cancer and more than half of those are osteo. I don't know how accurate that article was or how old. When I think about it, I realize of the three Greys I have lost thus far, two had osteo. That's a seriously high percentage in our household alone!

 

So my question is, from research what does it seem the percentage of Greys afflicted with cancer (and especially osteosarcoma) is?

 

I am hoping learning a bit more might help me wrap my head around this a bit more and also help ease the pain from losing Jimmy James not quite a month ago to Osteo.

 

What a wonderful support system greytalk is for people suffering. As hard as that osteo thread is to read, it's amazing what a wonderful thing everyone is doing to help and support others with broken hearts.

[greysmom]

I believe the statistics that are always quoted from Dr Couto at OSU is that 1 in 4 greyhounds will develope cancer/osteo. But, if you look at all dog breeds, their risk is not any higher than any other large breed dog. Part of the "problem" here on GT is that you have a high concentration of them gathered in one spot, so naturally, that will result in more diagnosises (sp?) being seen. The same for behavioral problems in the Training and Behavior section - lots of SA and other serious problems that people are dealing with, but again, this is where people come for answers and help. There are thousands of greyhound owners out there who aren't on GT and who never need to be.

 

We had greyhounds for seven years before any of them developed a super serious health issue. Though when you have multiples, that risk obviously goes up. Losing Dude and Dorie so close together has ripped our hearts out, but we have never even considered not adopting another one (or two). Whatever we give to them, we get back so much more.

[krissy]

I had always gone with the 1 in 4 stat, but I think the newest stats are showing more like 1 in 3. The cancer rate in all dogs is increasing. Something close to 60% of greyhounds will die of some form of cancer, with closer to 30% of all greys dying of osteosarcoma. That's just our racing greyhounds though. AKC greys have high rates of cancer similar to all other dogs these days, but their risk for osteosarcoma is much lower. There are fewer show greys of course, but a study that was done not too long ago that Dr.Couto discussed with me was done at UC Davis (I think, can't remember the University now). They neocropsied something like 900 AKC greys over a number of years and found that osteosarcoma was a significantly lower cause of death in those dogs than in retired racers. I wish I could actually find the paper. It's not the most perfect way to conduct a study, but it's the best we've had so far.

[Guest Swifthounds]

We also sometimes forget that greyhounds often live well into double digits - much longer than the average lifespan of most dog's thee size - and that skews the statistics.

 

I still haven't seen anything to back up Dr. Couto's 1 in 4 assertion. Still, anything that lives long enough will generally die of cancer if not killed first by other disease process.

[Guest GryffinSong]

I don't think I've ever heard of osteo in an Italian greyhound, and I've been active in that community for many years. I hate to say it, but I really, really do feel that it's a greyhound thing. When I tell greyhound people I lost Gryffin to osteo I get a ton of osteo stories back. When I tell people active in golden retrievers or corgis or any other breed, I don't.

[45MPHK9]

I hate to say it, but I really, really do feel that it's a greyhound thing. When I tell greyhound people I lost Gryffin to osteo I get a ton of osteo stories back.

 

It's not a greyhound thing. It's a racing greyhound thing. The incidence of OSA in AKC greyhounds is virtually zero according to Dr. Couto.

[krissn333]

I don't think I've ever heard of osteo in an Italian greyhound, and I've been active in that community for many years. I hate to say it, but I really, really do feel that it's a greyhound thing. When I tell greyhound people I lost Gryffin to osteo I get a ton of osteo stories back. When I tell people active in golden retrievers or corgis or any other breed, I don't.

One of the IGs that I helped transport to Lifeline IG rescue was diagnosed with osteo and had an amputation. She rides the motorcycle strapped to her dad's chest all the time

 

The stats are much much lower with IGs, but, it *does* happen.

[Neighsayer]

Osteo may be a racing greyhound thing, but cancer is cancer! As we do more research to detect and treat cancer in people and animals, we see/ hear of more who have it. Of the five greyhounds I have had since 2005, I lost one to osteo. During that same period, I lost three other dogs to some form of cancer. A chow mix, a golden mix, and a purebred golden.

I too, read the osteo thread and hurt for all those who are going through the fight right now. I also freeze with fear when one of my current four greyhounds develops a limp. It is comforting to be able to come here to share with people who understand.

[tbhounds]

I don't think I've ever heard of osteo in an Italian greyhound, and I've been active in that community for many years. I hate to say it, but I really, really do feel that it's a greyhound thing. When I tell greyhound people I lost Gryffin to osteo I get a ton of osteo stories back. When I tell people active in golden retrievers or corgis or any other breed, I don't.

If you talk to Golden owners you'll find a high percentage pass from hemangiosarcoma, cavaliers- heart disease, cockers-immune mediated diseases, dobies- osteo &heart disease, Great Danes and Rotties-osteo...etc. My point is, while we have our hearts broken battling the monster we call osteosarcoma many other breeds battle and fight the diseases that haunt them.

[Guest GryffinSong]

I don't think I've ever heard of osteo in an Italian greyhound, and I've been active in that community for many years. I hate to say it, but I really, really do feel that it's a greyhound thing. When I tell greyhound people I lost Gryffin to osteo I get a ton of osteo stories back. When I tell people active in golden retrievers or corgis or any other breed, I don't.

If you talk to Golden owners you'll find a high percentage pass from hemangiosarcoma, cavaliers- heart disease, cockers-immune mediated diseases, dobies- osteo &heart disease, Great Danes and Rotties-osteo...etc. My point is, while we have our hearts broken battling the monster we call osteosarcoma many other breeds battle and fight the diseases that haunt them.

 

Absolutely, I agree. Each breed seems to have a few common ailments, from osteo to hip displasia to sudden rage syndrome to epilepsy, and many more, depending on the breed. And as for racing vs. AKC, it doesn't surprise me. But I only know a couple of AKC greyhounds, so don't have any data or experience to add.

[Hubcitypam]

It's not a greyhound thing. It's a racing greyhound thing. The incidence of OSA in AKC greyhounds is virtually zero according to Dr. Couto.

 

I'm not a statistician, but I'd venture to guess in the teeny tiny world of AKC greys the odds would be skewed to virtually zero compared to the tens of thousands of racing greys. Also, AKC greyhound breeders would be FAR less likely to share any incidents of osteo and/or use facilities like Ohio State for fear their lines will be tagged as prone to osteo.

[onrushpam]

I've lost 3 dogs to osteo... No. 1 was a pure NGA dog that never ran an official race. She was 9 when she died, just missing the double-digit mark. But, she had other physical issues, due to an injury sustained as a pet, that hastened her end. No. 2 was an AKC dog that did have one NGA registered ancestor in his pedigree. He lived to be nearly 15 years old, suffered from congestive heart failure and squamous cell carcinoma of the mouth. Osteo was what got him in the end. No. 3 was a UK coursing-bred dog that never raced. He died way too young at 7.

 

All long-boned canine breeds have a high incidence of osteo. Greyhounds are statistically the longest living amongst all those breeds. It's likely racing dogs have a higher incidence, due to their athletic pasts. Osteo tends to develop at the site of previous injuries, even if those injuries were minor.

 

All dog must eventually die of something! The "show" greyhound lines have a relatively high incidence of heart problems we never see in race or coursing bred dogs and it is well known which lines have produced that problem. They also have a horrible genetic problem that shows up in some litters, causing all the puppies to deteriorate and die in the first two years of life.

 

Also remember, the NGA and the AKC are registries, along with the NCC (England) and the ICC (Ireland) and whatever the Australian one is called. There are a good number of dogs (I've owned a few) that are registered with the NCC or ICC, the NGA and the AKC. You have to look at the pedigree. Registry is really meaningless.

 

I LOVE going to greyhound events and seeing many older dogs (in double digits) in really good shape! You'd never see that at a gathering of Irish Wolfhounds or Rottweilers or Great Danes!

 

Italian greyhounds share no common ancestry with "proper" greyhounds. They are toy dogs and have their own set of health issues. It is not surprising they have a low incidence of osteo, because they are not long-boned dogs.

 

It's all a matter of perspective, doncha think?

 

Yes, osteo sucks!

[OwnedBySummer]

Here are two slides of interest from a presentation this spring by Dr. Couto. I found them so interesting that I photographed them!

 

 

[HopeForHounds]

It is a matter of perspective, and yes osteo does suck!

 

Pam is right "All dog must eventually die of something!" Our greyhounds are generally very healthy, yet they will die of something. Cancer rates are rising in all breeds as well as in humans, a sobering thought. The prevelant number of deaths from cancer in greyhounds is osteo. We just seem to see a higher number here on GT because this is where people come for research, comfort and support.

 

I had a conversation with our vet recently about a limp one of my dogs had where she said "if it is osteo sarc........." I looked up, and she smiled and said not everything with the word osteo in it is cancer. I realized then that in the greyhound world "osteo" has become synonymous with cancer even though there are other conditions with osteo their names.

 

I've had a greyhound with cancer, not osteo, she lived 4 more years and died at 13 3/4 of basically old age. I have a 12 1/2 year old who we struggled to "fix" after limping and other stuff that turned out to be tick disease. I hope he too dies of old age too. I have two more who are young and healthy.

 

The odds aren't on my side, I know that. But, I'll keep working to raise money for cancer research because someday we will find the answers we are looking for.

[onrushpam]

I respect Dr. Couto tremendously! Howevah...

 

The "sampling" of AKC dogs and Galgos whose owners reported their causes of death are tiny, compared to the statistics available on retired racing greyhounds.

And, where would he have counted my two dogs... one AKC registered, with racing dogs in his pedigree; and one UK coursing dog with no racing dogs in his pedigree, but lots of the same bloodliines as racing dogs. It simply makes no sense to put that forth as any sort of scientific comparison. My one AKC dog, had I reported his cause of death, would've bumped that "cancer" bar up a notch (due to the small size of the sample). And, my coursing bred dog doesn't fit anywhere in there.

[dante2zoe]

I, too, was dismayed when I found out the high rate of cancer with these dogs. However, does that mean that I will never adopt another retired racer? No. It means that I try to live life with them as they do - live each day for itself and care for them to the best of my ability. I have decided that this statistic is almost another reason to keep adopting them. Provide these wonderful animals with comforts and love and if they are in the unlucky camp, they have known the couch!

 

My son was also diagnosed with cancer at age 12. That sucked big time. I am thankful and fortunate that he is alive today at age 20, but not without permanent deficits (and benefits) from his ordeal. He didn't "do" anything that could cause him to get cancer and it isn't in the family.

 

Such a touchy subject.

[krissn333]

Pinky was just preliminarily diagnosed today. She's my second with osteo and my third with overall cancer (Ace is living with leukemia). This doesn't mean that I won't continue to have greyhounds as part of my life though. Cancer does indeed suck

[Guest greyers]

I, too, was dismayed when I found out the high rate of cancer with these dogs. However, does that mean that I will never adopt another retired racer? No. It means that I try to live life with them as they do - live each day for itself and care for them to the best of my ability. I have decided that this statistic is almost another reason to keep adopting them. Provide these wonderful animals with comforts and love and if they are in the unlucky camp, they have known the couch!

 

 

This is interesting because my husband and I were just having this discussion. Don't tell my Greys, but my dream dog is an Irish wolfhound. I absolutely adore the breed and hubby and I have talked for many years of owning one. But you know what has always stopped us? The fear of losing them young to bone cancer and their short life expectancy. We know we would likely never Choose to get one from a breeder and instead would go through a rescue such as Gentle Giants. So therefore the dog would likely already have lived half or more of it's lifetime before us. Yet here we stand this week adopting a 9 1/2 year old greyhound who we KNOW we may have as little as a year or two with (we have lost all our previosu Greys between age 10.5-11.5) and knowing that there is a significant chance we will lose him to cancer. But it didn't stop us from adooting this sweet boy who deserves the best home he can get for his last years. I think losing Jimmy James to osteosarcoma, adopting an Rego as an older dog (usually we adopt around age 7), and seeing the wide spread cancer stats have changed our opinion and has taken away our reasoning for never owning a wolfhound. So some day we will have one I believe. However I will always have a grey or two as well since they are such amazing dogs and so many awaiting their forever home post racing. I just love these guys and cant imagine not having them!

 

 

There is some really interesting points people have made here and actually I am really glad I posted this topic. I think it will help bring me some comfort hearing others responses and knowing better what the stats really are. Thank you everyone who has contributed so far.

[Guest tricolorhounds]

It's not a greyhound thing. It's a racing greyhound thing. The incidence of OSA in AKC greyhounds is virtually zero according to Dr. Couto.

 

I'm not a statistician, but I'd venture to guess in the teeny tiny world of AKC greys the odds would be skewed to virtually zero compared to the tens of thousands of racing greys. Also, AKC greyhound breeders would be FAR less likely to share any incidents of osteo and/or use facilities like Ohio State for fear their lines will be tagged as prone to osteo.

 

 

[Guest Swifthounds]

As a total aside, I would do some more investigation if you are under the impression that Gentle Giants is a rescue group.

[TwiggysMom]

Pets in my adult life (not including fosters) have been: Cats - Elle, Baby, Cactus, Rover, Emma, Donnie & Aiden. Donnie and Aiden are still alive; Elle and Emma died of mystery illnesses that exams/tests could not identify; Baby, Cactus & Rover died of one form of cancer or another.

 

Dogs: Ezra - cattle dog mix, died of prostrate cancer (at 17 yrs old); and now Twiggy (greyhound) has osteo which she & I are currently fighting like the dickens.

 

I once asked my vet in dismay whether I could be inadvertently doing something to give them cancer. (wrong food, bad city tap water, over/under medicating...) The answer was that if your pets live long enough, something has to kill them - usually that ends up being cancer. He said I should be proud that I kept them healthy enough that other illnesses didn't get them first.

 

As for greyhounds specifically and cancer, from what I have heard they aren't more prone to cancer than other breeds, BUT when they get cancer it is more likely than not going to be osteo. (Two of my greyhound fosters have passed away, one of intestinal lymphoma at age 6 and another of osteo at age 10).

 

Cancer is indeed dismaying, but I don't associate it as being more prevalent in greyhounds than other breeds or even species. That is just my naive opinion, though.

[Guest zombrie]

I don't think I've ever heard of osteo in an Italian greyhound, and I've been active in that community for many years. I hate to say it, but I really, really do feel that it's a greyhound thing. When I tell greyhound people I lost Gryffin to osteo I get a ton of osteo stories back. When I tell people active in golden retrievers or corgis or any other breed, I don't.

 

There's a black lab on my street who has osteo. I also know of a AKC greyhound with osteo. I think we are just more surrounded by osteo because of the tight-nit greyhound community. I have a golden retriever and a GSD and I'm not on other forums for their breed nor am I involved with groups of their breed, always being surrounded by their 'specific' health issues. The common dog owner is only involved with their personal dog(s).

 

That's my opinion anyway

[Guest azlorenz]

My Flash (8 yrs) will have been gone 1 year on Nov. 27 due to osteo. We lost his sister Lexie to old age only days after his passing. We were down to one dog which was unbearable. Now we have 4 wonderful grey girls. I hate osteosarcoma with a passion. HOWEVER, I will always share my life with greyhounds, osteosarcoma or not. I'm willing to take that chance again.

 

A discussion started at our M&G last weekend about osteo. 2 people told of greyhounds they knew of that had amputations and 5 and 8 years later were still trucking. I told them my opinion was that they didn't have osteosarcoma then. They had a vet that didn't want to take the chance and was proactive when he saw something suspicious. Kudos to that vet. Here in the desert we deal with valley fever which creates lesions that look very similar to osteosarcoma events on film. One continued on to say, well if you just do an amputation it takes care of the osteo and the dog is fine. If it were only so easy wouldn't we all be thrilled. I'm sure the blood was trickling down my chin as I bit my tongue. My response was that by the time you discover osteo micromets are already on the move. You can only slow it not cure it.

Edited October 23, 2011 by azlorenz

[krissn333]

As a total aside, I would do some more investigation if you are under the impression that Gentle Giants is a rescue group.

 

Looks like a rescue group to me...run by Burt Ward (TV's Robin from the original Batman series) http://gentlegiantsrescue.com/

[Guest greyers]

As a total aside, I would do some more investigation if you are under the impression that Gentle Giants is a rescue group.

 

Looks like a rescue group to me...run by Burt Ward (TV's Robin from the original Batman series) http://gentlegiantsrescue.com/

 

Swift hounds I too am confused by your comment about Gentle Giants not being a rescue? I'm speaking of the organization in Southern California which is the same group I believe that Kristin quoted. Are you perhaps thinking of a different group with the same name? Or are you suggesting that the group isn't "kosher"? *scratches head...