Limping And Arthritis

[greyhoundlady]

My 9-1/2 year old male, Saber, has been favoring is back left leg every so often on long walks, or when he would jump out of the SUV. Yesterday it became more pronounced, so we went to the vet for a check. After an exam and x-rays, she told me he is beginning to show a bit of arthritis in his hip and knee. She wants to treat this with diet (Hills Prescription Diet J/D for Mobility) as she also has a greyhound of her own and has her grey on this food. She said her grey is doing wonderfully on it. Of course, I bought a giant bag of kibble and a case of canned :-). For now, there is no medication. Saber has a bit of a struggle when he is laying on his bed and tries to get up. Yes, I have now also ordered an therapeutic bed for him.

 

My question to anyone that can help is What is the best way to help him get into an SUV? I have a Honda Pilot that he always jumped right up into, but now he keeps circling and trying, but won't jump - obviously because the leg bothers him. I have never needed to use a ramp, and he doesn't do stairs since where we live everything is all level except maybe for a step through the door. Can you let me know what type of ramps you think are best - or is there a better way. I know he will be reluctant about a ramp because is it 'new' and that doesn't go well with him, but he will just have to learn.

 

I appreciate all your help!

[Guest peacehound]

My girl has arthritis and a bad shoulder, she was on a NSAID(now gets Adequan shots and is off Deramaxx) and just recently we bought her a ruff wear harness. The harness is wonderful, it has a handle so we can help her without much effort. Its almost like picking up a suitcase, we help her into the car, up the deck stairs. At this point she is not doing regular stairs but after the series of Adequan we are hoping she can go upstairs to bed with us, hubby and I are getting real tired of sleeping downstairs with her! Good luck

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

I have an Acura MDX which is the twin of the Pilot. I bought this ramp. It's steep but doable. They will avoid it if possible but have forced the dog to go up and down it if needed. I don't use it much as I usually just lift them in and out.

[Brindles]

Are you able to just lift him? Prop his front feet up on the vehicle, and then lift his back end with one hand between his legs and an arm his belly. To get him out, support his chest and gently lower him to the ground as he jumps out. That's how it's done at the track, so he'll probably know what to do.

[Guest eaglflyt]

I suggest a portable ramp to be used for entry and exit from your vehicle. Barnum also has posted instructions for making foam steps that you could take along for entry and exit.

 

Good luck.

[Guest Swifthounds]

With my old hounds, I would just lift them into the SUV like they lift them at the track. There was a thread a while back with some photos showing how.

 

Also, you should look into adding fish body oil at therapeutic levels and supplementing for joints - it can be a huge help. Nothing in the Hills food will do much, especially with so many inflammation causing grains added.

[tbhounds]

Discountramps.com has a couple of ramps for SUV's. I bought mine from them- fast shipping and very good prices too. You might want to see if they sell their products on Amazon- sometimes it will actually be cheaper that way.

Btw- I'm not a big Hills fan but, I have had some decent feedback on the J/D. Personally, I supplement with Dasaquin and Welactin3.

[Remolacha]

Fletcher is also 9 1/2, and has had arthritis for about three years. It has gotten worse in the last year, so I know pretty much what you are dealing with. I would definitely get him some joint supplements, Springtime Joint Health and Fresh Factors are good. Can't help you with the ramp, I have one that he refuses to use, but so far, my Element is low enough for him to still jump in. I would try the lifting others have suggested first.

[greyhoundlady]

Thank you, all, for your great suggestions. Technically, I can lift him (because I am tall, fairly strong and determined), but he hates that. He is 82 lbs and tall, and he is not keen with being picked up. (Not that he will bite or anything, he just struggles in fear.) I have tried putting his front paws up and lifting the back end, but that is like watching a comedy happen - he's not going along with that either.

 

Thank you, MorganKonaAlex, for the link to the ramp. I think the ramp is probably the best way to go, and I was looking to see how people here felt about them and which ones, as there are lots, it seems, to choose from.

 

I will keep the supplement (thank you!) idea on the back burner for now, and see how he does on the prescription food. I've got enough of that to last for quite a long time!

[Guest Swifthounds]

Before you invest in a ramp, see if someone near you has one you can try. Some dogs really dislike or like some but not others.

[greyhoundlady]

Before you invest in a ramp, see if someone near you has one you can try. Some dogs really dislike or like some but not others.

 

Thanks, that is a good idea. I pretty much know he is not going to like it but, I am thinking the ramp idea is the best option. I know as he gets older it will become more difficult for him to jump up - and he absolutely loves going in the car for rides.

[sweetdogs]

i made some steps out of 3 milk crates, indoor/outdoor carpeting & zip ties. I have a CRV so it's lower than your Pilot but they have done the trick for us. I bought a ramp first & the hound I bought it for would.not.use.it. He had no issues with the steps & it really saved his back/neck.

[krissn333]

I'd recommend a ramp for getting in and out of the car. As far as the food goes, yech. You'd be better off putting him on a grain free fish based food like Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream (omega 3's are good for the joints). I really hate when vets push that Hill's prescription crap on people. It's full of corn and other junk and won't do a bit of good with the arthritis (sorry to be so harsh but I really have strong opinions on this).

 

I also recommend Springtime's Jont Health Tabs. They have really helped Carrie and really helped Sutra.

 

Another thing to look into is cold laser therapy-the results are amazing! Sutra injured both of his knees once. I had to carry him into the vet's office and he trotted out on his own after his first treatment. It works really well for digs with arthritis

 

*dogs, not digs

Edited August 14, 2011 by krissn333

[Houndtime]

I bought a telescoping ramp for Fuzzy for our travel trailer. It has a a slip proof coating. In the beginning, the dogs didn't like it at all and struggled with it. If you remember from previous posts, we had originally purchased steps and Fuzzy had a terrible accident with them. Now all three go up the ramp without issue. They just had to get used to it.

 

I give Paul and Fuzzy Azmira Yucca which is a natural anti inflamatory as well as fish oil, and Cosaquin DS. All of the supplements can be bought on line and are reasonably priced. I am pretty sure that we bought the ramp on Amazon.

[Batmom]

He's limping and the vet gave no anti-inflammatory or pain meds? I'd go find a different vet.

 

The evidence so far shows pretty overwhelmingly that joint supplements (and foods containing supplements) do little if anything except empty the pocketbook. Might not hurt but aren't likely to help, and meanwhile the dog is in pain.

 

Some (most?) dogs won't use a ramp first time -- takes a little bit of training such as first get the dog to walk on the ramp while it's flat on the floor, then with one end up on a large book, then with one end up on the bed or couch, etc.

[JJNg]

First, I want to acknowledge that I realize the OP didn't ask for opinions on these topics, but I can't help but respond. So my apologies for the hi-jack as this will be a bit of a soapbox.

 

As far as the food goes, yech. You'd be better off putting him on a grain free fish based food like Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream (omega 3's are good for the joints). I really hate when vets push that Hill's prescription crap on people. It's full of corn and other junk and won't do a bit of good with the arthritis (sorry to be so harsh but I really have strong opinions on this).

You're entitled to your opinion, but as a vet who uses and recommends "Hill's prescription crap" in select cases, I find this rather insulting. I know that many don't like Hill's products and seem to believe that vets recommend prescription foods to make money, or because we've been brainwashed or bribed by the food manufacturers. I can assure you that this isn't the case. Other than providing discounted food while I was in vet school (and that certainly hasn't made me feel obligated to recommend their food), I have received no incentives from any of the food companies. And selling prescription food has one of the lowest profit margins of anything we do because the foods are so expensive even at cost, so they are not marked up much.

 

I think I can speak for most vets in saying that we recommend prescription foods because we honestly feel they will benefit the pet for the condition we are treating. There may be other dietary options that work just as well or better, but few of them are documented or proven, and most require more work and research on the owner's part, which most of my clients have no interest in doing. If a client prefers to avoid prescription food and wants to go the route of raw, or home-cooked, or supplements, I have nothing against this, as long as I feel they will do the appropriate research.

 

However, I do take offense to anyone implying that I don't have the pet's best interest in mind when I recommend a prescription product for a particular medical condition. What non-prescription dietary options have been proven through clinical trials to extend the lifespan of a pet with kidney disease? Or to improve weight-bearing and reduce the need for NSAIDs in dogs with osteoarthritis? Hill's also has some pretty cool research on nutrigenomics - where diet can change the expression of genes that control metabolism and accumulation of fat. And I'm excited about a new diet they'll be coming out with soon for cats with hyperthyroidism that can control the disease without needing medication (one of the biggest struggles for many cat owners).

 

Veterinary nutritionists believe that it's the nutrients and the digestability that are important, not the ingredients. To some extent, I agree with this, although I prefer to have higher quality ingredients too. While I'd like to see Hill's use better ingredients, I believe that their prescription formulas are well-researched, have the science to back their efficacy, and can be very beneficial for certain problems.

 

There is no evidence that "corn and other junk" is truly detrimental to a dog's health, other than if that dog happens to be allergic to it. There's even a whole thread over the the Food and Dietary folder about dogs that do just fine on the lower end foods like Dog Chow and Pedigree.

 

I was just doing a Google search and browsing and found this site by a vet who further addresses the Hill's prejudice. He even has a page specifically about Hill's Prescription j/d. And here's a link to a Hill's brochure about j/d (I could only find the British version) which includes references to clinical studies.

 

He's limping and the vet gave no anti-inflammatory or pain meds? I'd go find a different vet.

I don't put every limping dog I see on anti-inflammatories or pain meds. Depends on the severity and chronicity, as well as how strongly the owner feels about trying to avoid the risks of drugs. The OP seemed to indicate that this was a chronic intermittent problem, and in a case like this, I might also choose to start with supplementation. Although I honestly haven't used j/d much, and usually start with recommending Dasuquin and fish oil. The premise behind how Hill's j/d works to reduce arthritic pain is with high doses of omega-3 fatty acids (higher than you can realistically achieve with fish oil capsules), and a low omega-6 to omega-3 ratio.

 

The evidence so far shows pretty overwhelmingly that joint supplements (and foods containing supplements) do little if anything except empty the pocketbook. Might not hurt but aren't likely to help, and meanwhile the dog is in pain.

You can probably find about as many studies that show they help as ones that don't. And in my clinical experience, this is consistent with the variation in individual response. I have owners who report no improvement, as well as ones who rave about how much better the pet is after starting joint supplements. I hear reports from owners who say their dog who had stopped climbing stairs months ago, started joining the family upstairs again. Or a cat who had stopped jumping onto the bed, starting being able to join the owner in bed again. Details like this make me believe the supplements are actually helping, and it's not a placebo effect.

 

However, most supplements do take time to work, so I will often recommend or give the owner the option of pain meds for more immediate relief. Dasuquin does have some anti-inflammatory effects and in milder cases, I find that it can help pretty quickly without needing pain meds.

[GeorgeofNE]

He's limping and the vet gave no anti-inflammatory or pain meds? I'd go find a different vet.

 

The evidence so far shows pretty overwhelmingly that joint supplements (and foods containing supplements) do little if anything except empty the pocketbook. Might not hurt but aren't likely to help, and meanwhile the dog is in pain.

 

Some (most?) dogs won't use a ramp first time -- takes a little bit of training such as first get the dog to walk on the ramp while it's flat on the floor, then with one end up on a large book, then with one end up on the bed or couch, etc.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Your vet sounds like she's on the Science Diet payroll.

 

No doubt that food is regular Science Diet kibble with some glucosamine and omega fatty acids added in. No reason you can't add those things yourself, although I personally think glucosamine is a waste of money.

[Batmom]

I will often recommend or give the owner the option of pain meds for more immediate relief.

 

That is good to hear. As an owner, I am willing to try most things that my vets think might help over time, but if the dog is in pain I want something to provide quick relief if that is at all possible. Similar to when I myself have a headache -- if the doc tells me to cut out caffeine so I don't get headaches, I'm willing to try that, but I'm also going to take some aspirin today.

 

I have seen one or two small studies (notably Roush et al. on vertical force) that suggest some benefit to omega 3's in reducing osteoarthritis pain over time. I would want to see these repeated and expanded, tho, before changing my assessment of the current state of the art.

 

Count me among those who have no problem with the prescription foods (altho I am skeptical of J/D and N/D's benefits) or corn. As far as I can tell, the objections to feeding them have more to do with current fads in human eating habits and in boutique food marketing than with a rational assessment of problems and solutions.

[sweetdogs]

Another thing to look into is cold laser therapy-the results are amazing! Sutra injured both of his knees once. I had to carry him into the vet's office and he trotted out on his own after his first treatment. It works really well for digs with arthritis

 

*dogs, not digs

 

A friend of a friends dog has been getting cold laser therapy & it's really working well for him too. He (non-greyhound) lost a leg to a car accident so when he was showing signs of pain, they tried the laser & it's really helped.

[Guest mygreyhound66]

Hi GreyhoundLady, sorry to hear your baby is limping, my boy has recently started having issues, and my problem is that i don't have a vet that i trust. My girl went to the specialists in West Caldwell, and they totally over-medicated here, gave her anasthesia (which i was against) and basically i brought home a girl that was near death - good news is that i (we) totally nursed her back to relatively healthy for a 12 year young girl - now i need to take my 7 year boy to a vet - I am not sure if it is against policy on the board to mention a vets name, but I see that you are in New Jersey, we are also, we are in Essex county - if you can let me know the name of a vet you trust, I would appreciate it very much....

[greyhoundlady]

Thanks, again, everyone for your input. It is great learning as much as possible on what others feel/and have learned. I've decided to go with the Solvit Deluxe Telescoping Pet Ramp. Looks like it might do the trick, once my boy accepts it. There are great creative ideas here on steps, but Saber would look at those and surely give me the 'look'. He is a dog set in his ways.

 

Thanks also for all the thoughts on food / supplements.

 

Mygreyhound66 - welcome to Greytalk. You will learns lots of great things from this site - everyone is so willing to help. I will send you an email with the vet I use, if you are in the same area.

[Houndtime]

Thanks, again, everyone for your input. It is great learning as much as possible on what others feel/and have learned. I've decided to go with the Solvit Deluxe Telescoping Pet Ramp. Looks like it might do the trick, once my boy accepts it. There are great creative ideas here on steps, but Saber would look at those and surely give me the 'look'. He is a dog set in his ways.

 

Thanks also for all the thoughts on food / supplements.

 

Mygreyhound66 - welcome to Greytalk. You will learns lots of great things from this site - everyone is so willing to help. I will send you an email with the vet I use, if you are in the same area.

 

I bought the same brand ramp. I am not sure which one you bought, but we purchased the delux ramp. Again, with practice, all three of our dogs are using it.

 

I am also in NJ and use Dr. Christine Newman, Harlingen Veterinary practice in Belle Mead. I have also used Red Bank in Shrewsbury for their specialists and recently took Fuzzy to North Star Referal in Robbinsville. All of these doctors are a distance for me to travel to, but the quality of service makes it worth the while. I also take my dogs to NGAP for dentals and annual vaccinations. Worth the trip for oridinary issues as the clinic is very discounted. With three dogs, I try to find the best prices when I can.

[JJNg]

Your vet sounds like she's on the Science Diet payroll.

Wow, if I can get on Hill's payroll for recommending/selling their food, please tell me where to sign up! Seriously, the vets on their payroll work in their research, marketing, and support areas, and are not out in general practice selling their food. Please see my response above (post #16). We do not get any kickbacks, and stocking/selling diets are not big money-makers for a vet clinic.

 

To be honest, the profit margin from selling meds like prescription NSAIDs (Rimadyl, Previcox, Deramaxx, Metacam) would probably be much higher than selling prescription food. I suppose I should start dispensing NSAIDs to every dog with arthritis, rather than trying to manage it with safer long term options.

 

No doubt that food is regular Science Diet kibble with some glucosamine and omega fatty acids added in. No reason you can't add those things yourself, although I personally think glucosamine is a waste of money.

The studies were actually done with high doses of omega-3 fatty acids added to the food. They later added glucosamine, apparently due to popular demand. I agree that you can add those yourself, although Hill's claims that the amounts of omega-3 fatty acids in j/d are so high you'd need to supplement with a ridiculous number of pills to reach the same levels (I think they state 30+ capsules daily for a medium sized dog). I tried to find the numbers to confirm this, but haven't been able to.

 

Canine j/d is actually not one of the prescription diets I typically recommend. I do recommend people supplement with fish oil and glucosamine products. However, I do find Feline j/d to be helpful because cats can be so difficult to give supplements to.