Leashing Your Grey

[Guest BrianRke]

Before I get attacked let me say that I am 100% being leashing greys (and other breeds) 100% of the time unless fenced or for sport.

 

Here's the deal though, everyone keeps talking about the adoption contracts that state never letting dog off leash, what are the ramifications for not doing this?? IMO they would never hold up in court if the group tried to take the dog back. It like a right to first refusal clause when selling anything, they don't matter and do not hold up in court because once you own something it is yours and no one can say what you do with it (within the law obviously).

 

I am not saying that they are pointless or anything because for the majority of good people signing something like that means they will obey it for moral reasons, but it just has always bothered me that there is really nothing behind it? Maybe I'm wrong and it would hold up in court and people would have their dog taken away but to me it doesn't seem like it would work. Has anyone else ever thought of this? Maybe its never come up becuase if the dog was taken the people never fought it.

 

The group could ask for the dog back if they found out an adopter was letting the dog offleash, but I doubt they would win in court if it came to that. I think having adopters sign a contract just keeps the honest people honest.

You are correct. Dogs are considered personal property and this clause would never hold up in court. Its like selling someone your used car and telling them they have to change the oil every 3000 miles and cant drive it over 55mph.

 

It is in most adoption agreements so people will know that they should never have their dog off leash. It is up to the adoption group to school all adopters on the horrible things that can happen if you choose to have your dog off leash

[Guest june]

Before I get attacked let me say that I am 100% being leashing greys (and other breeds) 100% of the time unless fenced or for sport.

 

Here's the deal though, everyone keeps talking about the adoption contracts that state never letting dog off leash, what are the ramifications for not doing this?? IMO they would never hold up in court if the group tried to take the dog back. It like a right to first refusal clause when selling anything, they don't matter and do not hold up in court because once you own something it is yours and no one can say what you do with it (within the law obviously).

 

I am not saying that they are pointless or anything because for the majority of good people signing something like that means they will obey it for moral reasons, but it just has always bothered me that there is really nothing behind it? Maybe I'm wrong and it would hold up in court and people would have their dog taken away but to me it doesn't seem like it would work. Has anyone else ever thought of this? Maybe its never come up becuase if the dog was taken the people never fought it.

 

I'd have to dig out my adoption agreement, but I think my adoption agreement states that you are actually a co-owner with the rescue as the other owner. I do know that our contract states that you will keep your dog leashed or in an enclosed area at all times. I don't know if the "co-owner" wording would make a difference in court or not. I do know that our group has taken dogs back and also that they will not adopt to anyone who lets their dog (s) off lead.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I'd have to dig out my adoption agreement, but I think my adoption agreement states that you are actually a co-owner with the rescue as the other owner. I do know that our contract states that you will keep your dog leashed or in an enclosed area at all times. I don't know if the "co-owner" wording would make a difference in court or not. I do know that our group has taken dogs back and also that they will not adopt to anyone who lets their dog (s) off lead.

 

Nope. Ask any breeder or performance person who has had to litigate a co-ownership issue.

 

I appreciate the arguments on both side of the leash/unleash debate. The contract argument always rears it's ugly head to cheapen a good discussion.

[Guest NJgrey]

I made the mistake of letting a dog (non-grey) off-leash once. She was doing great until she wasn't. Bolted trough a hole in the shrubbery. Got her back probably a minute later but it felt like an hr. NEVER AGAIN.

 

It's in our contract with the adoption group that we'd never let her off leash unless in an enclosed area. I believe there's even something in there about not using flexi-leashes. We're in the most densely populated, highly urbanized state in the country so it makes perfect sense. Greyhound groups across the country, I think, are pretty great about staying on message about greys and leashes. They care for the dogs, they've seen it all and they know pretty well that greys off-leash are just a recipe for disaster.

 

That said, I've seen a number of greys off lease acting perfectly fine. Couple years ago my girlfriend (now wife) were walking around a big lake up in Wellesley, MA. A couple walked past us, followed a few moments later by a female grey bobbing pleasantly behind them. We've taken Ellie around that same lake and she was going nuts over the chipmunks, and she's not high prey by any stretch. That other dog must be EXTREMELY low prey.

 

Also will never forget the time sitting in a pub in Dublin, Ireland and seeing a woman walk down a busy city street with two racing greys behind her - both off leash, still wearing their racing numbers. Crazy.

[Trihounds]

Not to oversimplify, but I think there are 2 reasons people may want to let their hound off leash, unfenced:

1) convenience. When hiking, from the car to the house, out the back door, etc.

2) to satisfy the dog. Let them stretch their legs a little, have some fun....we all know greys LOVE to run...so, seeing them happy makes us happy.

 

I know some people who very successfully let their hounds offleash and I've personally witnessed amazing recall. I've seen a hound wanting to please like a retriever. That is probably pretty rare. I know my two can't hear or see me when chasing eachother in our fenced yard. Mine do not have high prey drive, but they LOVE to chase. The little furries don's get them going on a (leashed) walks, but put another dog in the fenced yard with them and they'll beg it to run. I could never trust them off leash unfenced. They'd be G-O-N-E after whatever crossed their path, blind and deaf to anything but their running 'toy'...just for the fun of it.

 

I've participated in 2 GH searches, both ended with dead hounds in the winter. One was off leash for 4 years from the car to the house (and one winter day decided to explore the back forest) and the other was an accidental escape from the house. It happens and is not worth the risk for us.

[Guest BrindleBoy]

I for one would love to let Indy off-leash for a hike. A friend of mine hikes with a Jack Russell (a very high-spirited & active breed), and while the dog HAS taken off for short lengths of time, she always comes back. If my grey didn't run 45mph, I'd probably even give it a try someday. I totally understand the WANT to let the dog off-leash. But I could never forgive myself if anything ever happened.

 

And I personally think breeds get stereotyped: if you are "for" leashes at all times, it must be for ALL breeds. Greys are the fastest, but even a grey is a DOG first, and a grey second. Even before we adopted our grey I thought the whole "don't ever let a GREY off-leash" thing was fishy; meaning, it should read "don't ever let ANY DOG off-leash." It's not the breed, it's the species.

[sarabz]

To me, it's not worth it with a grey or any other dog. When I was a kid, living in a very rural area, we had various breeds of hunting dogs who would take off for hours and come back muddy, exhausted - and leaving my mom and I worried. (Why we didn't fence an area of the yard I don't know, but that's another story).

 

I later had a cocker spaniel who was glued to my side and never would have considered going anywhere - she was almost never on leash. She would watch rabbits, squirrels and birds romp across her path and couldn't be bothered to chase them.

 

But, I look at off leash like I look at riding a horse without a helmet - it may feel good for a few minutes and you might be able to do it hundreds of times without a consequence, but when something goes wrong, it can go REALLY wrong. It's just not worth the money and heartache, in my opinion. I've been riding for 30 years and only a handful of times have I been without a helmet for various reasons - I really don't like it, no matter how uncool it may look to wear an english riding helmet while riding in a Western saddle

 

Now, I will say that Bella has gotten out a couple of times while at my parents - they have four dogs, one of whom is adept at opening doors. She's stayed with the pack, I've realized immediately what happened and have taken steps to not let this happen again. I also ALWAYS carry high value treats with me when I'm there and have made it a recall game so that she knows I have treats and that she gets a BIG reward when coming to me. I'm not about to walk around the property with her or anything else silly, but am trying to make small steps toward a chance of her coming to me if she did get out again.

 

There are people who have extremely well-trained greys - Jennifer of Never Say Never Greyhoundsshows some amazing videos of recall work with her dogs. But, this is from a person who has spent a LOT of hours training recall and other exercises and holds herself and her dogs to strict standards. Direct quote from her website, under "Recalls" -

As you know, greyhounds are safest when on leash or in a fenced yard. It is foolish to believe that greyhounds with none, some, or even a lot of training can be trusted off lead. In my experience, it takes a special greyhound, overall respect for the human's authority, daily training and reinforcement, and a lifetime of ongoing practice to gain reliable off lead work. And even then, it is never 100%.

 

Ultimately, I don't trust my or DH's training (or untraining ) of Bella to be comfortable letting her offleash in an uncontrolled situation. We have hounds to be their caretakers and guardians, and to do this we need to use our best judgement, not what we think they would like. Kinda like kids, or so I'm told!

Edited July 11, 2011 by sarabz

[Hubcitypam]

I'd have to dig out my adoption agreement, but I think my adoption agreement states that you are actually a co-owner with the rescue as the other owner.

Never heard of that and would never sign that agreement.

Technically though, unless you have a signed blue slip, wouldn't the legal owner still be the racing owner?

I seem to faintly remember this coming in useful in an adopter abuse/neglect situation quite a while ago.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Never heard of that and would never sign that agreement.

Technically though, unless you have a signed blue slip, wouldn't the legal owner still be the racing owner?

I seem to faintly remember this coming in useful in an adopter abuse/neglect situation quite a while ago.

 

I hadn't heard of the co-owner situation, either. I know of a few groups where actual ownership supposedly stays with the group, but not co-ownership. I'm not sure that either if those is an advantage over a standard adoption, though. Whether it would make it easier to repo a dog is questionable and It opens the group up to liability.

 

As far as I'm aware the blue slip is only going to matter for ownership as far as NGA ownership for racing and breeding rights. Once a dog passes from a racing kennel to a group and then to an adoptive owner, it's a hard argument to make and I doubt you can make it without invalidating the ownership that the group had. It's an interesting idea though.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I've participated in 2 GH searches, both ended with dead hounds in the winter. One was off leash for 4 years from the car to the house (and one winter day decided to explore the back forest) and the other was an accidental escape from the house. It happens and is not worth the risk for us.

 

I think you're right about the two reasons.

 

It's interesting that both of those searches ended badly and both were escapes from near the home. When I started looking at the hound escapes and particularly those where either a dog wasn't found or wasn't found alive, I expected a lot of them to be hounds let deliberately off leash all the time all over the place, as some do no matter what anyone tells them. What I found was the opposite. More were escapes from homes or from cars near home than off somewhere or deliberately let in a field and almost none of them had ever been recall trained.

 

Until then, I had assumed that everyone with a dog, and especially a fast accelerating sighthound, trained recall. It never occurred to me that anyone concerned about their hound running off would rely on simply a leash. When I asked adoption groups, few to none were advocating it. I put it on my list of "things adoption groups don't tell you, but should" and talk it up to anyone who will listen.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Swifthounds

[Sighthounds4me]

Never heard of that and would never sign that agreement.

Technically though, unless you have a signed blue slip, wouldn't the legal owner still be the racing owner?

I seem to faintly remember this coming in useful in an adopter abuse/neglect situation quite a while ago.

 

I hadn't heard of the co-owner situation, either. I know of a few groups where actual ownership supposedly stays with the group, but not co-ownership. I'm not sure that either if those is an advantage over a standard adoption, though. Whether it would make it easier to repo a dog is questionable and It opens the group up to liability.

 

As far as I'm aware the blue slip is only going to matter for ownership as far as NGA ownership for racing and breeding rights. Once a dog passes from a racing kennel to a group and then to an adoptive owner, it's a hard argument to make and I doubt you can make it without invalidating the ownership that the group had. It's an interesting idea though.

 

I agree. Possession is 9/10 of the law. Once a dog is willingly handed over to another entity, the bulk of ownership lies with whoever possesses the dog. even if paperwork says otherwise. At least, that's how it is in WI.

[krissy]

Until then, I had assumed that everyone with a dog, and especially a fast accelerating sighthound, trained recall. It never occurred to me that anyone concerned about their hound running off would rely on simply a leash. When I asked adoption groups, few to none were advocating it. I put it on my list of "things adoption groups don't tell you, but should" and talk it up to anyone who will listen.

 

I totally agree. I can't understand why groups don't take a more active role in advocating for obedience classes with greys. Sure, some don't excel, and some aren't overly enthused, but it's a great way to build a relationship with your dog and it can save your dog's life. Tricks aren't necessary. I know some people are just not the training types. They don't really enjoy training. That's fine, don't train your dog to sit or lay down or shake a paw. But I believe that every dog needs to know 2 things. Come and stay. The rest is all bonus.

[Guest greytgrandma]

leashed 100% unless in a secure fenced area. We never take a chance with our beloved Hot Rod.

Edited July 11, 2011 by greytgrandma

[Yamaha_gurl]

That's fine, don't train your dog to sit or lay down or shake a paw. But I believe that every dog needs to know 2 things. Come and stay. The rest is all bonus.

 

So true...I'll admit, I did things wrong. This is a wake up call for Bella and I. Who cares if she can shake a paw...when the weather gets better, we are going to work on this outside, inside her re-call is 99%.

[Guest AmHoneyBunny]

 

But I believe that every dog needs to know 2 things. Come and stay. The rest is all bonus.

 

To add to that list: LEAVE IT.

 

"Leave it" is the FIRST thing I train. I don't want my dogs picking something up that is potentially hazardous to them, especially my Goldens. My goldens would pick up and "give" you a piece of broken glass, a pill, dead bird, knife, etc.

I had a dog that LOVED to pick glass ornaments off the christmas tree, she visited the vet's office to remove broken glass from her mouth. NOT FUN.

[sarabz]

 

To add to that list: LEAVE IT.

 

"Leave it" is the FIRST thing I train. I don't want my dogs picking something up that is potentially hazardous to them, especially my Goldens. My goldens would pick up and "give" you a piece of broken glass, a pill, dead bird, knife, etc.

I had a dog that LOVED to pick glass ornaments off the christmas tree, she visited the vet's office to remove broken glass from her mouth. NOT FUN.

 

This!! Especially living in the city, "Leave it!" is invaluable. I watched a woman scold, yell at and beg her spaniel mix to open his mouth the other day. She was trying to pry open his jaws to get something he had picked up. So glad that I'm not in that situation - Bella will rarely even try to pick anything up anymore, including pizza crusts, chicken bones and even dropped a live pigeon she had caught when told "leave it"!

[Zachary]

The adoption contract I signed when I was indoctrinated into the cult of Greyhound specifically stated the dog was never to be off leash unless in a fully fenced area.

 

The couple that did my home visit were adamant about not using flexi leads (which I loathe) and not allowing the dog off lead. They were preaching to the choir, however.

 

I have a simple philosophy: An off-lead dog is potentially a dead dog. -- Not worth the risk and definitely not worth the heartbreak.

[vsrenard]

Leashed when appropriate, which is generally the standard. Zola, now that she is older, rarely strays from me and is not very prey-driven. In her younger days, she was prone to wandering and thus was never given off-leash privileges. Now she has them when when are in a safe area, such as the beach, where her only way out is past me and DH (she moves too slowly for this to be an issue).

 

Brin is more of a spook and while we work on recall constantly, I would not chance being off-leash with her in a non-secure environment.

 

I do recommend working on recall with all of your hounds in a secure place. Even if it only works sometimes, that sometime may save your dog's life.

[vsrenard]

 

 

Thank you for that info! I certianly did not want to put anyone on the defense with that question - I really was curious. I think the pictures and videos of hounds having a blast running through waves are awesome. I guess my question was more of a "how could you do this safely" for those of you who have. I will def have to keep my eye out for sandbars! It seems a shame that they can't really go running where ever there is a clearing, but my pup isn't worth the accidents that can happen if I can't do it in a safe way.

 

 

We have several 'multiple acre' parks here that are fully fenced. My dogs never make use of them because they are always attached to me. The beach is our best bet for Zola. Brin is afraid of the waves so I have no running/frolicking pics of her. Lots of roaching pics, and ones of her staring up at space waiting for her aliens to take her home.

 

 

[RobinM]

never. I don't want them to get hit by a car and die.

[Guest Greyhoundbaby]

Our hounds are ALWAYS on leash if there is no fence. ALWAYS.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Always leashed. Been involved in too many Amber Alert searches that ended with dead dogs.

[Guest maidmarcia]

Thanks for all these replies! I'm not taking offence to any of these words of advice and find these stories very interesting.

 

Right now I live in the downtown area of my city so I would never walk with him through that area off a leash.

 

I was more wondering about hiking on back trails outside of the city.

[PrairieProf]

When I am in New York State, I go hiking with a greyhound group there on trails in a state park. A number of the members of the group do regularly let their greys off leash back in the woods. (One of these is my parents' neighbor and she also lets her girl off leash around her house -- we live on a small private road.) It is breathtaking to see the hounds running through the woods having a wonderful time and I am amazed at how they spontaneously come back to check in with their people -- something I can never picture Beth doing (she sure doesn't do it at the dog park -- she's pretty independent-minded). Nonetheless it does really shock me that they do this, and I'd never do it myself -- I couldn't live with the anxiety or the grief and guilt if something happened.

Edited July 12, 2011 by PrairieProf

[Guest manawatugal]

My dog is always leashed unless in a secured fenced area as I've only had him a few months. My inlaws let their border collie off leash at our local river walk as do most of the dog owners there, it's away from main roads etc, in fact my dog is one of the few who is leashed. I don't think we should tell other people whether they should or shouldn't leash their greyhounds, surely they know their dog best and if they feel comfortable letting it do that then so be it. I have a greyhound friend who always lets hers off leash in known areas as it doesn't wander off and she's happy doing that, I'm not but I certainly think it's up to the individual. Unless of course the dog is aggressive etc.

We have only a few unleashed areas in my town and I think if you have a well trained dog then let it have a good run - I wish I could but I just don't trust my boy as he always wants to chase anything small that moves.