Pooping Involuntarily In House

[Guest dwolfe711]

Haven't been on the board much lately due to trying to finish a big project for a convention I am chairing in September and our 7-day cruise last week to the Bahamas - I'm sure I won't get much sympathy on that second one!!

 

Before we left for the cruise we noticed Ellie appeared to be having some minor rearend issues - she was sagging when she stood still sometimes and we had one or two poops in the house which we attributed to her due to size and amount and then I actually saw her doing it. She was very upset that I saw her and it appeared to just "come out" as she walked toward the door. Since we got back Sunday we noticed her dragging her one rear leg a bit when she walks but no more pooping until yesterday when we found poop twice and then this morning she walked into the bedroom while I was getting ready for work and looked at me with this look of panic and then I realized little turds were coming out as she walked toward me. She was very upset and laid down and just put her head under her paw like she was so embarrassed. I cleaned it up (thank doG we feed raw!) and flushed it and kept telling her it was alright and it wasn't her fault.

 

Anyone have any idea what we're dealing with here? She's going to be 12 in April but has always been our healthiest grey - she did not race and is very active and does not look or act her age. She has slowed a bit this past year but we've never seen this problem in any of our greys except briefly in our Allie before we lost her at 15.5 and Lizzy before we lost her at 14.5 - they both had arthritis in the rearend and weakness.

 

Ellie is my monkey and my heart dog - I don't want to admit that she is getting old - I always thought she'd be like a young pup forever - but she really is starting to slow down - and now this -

 

Any thoughts? Just hoped to pick your grey-savvy brains before scheduling an appt with the vet -

 

Thanks, Donna

[IndyandHollyluv]

Hi Donna. Poor Ellie. I'm sure she was quite embarrassed! I just posted under "Pain and Confused" -- the old male hound that I adopted last summer (now 12+) and who collapsed due to back issues in January, recently pooped in the house as he could not hold it. He was at the door but the poop came out before I could open it! He, too, looked extremely embarrassed and as if his dignity had been compromised.

 

Can be from any of the old dog back and rear-end weakness issues. Muscle and/or nerve damage such that the sphincter just doesn't "sphinct" (as I like to say) so well any more.

 

I think it's the same for we humans (that's why they make Depends). It's a sad day when we lose control of our bowels!

 

You can certainly get her checked out but I would guess it's related to back and hind-end woes. Getting old isn't for sissies, as they say.

 

This is for Ellie

Edited February 17, 2011 by IndyandHollyluv

[packmom]

It sounds very much like Lumbrosacal Stenosis. The back legs get weak, somethimes one side a little more than the other. Trouble getting up, toes knuckling under while walking and losing bowel control. Like they don't even know they're doing it?

Accupuncture is working very well for Shilo but it did not on my other old guy.

[kudzu]

It is so hard to see these changes occurring. Many things could be causing this. Have you had her checked by a vet? When was her last blood work done? if not recent you may want to get the done. Though it certainly sounds like neurological problems it could also be from pain or a combination of both. Dragging a foot sounds neurological but depending on how it is done it could also be that lifting it up or moving in a more normal stride is painful. Pain can also be exhausting which makes walking difficult. But with the stealth poos it certainly appears there is some nerve damage.

 

When one of mine started with hind end probs it became clear there were neurological problems part of the rule outs were spinal issues such as lumbosacral disease or stenosis, disc probs, etc. Along the way, & not necessarily in order, we also checked for TBD's, thyroid, parathyroid, adrenal probs-Cushing's or Addison's, B-12 deficiency from GI malabsorption, renal & liver function, etc. This particular dog ended up having an idiopathic polyneuropathy, a lower motor neuron disease, as well as renal insufficiency. And I guess I should add that we also looked for signs of the big C as neoplasms can sometimes cause this.

 

My senior Grey had arthritis that over time made exercise more difficult leading to some muscle loss. He also had a chronic form of leukemia that complicated that so over time his back end became weak. That some to precede his LS but it could have already been brewing. Did one cause the other? Which came first, chicken or egg?

 

Anyway, a good physical exam and blood work would seem the place to start. Some causes are treatable with resulting improvement of hind end strength & possible resolution of fecal incontinence. Others can be managed to help limit the problem. In the meantime you can try to monitor when the incontinence is happening & revise her potty schedule to try to avoid this. You can also... um... well, stimulate her to go when you take her out as sometimes a dog with this problem may not recognize they need to & thus not go when they should. Meaning it seems sometimes it isn't that they don't have sphincter strength or control. They have a loss of sensation that tells them they need to & suddenly... plop.

 

Hope you find some answers soon & get your spring chicken back.

[brandimom]

This is the same situation at our house, pee incontinence and poop incontinence. Brandi has the hind end weakness and now can not feel her pee or poop come out. Most of the time she is lying in it when we are sleeping or at work. Holistic vet said there is nothing that can be done except for diapers. We will not do diapers but will continue to pick it up. Not sure acupuncture would help at this point but would not hurt to discuss it with vet.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

My parents had a springer with this issue, she had hind end weakness due to her age and a mild stroke. Apart from that she was perfectly happy and active.I'm afraid I have no advice but I hope you can get some answers at the vet - hugs to you and your girl.

[Guest greytbookert]

Our Annie had this issue. Her back was a mess. She would look so upset when she noticed poo coming out and would run to the door to be let outside.

 

Acupuncture might help depending on the root cause of the issue. I hope Ellie feels better soon!

[brandimom]

On this particular forum I have mentioned prolotherapy for pain relief which my Brandi received from the holistic vet. My Animal Wellness magazine just arrived and there is a greyt article on prolotherapy in it.

[Guest dwolfe711]

Thanks for all the great info - we have an appt for Ellie at the vet on Monday evening - we'll see what she has to say. We've used an excellent accupuncturist for two of our other senior babies with a lot of success (for arthritic weak rearends) and after we go to the vet we will probably give her a call to see if accu. can help Miss Ellie, too! Keeping fingers crossed for my little monkey girl!!

 

Donna

 

P.S.- Brandimom - Thanks - I got your pm but GT won't let me reply to it - not sure what's up with that.

[DonnaBehr]

Buddy had LSS for the last two years of his life and for the last 6 months, he didn't know he had to poop at times.

 

I think the pain - of lack of pain due to meds - was such that he couldn't feel whether or not he had to go. I would send him outside and he would be out there for a while and sometimes he would come back in and poop right inside. Other times he would walk toward the door and not be able to make it out in time. He never had urinary incontinence and thank goodness he always had solid poops. We had to send him to the bridge at 13.

 

Hope you get some answers about Ellie.

[greyhead]

If it's LSS, we get great results from acupuncture! But we haven't reached the poop-leaking point yet.

[GreyTzu]

Definitely sounds like LS. Your Vet can rule out other things and acupuncture will help. Supplements will also help, like borage oil, fish and Vit, E, boswellia, flexseed oil and we had positive results with Springtime Inc. supplements.

 

Night poops happen with older dogs

 

Probably with older people too.

 

I can't wait.

 

:lol

 

Good luck and hope your baby gets good results.

[marion]

My beloved Ivy had those poop issues in the house 8 months before he psased on a daily basis. He had serious rear end problems due to a spine problem and he just had lost control of his

sphincter. Normally those problems indicate an underlying spine problem. I hope that in your hounds' case it's something that will go away...

[Guest KennelMom]

Bucky came to us with this issue. It was one of the reasons he was re-homed He would poop in his sleep. If he was awake, sometimes he would be aware at the last second and try to get up and run to the door. In the yard, he didn't squat to poop, it just kinda fell out as he walked. Poor bub. He had a lot of other hind-end weakness. It wasn't LS, though as a "well, let's see if this works" we did try the depo-medrol injection and it did nada. There just wasn't anything we could do. The vet surmised it was just damage to the nerve at some point.

 

Hopefully your girl has something that can be easily treated and fixed

[Batmom]

2 things that helped our elderly whippet: Lower-residue food, and taking him outside right before and right after meals. Gentle scritchies to your sweet girl.

[GeorgeofNE]

Sure sounds like LS to me.

 

My George has a mild case, andI was told that fecal incontinence is quite common as the condition progresses.

[Guest dwolfe711]

The vet thinks it may be degenerative myelopathy(SP?). We are giving her deramax for a week to see how that does. I need to do some research. Our vet had not heard of LS - is this a common ailment? Ellie seemed to be more active this morning after one dose and she was playing a bit which she hasn't done much lately - so maybe the meds are helping. Thanks for the comments - I will continue to update.

[JJNg]

LS would be a more likely diagnosis in a greyhound than degenerative myelopathy (DM). DM is seen a lot in certain breeds, like German shepherds, but not a common diagnosis in greys. The fact that you may be seeing some improvement with Deramaxx is also more consistent with LS than DM (which really doesn't respond to any treatment). Here are a couple articles on LS:

 

http://www.greythealth.com/lumbosacral.html

 

http://grassmereanimalhospital.com/cauda_equina.htm