Bp Meds

[Figma]

I've never had a dog I had to give BP meds to. Was wondering if any of you have and, if so, which ones?

My vet has prescribed Enalapril, 10 mg, once a day, which I haven't started yet.

 

any feedback? Side effects?

[oldrunners]

My Beggar is on 20mg Enalapril 1ce/day. He is also on Norvasc generic 10mg 2ce/day. He goes in for a blood pressure reading every 6 months. I haven't noticed any side effects, and he's been medicated for about 2 1/2 years now. He's almost 10 1/2, and he's a big boy at 88lbs.

[Guest Energy11]

My Curfew is on Enalapril 20 mg/ daily. He has what we think was a huge stroke about 2.5 years ago. His BPs were checked again and again at the vets, and always ran HIGH, so the vet put him on the above dosage. NO side effects at all, and his BPs are NICE AND NORMAL (*I take them from time to time with an infant BP cuff :-))

 

Hoping evetrything goes well with your baby, too!

[Rickiesmom]

Jaynie is on Benazepril (20 mg) and Amlodipine (5 mg) per day, both split between AM and PM.

[Figma]

Thanks so much for the replies. I'll feel a little better giving it to him then.

He only had that one high BP but he was sick and really stressed at the Vet's office.

Took him back the next morning and it was still high but lower then the day before.

I still have a sinking feeling something else is going on with him besides/or including kidney issues.

[Guest tricolorhounds]

Copper is on Benazepril, 10mg... 1 a day, we give it to him at night. Our Vet heard a heart murmur and found protein in his urine. She referred us to the Internal Medicine Specialist. Copper had abdominal and chest ultrasounds and the Vet thought that his heart problem would probably not progress but that he had... oh, I can't remember what he called it but a form of kidney disease. The BP meds reduce the swelling in the blood vessels supplying blood to the kidneys.

 

He has been on meds since September and has had no issues.

 

Good thing about this is that the meds are $4.00 at Target.

[EllenEveBaz]

Scout did well on Enalapril for several years due to his kidney/protein problems. I don't remember the dosage. He never actually developed high blood pressure -- it was more of a preventative and aid for his other circulation problems (vasculitis). I couldn't see any side effects in him. We also fed him a low phosphorus diet and had accupuncture done for kidneys. We also followed (sort of -- it's not really set up for dogs) the Chinese "cooling foods" program. He had a good life up to age 13.

 

Best of luck to your boy.

[Figma]

Scout did well on Enalapril for several years due to his kidney/protein problems. I don't remember the dosage. He never actually developed high blood pressure -- it was more of a preventative and aid for his other circulation problems (vasculitis). I couldn't see any side effects in him. We also fed him a low phosphorus diet and had accupuncture done for kidneys. We also followed (sort of -- it's not really set up for dogs) the Chinese "cooling foods" program. He had a good life up to age 13.

 

Best of luck to your boy.

 

Can I ask what low phosphorus diet you were feeding?

thanks so much for the info

[GreyTzu]

Canine Kidney info.

[packmom]

Same here. Angel had borderline kidey issues her whole life but did fine with Enalipril and Amlodopine.

[Figma]

Canine Kidney info.

 

Thanks for the link.. I have been on that site reading. Can get pretty complicated to try and figure that stuff out.

 

Same here. Angel had borderline kidey issues her whole life but did fine with Enalipril and Amlodopine.

 

As Ranger's BP was so elevated at the Vet's office last week, he had me bring him back in the next day to recheck it. The BP was high but not like the day before!!! Vet wants to try and keep the pressure down in the kidneys. I gave the first BP med this morning but I had to go out. Came home and was glad to see him still alive. LOL!!! Hate giving meds and not being able to stick around. He seems to be eating the Taste of the Wild food pretty well. He wasn't feeling too well yesterday but then finally ate last night. From what I read, good to add something to those foods so I added some rice last night. Fingers crossed. He still looks so thin but seems active, well, no less active then he has ever been and still waits for *dad* to take him on his daily walks.

[joejoesmom]

One of my 14 year old whipadors (whippet/lab) has been on enalapril for over two years with no problems. Blood pressure is typically about 150 in the vets office now.

 

Her littermate has had kidney issues for a year and a half. We first had her on Iams early stage renal diet. This brought the protein in her urine down to 1+ from 3+. Her blood pressure has been okay without medication. Recently, she has had an increase in protein again and less time between going out (now down to about every 4-5 hours). We've switched her to Hills k/d which has less protein than the early stage Iams. Prescription Purina also has a kidney formula but this gives my Shelby diarrhea. You might need to experiment with different dry foods to find the right one. Of course, a homemade diet can be as cheap as a prescription diet but not as convenient.

 

The first thing to do is ensure that the proteinuria is not caused by an infection. If the culture is negative, then a protein/creatinine ratio is done. If this indicates kidney disease, the first step is to reduce phosphorus in the diet and treats. Controlling BP is also essential. You might want to talk to your vet about a phosphorus binder.

 

Be sure that whatever protein your dog is getting is from a high quality source. Bone meal is high in phosphorus. Fish based diets usually contain bones so they are out. I believe (but have not confirmed) that potatoes are high in phosphorus. Most animal based proteins have some amount of phosphorus. Non-prescription kibble does not list phosphorus content.

 

If this doesn't lower the protein in the urine to an acceptable level, then you need to reduce the protein in the diet.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

[MaryJane]

You may want to get a kidney diet from a nutritional vet that can also look at the medicines and the lab work and make recommendations based on that. The vet that I have used is Dr Remaillard at Angel Memorial Hospital in Boston. Note, she does phone consults.

[EllenEveBaz]

Can I ask what low phosphorus diet you were feeding?

 

Until Scout's last few months, I mixed low phosphorous kibble (Royal Canin maxi weight care, or Merrick campfire trout feast, or something similar) with added low phosphorus foods such as bacon, 80% fat hamburger, dark chicken meat with skin, cream cheese, half-and-half, and sweet potatoes. I wasn't confident about getting balanced nutrition, so I added a dog multivitamin/mineral supplement and lots of omega 3 oil, which is supposed to be good for general kidney function.

 

I chose commercial kibbles with low phosphorus off of one of the links on the Canine Kidney info. website that GreyTzu posted. Figma, you wrote --

Thanks for the link. I have been on that site reading. Can get pretty complicated to try and figure that stuff out.

You're right -- it is complicated. That's why I love that website -- you can reach a ton of different articles and get much more in-depth and well-rounded info. than when you read just a few simple things that say, "Do this and do that."

 

I fed my first greys a Royal Canin kibble and liked it but its maxi weight care kibble is high in corn/grains. Joejoesmom, whose opinion I respect, posted that

Bone meal is high in phosphorus. Fish based diets usually contain bones so they are out. I believe (but have not confirmed) that potatoes are high in phosphorus.

The Merrick trout kibble has one of the lowest non-prescription phosphorus levels around. I think I remember that much of the phosphorus in bones comes from the marrow?? Do fish bones have marrow? [Hangs head in biology dunce shame.] White potatoes are relatively high in phosphorus for a vegetable, but sweet potatoes are much lower and also have great nutritional value.

 

I'm sure that the low phosphorus/high fat animal product add-ins to Scout's food were a big reason for his bout of acute pancreatitis in his last few months. But if they also helped him have almost 3 happy years after his glomerulonephritis diagnosis, maybe it was a worthwhile trade-off.

 

PS: There's some research that shows that Enalapril also helps kidney function in general in dogs, in addition to helping control blood pressure.

[joejoesmom]

Joejoesmom, whose opinion I respect, posted that

Bone meal is high in phosphorus. Fish based diets usually contain bones so they are out. I believe (but have not confirmed) that potatoes are high in phosphorus.

The Merrick trout kibble has one of the lowest non-prescription phosphorus levels around. I think I remember that much of the phosphorus in bones comes from the marrow?? Do fish bones have marrow? [Hangs head in biology dunce shame.] White potatoes are relatively high in phosphorus for a vegetable, but sweet potatoes are much lower and also have great nutritional value.

 

I'm sure that the low phosphorus/high fat animal product add-ins to Scout's food were a big reason for his bout of acute pancreatitis in his last few months. But if they also helped him have almost 3 happy years after his glomerulonephritis diagnosis, maybe it was a worthwhile trade-off.

 

PS: There's some research that shows that Enalapril also helps kidney function in general in dogs, in addition to helping control blood pressure.

 

The info on fish came from OSU. They were specifically answering a question on canned salmon. Canned salmon includes the vertebrae and other large bones. I would imagine that fish have bone marrow like other vertebrates but I couldn't swear by it. I am sure it is possible to have a fish diet that is low in phosphorus if care is taken. FYI, according to nutrition-data.com, canned tuna fish (water pack, with salt) has 250 mg of phosphorus per cup (179 kcal). The goal is to have less than 60 to 150 mg of phosphorus for 100 kcal (depending on the severity of the kidney disease). Canned tuna comes in at 140mg per 100kcal. Canned salmon is 270 mg per 100kcal. Rice is 33 mg/100kcal. So a main diet of tuna and rice (50percent of calories from each) would give only 87 mg per 100 kcal -- a good kidney diet.

 

Other common foods we love to give our dogs:

 

raw boneless, skinless chicken breast -- 178 mg phosphorus/ 100kcal

beef liver, raw -- 284 mg / 100 kcal

raw ground beef, 10 percent fat -- 104 mg / 100kcal

raw ground beef, 25 percent fat -- 50 mg / 100 kcal

 

You can see how adding fat increases the calorie count, thereby reducing the amount of phosphorus in 100 kcal. But adding fat creates a higher risk for pancreatitis.

 

In any case, far more info than anyone asked for. Sometimes I just get on a roll ...........

 

Here is the website in case you are as detail oriented and obsessive as I am:

 

http://nutritiondata.self.com/

 

just enter the food name in the search box. Then select the exact food you want. Scroll down to get nutrition data in excruciating detail (including phosphorus).

[Figma]

I don't know if I mentioned here that I had contacted Dr Dodds in So. Calif. She has been very good in answering some of my concerns. First thing she told me was to NOT use a prescription diet, of which I had just picked up a case of the ID food. LOL!! She also suggested either feeding Wellness, Eagle Holistic, Natural Balance, etc. I had a dog that wasn't eating at all.

After trial and error with some samples, I'm now feeding the Natural Balance Fish and Sweet Potato with a little of the canned (same) added. It is Protein 21% and Fat 10% with Phosphorus of .9% minimum.

For the past week, except for yesterday, he has been eating a good two meals a day. He still continues to drink more water, stools are normal, etc. I may take him to the Vet's office this week to get another weight on him because he doesn't look like he has gained any and still looks awfully thin. He is on the BP meds once a day and Pepcid twice a day. Dr. Dodds suggested I increase that to 20 mg instead of 10 mg.

I did pick up some of the green tripe but haven't opened it yet due to what everyone is saying about the smell. LOL!!

From what I've read (and haven't read everything) seems latest research shows the protein is not as much of a concern as the Phosphorus with renal issues.

Any thoughts? At least he is finally eating something.

[EllenEveBaz]

From what I've read (and haven't read everything) seems latest research shows the protein is not as much of a concern as the Phosphorus with renal issues.

Yes, that's what I understand, too -- at least in the early and moderate stages. A low protein diet may not be needed until the late stages.

 

Glad he's eating. Are you giving him any treats besides the canned food? Did you see the info. in the articles about being able to reduce phosphorus levels by adding calcium and foods high in potassium to the diet?

 

I forgot that one of the things Scout absolutely loved was a white egg omelet (yolks have phosphorus) with just a little cream cheese for flavor.

[Batmom]

I used to say that, too, but it turns out that the phosphorus thing -- "phosphorus is the problem, not protein" -- is an oversimplification. A red herring, if you will. First, all protein is high in phosphorus. You can't meaningfully reduce phosphorus without reducing protein, altho phosphorus binding drugs are sometimes used. Even if there were protein without phosphorus, the protein would still be a problem too. Beyond early-stage kidney disease, the kidneys can no longer clear the byproducts of protein metabolism from the blood. Those byproducts are poisonous. You see them in the bloodwork in an increasing BUN. There are no binders for that, only dialysis.

 

Whether it would be helpful to limit protein yet or not depends on the individual dog's disease stage and disease manifestations.

[Guest mcsheltie]

What Batmom said. It is a "Catch 22"

 

Protein, even high protein diets are not harmful to healthy kidneys. At the onset of renal disease phosphorus (and sodium) restriction is the way to go. I believe kidney diets should be started much earlier than most vets prescribe. The Catch 22 is that meat (protein) is high in phosphorous. At the beginning stage the best thing to feed are proteins that are at the top of the bio-availability chart, such as fish and eggs. These will put the least amount of strain on the kidneys. Mix these with sticky rice to bring the Phos content down further, while keeping the calorie count up. The rice adds some B Vits and other nutrients too. Take a look at nutritiondata.com. You will see that whole brown rice has something like (I am going off memory here...) 165 mg of Phos per cup. While sticky rice (the type you use in sushi) has 12 mg per cup. Balance with a therapeutic dose of Omega 3 and a vita/mineral supplement. When they get a bit farther along start adding a Phosphorus binder. When they get to end stage you need to restrict protein.

[Figma]

Oh, this all seems so confusing.

I was told the protein content of grain-free foods will always be higher (because they don’t have the bulk protein being wheat or corn or soy – cheaper protein sources) but you feed less of it to maintain caloric needs.

When his blood work was done on the 7th, his BUN was within the normal range.

My Vet said there is protein in his urine.

I am feeding him the Fish and Sweet Potato and I did pick up some of the Bison and Sweet Potato canned and the Fish and Sweet Potato canned. I add maybe 2 Tlbs per meal and he is eating. Still drinking a lot of water but he still seems active, for him, goes on his walks, etc.

A couple of friends of mine have worked with a nutritionist (have that info some place) and she had them feeding the sticky rice. I think you have to order that?

 

Something just makes me feel something else is going on here besides possible renal failure but none of the tests, as far as I know, are showing much of anything.

 

Thanks for all the help, appreciate it. Just don't want to kill my poor dog.

[Batmom]

If there's protein in the urine after a week or so on the bp meds and his BUN and creatinine remain well normal, I'd continue to look for other causes such as infection. Might be worth sending the urine to an outside lab that can perform the urinalysis by methods other than dipstick.

[Figma]

Hasn't had his urine rechecked and my Vet sent the original sample to an outside lab and had two tests run on it.

If there's an infection, don't know where it might be. His WBC was actually low and a few others were slightly off (Low or High). X rays and the ultrasound didn't really show much except maybe a possible thickening in the lower intestine which two Vets think may be a food issue that's why it was suggested I put him on the fish diet.

He had been on the Blue Chicken for Seniors.