Biopsy Results In

[Guest RiverCityGang]

I'm so sorry. It's got to be hard no matter what the age , but 4 is just way too young !

[Charlies_Dad]

Jess, I am sorry to hear that cancer was confirmed. I was truly hoping it wasn't. I can say that having a tripod, they are incredible and will surprise you every day. Charlie has not slowed down and nothing prevents him doing what he did when he had all four legs. If you have any questions about the amp/chemo experience, feel free to contact me.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

I'm so sorry.

[Wonder]

[queenwinniesmom]

This is a horrible time. Trying to make a life changing decision so quickly just doubles the stress of this devastating diagnosis. I think once the decision is made and you have a plan, you have more focus. You do what you feel is right for your girl and don't second guess. I think Dr. Couto's team definitely needs to see X-rays ASAP.

I just want to scream when I see so many hounds being diagnosed with osteo. And it is especially infuriating and heartbreaking in one so young.

Please know that you and Lucy are in LOTS of prayers!

[RedFawnMom]

This is a horrible time. Trying to make a life changing decision so quickly just doubles the stress of this devastating diagnosis. I think once the decision is made and you have a plan, you have more focus. You do what you feel is right for your girl and don't second guess. I think Dr. Couto's team definitely needs to see X-rays ASAP.

I just want to scream when I see so many hounds being diagnosed with osteo. And it is especially infuriating and heartbreaking in one so young.

Please know that you and Lucy are in LOTS of prayers!

Thanks. Dr. Couto has seen all the X-rays...the presentation was very atypical in the radiographs, which is why we did the biopsy. I E-mailed him the pathologist's report and the bloodwork, and the lab is going to FedEx him the actual slides overnight. Though at this point, Dr. Couto is basically saying to assume it's osteo since it's more common. I guess I'm just hoping he can tell us if it's at an early or late stage....or give some kind of guidance about what we can expect given her age....I don't even know.

[PrairieProf]

I am so sorry, and sending you all good and strong thoughts. I have a four year old girl too, and I can't even imagine what you're going through.

[RobinM]

4 years is mind blowing. Really.

 

We did the amp and had 5 pain free months.

 

Sending major prayers your way.

 

 

[joejoesmom]

I replied in the osteo thread.

 

I did amp/chemo for my 7 year old Joe. I haven't regretted it at all. So it it were me, with what you have said, I would do the amp (assuming you could afford the amp and all the follow up chemo treatment -- at least the IV chemo administration and the lower cost version of a metronomic protocol). Here would be my reasoning:

 

1) Lucy is young. If she is in the 10 to 15 percent who beat this, she would have many years left.

2) I have seen many greyhounds with 3 legs. They get along just great. I have never heard of one not adapting well to three legs. They are narrow so it is easier for them to balance than other large dogs. They are light for their size

3) It appears that it has been caught early, improving her chances (I have not heard this from doctors but it makes sense).

4) Even if she doesn't totally beat it, her remaining time will be happy and pain free.

5) She does not have other medical conditions that would jeopardize her recovery.

6) You appear willing to help in her recovery for the first week that she is home. (It is best if someone is with her nearly 24/7 for the first 3 to 7 days she is home)

 

Of course, there are others who would never do an amputation. It is such a personal decision for you and your family. You might want to ask yourself: "If she only gets 6 to 12 more months of pain free, happy life, would the surgery and 2 to 4 weeks of recovery have been worth it to her." "Would the costs put my family at risk?"

 

Please call me if I can be of any help:

Jane

614-523-0754

finewhipador-drool@yahoo.com

 

 

Jane

[RedFawnMom]

Thanks everyone. I think we've decided to do the amp. I am going to call the ortho vet in the morning. Lucy is a happy, outgoing, well-adjusted dog and DH and I both think she'd eventually be fine on three legs. She's young and otherwise healthy. I think that in her case, because she's such an active dog, it's in her best interest to do the amp than to do pain management until the inevitable fracture. She would not be happy with us hovering around her for the rest of her life, always worried and not encouraging her to play or run for fear of the bone breaking. I don't think that's what she'd choose for herself. If she were older, it might be different. But I can't give up on a four year old dog. We've had her only two years. Even if we get only six happy months post-amp, that's 1/4 of the time she's been in our lives already, and we'd fill that time with all of the things that make her happy. I'm just hoping with all of my might that we got it early, or that it's chondrosarcoma instead, and that we get many more happy years with her.

 

That's all we can do, right? Make a decision out of love and hope for the best.

[Guest Smiley]

I am so very sorry. Please know that I am keeping you and your baby close in thought and sending you both many gentle hugs . . .

[joejoesmom]

I think I may have said this to you already. If I have, I apologize.

 

Be sure to have the amputation done in a hospital that has 24/7 vet care in an ICU environment. In other words, the hospital should have a vet physically present at all hours and they should monitor Lucy's vitals regularly.

 

Be sure they use Amicar (aminocaproic acid) until 5 days post amputation. This is due to the greyhound inability to form strong clots. This drug is typically not used with other breeds of dogs so the vet may not be familiar with it and probably doesn't have it in stock.

 

Have the vet follow OSU's protocol. They average a leg amputation on a greyhound every week, so they know what they are doing. Your vet can contact OSU to receive information on their amputation protocol and chemotherapy. Have them contact:

 

Stephanie Yochem, Referral Coordinator

Ph: (614) 292-0950

Fx: (614) 292-1454

 

Jane

 

 

[joejoesmom]

I also wanted to add my list of things to do while she is in the hospital:

 

Things that you should do while your dog is in the hospital:

 

1) purchase rubber or vinyl backed runners. Home improvement stores (Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.) will sell this by the foot. It is 26 - 28 inches wide and however many feet long that you want it. You just need to provide a pathway through any room that has hard surface floors that she might need to walk through. You do not need to cover the entire surface. Scatter rugs will work as long as they do not slip or curl on the edges. If you don't already own these, the indoor/outdoor rubber backed runner is a bit less expensive and can be hosed down.

 

2) if your bedroom is not on the main floor, move a mattress to a room on the main floor where you and your dog can sleep. You do not want to carry the dog up and down the stairs (the incision will be sore) and you will not want him to try the steps on his own.

 

3) If you have more than 3 or 4 stairs to go outside, you might want to invest in a ramp. You can make one yourself. If you don't have a long flight of steps, a ramp for use in a car might be long enough. You will need to figure out a way to secure it. Most amputees learn to go up and down short flights of steps within a month or so, so you may not need a ramp for long.

 

4) Speaking of cars. If you have a SUV, you will need to purchase a ramp for your car -- unless you can bend over and lift your dog in and out of the backseat yourself. With a car or van, you probably will only have to lift in and out for a week or so.

 

5) If your dog has a favorite homemade food, make some and bring it to him in the hospital to help tempt him to eat.

 

6) You only want to visit your dog for his benefit, not yours. Some dogs will get excited at seeing their owners and then get very anxious and upset when their owner leaves them there. The vet staff should be able to advise you.

 

7) Get a sling. If it is a front leg amputation and you have a number of steps to go down, sew a strap to the center of the sling. Put velcro on the end of the strap and corresponding velcro on the side of the sling that is the non-amp side. When you use the sling, run the strap up the dogs chest and around the remaining front leg. Attach to the velcro on the side of the sling. This prevents the sling from slipping to the hindquarters of the dog if the dog gets ahead of you going down the steps.

 

8) Get lots of rest.

 

9) Prepare methods to prevent your dog from licking or scratching the incision. Some possibilities include: a muzzle with a stool guard attached (be sure to file the ends of the tie wraps to make them smooth); an adult size small or childrens large t-shirt and two rubber bands (put the t-shirt on the dog with the front leg through one arm hole. Use the two rubberbands to snug the shirt around the neck and the waist (to reduce tripping, pee incidents, etc); a vest or lightweight coat; a soft e-collar; and/or a sock and vet wrap for the rear paws if he tries to scratch.

 

10) Try to take time off work for the first 3 to 5 days he is home. If you must leave him alone, contain him in a crate so he can't roam and get in trouble.

 

11) You will need to get medications. If you are the only caregiver, take care of this before you bring your dog home. It is usually cheaper to get them at a human pharmacy. Unless the vet prescribes metacam for the NSAID, you will need to get the NSAID at the doctor's office. If he prescribes metacam, the same drug is available in human form as meloxicam. However, you might not be able to find the right size pill for your dogs weight. You definitely do not want to give a higher dosage and a lower dosage might not control the pain. IMHO, it is best to stick to a veterinary NSAID. You will also likely need tramadol and an antibiotic. Tramadol I believe is a $4 drug at Walmart (and Kroger will sell 60 50mg tablets for $4). Most of the antibiotics they might prescribe are also on the $4 list. They will also recommend something to keep his stomach calm. Famotidine (Pepcid) is commonly used and is available over the counter. If he has stomach upset, they might prescribe Carafate. The generic of this, sucralfate I believe is also a $4 drug. If not, it is pretty inexpensive at a human pharmacy.

 

12) The sutures are usually removed 2 weeks post-amp. IV Chemo is usually started at this point. So your vet should be talking to OSU about the available meds and the recommended greyhound protocol now.

 

Other comments:

 

At some point, you will question whether you did the right thing, this is totally normal.

 

Your dog may let out a scream or two -- this can be from pain or from distress when he goes to move and one of his legs is missing. This will pass.

 

Pay attention to panting and restlessness. This can be due to pain or it can be a reaction to the pain meds (primarily tramadol). If the panting improves within an hour or so of giving the pain meds -- it was likely due to pain. If it gets worse after giving the pain meds she may be having a reaction. If tramadol causes this type of adverse reaction, talk to your vet about switching him to something else.

 

It typically takes at least 2 to 3 weeks to start seeing your dogs personality re-emerge. It may take 4 to 5 weeks for him to show any interest in toys or other play. Usually by 6 weeks they are starting to participate fully in life again.

 

Please email or give me a call if you have any questions:

 

Jane

finewhipador-drool@yahoo.com

614-523-0754

[RobinM]

Another thing to add to the list. Ask your vet to wrap her on a compression body suit after the amp. It will minimize any bruising. Polly had NO briusing at all because of the compression suit. It's like a body suit that they put on after sugery. She did not have staples, only disolvable stitches. Also, have valium on hand for her. Sometimes they get a bit freaked and will scream out - not in pain but in fear. They are disjointed and confused. We found that 10mg of V every 24 hours was helpful for Polli for the first 2-4 days.

 

 

[fsugrad]

I am so sorry for this horrible diagnosis.

Sending lots of prayers out to you and Lucy.

[RedFawnMom]

Well, Lucy must know we're struggling with this decision, because last night she was sleeping on her bed in our room and bumped her leg on the wall while dreaming, and whimpered loudly and limped for a few minutes. I do NOT want her to be in pain, but knowing what the right thing to do is, is much easier when she shows us she's uncomfortable. (As a side note, I comforted her, got her back into bed and then went downstairs to get her some food and some Metacam to bring up to her, and wouldn't you know it, she came running down the stairs when she heard me open her food container... )

 

Thanks for the information. I just got off the phone with OSU and they answered a lot of my questions and will fax/Email me their protocols. Jane, I might call you this weekend with some other "what to expect" questions. Liliana at OSU actually suggested I come here (to GT) to talk to you guys about what to expect when we bring her home.

 

Unfortunately, I called the ortho vet's office and our vet there is off until Monday. And I can't schedule surgery without talking to her first, since (a) they need to order the Amicar and (b ) she needs to schedule it on a day when there will be staff there overnight. I practically begged the receptionist to have someone get in touch with her and ask her to call me at home. I don't want to waste anymore time.

 

I did get one piece of good news from OSU - I asked if they had any data about osteo being more aggressive in younger dogs and she said they don't and that she doesn't think that's true, her chances of it being very aggressive or less aggressive are the same as older dogs, so her age is actually a benefit since she's otherwise healthy and in good shape.

 

And for those of you who saw my post in the osteo thread about the increased water intake - we saw our local/regular vet last night to get a urinalysis and exam and everything was normal. The bloodwork we just had done was normal, so the vet doesn't think it's anything to worry about and doesn't think it's related to the cancer.

Edited January 27, 2011 by RedFawnMom

[NeylasMom]

Jess, glad to hear that the u/a and blood work were normal. I didn't want to say this before you made a choice b/c I didn't want to appear like I was trying to influence your decision, but as a person who is probably much farther on the don't amputate end of the scale, if I were in your situation I am pretty sure that I would choose amputation. Like someone else said, it's a crapshoot and you can't predict the future, but I think you're giving Lucy the best chance for more pain free time. For what little that may be worth.

 

I will be sending lots of good thoughts Lucy's way that she has a quick and painless recovery from the surgery. I hope you hear from your vet soon - I would hope they wouldn't make you wait until next week to talk to the vet. They should at least be able to order the amicar and do whatever else needs to be done to prepare so that you can have the surgery done early next week. If no one calls you back, i would be persistant and call again.

[Sambuca]

Jess, You are making the right choice for Lucy. Call if you need to talk, cry or vent.

[RedFawnMom]

Everything is scheduled for Tuesday. They weren't familiar with Amicar but the vet who will do the surgery did some research today and they will have both the IV and oral by tomorrow. I faxed them OSU's protocol and we went through it line by line. The vet is 2 hours away and now we have to decide if we'll get a hotel and stay up there while she's at the hospital, or come home. We might not even get to see her Tuesday night, and at home we'd have more things to keep us busy while we waited, but I just don't know that I can leave her there and be two hours away.

[Sambuca]

Jess I have some family up in MA. Where is the surgery and I can see if anyone lives near by and maybe give you a place to stay.

[MerlinsMum]

I'm only just seeing this, have been unable to spend time on GT for a few weeks. I am so, so sorry to hear about Lucy. :grouphug

 

You'll be in my thoughts.

[NeylasMom]

Glad everything is scheduled and the surgeon is taking all of your requests seriously. I don't think I would be able to leave myself, but I am a horrific worrier. I wouldn't be able to concentrate on anything no matter where I was so I guess I'd rather worry closer.

[robinw]

I'm so sorry, Jess. Keeping my fingers crossed for Lucy