To Amputate Or Not?

[Guest bigorangedog]

Okay, I hate to even write this post. As some of you know, we have lost FIVE dogs this year. Three of them have had osteosarcoma. The most recent two just died a month ago, one week apart from each other.

 

We added Whitey to our pack 2 weeks ago. He had not had a permanent home in 2 years, having been bounced around in temporary placements that whole time. He is a small silly white boy, and we already love him. He turned 11 years old in late August.

 

On Thursday he started to limp on his front left leg. He does play in the yard, so we thought MAYBE he had hurt a muscle. But of course, given the past year, I immediately started to worry. It didn't go away over the weekend so this morning we went in.

 

He has osteo in his shoulder. It is very early, but it is there.

 

We are sending the x-rays to OSU and did the bloodwork to see whether he is otherwise healthy enough to be an amputation candidate. We should have blood results tomorrow or Thursday.

 

So....Do we do an amputation on a 11-yr-old dog? On a dog who has only known us for 2 weeks? We barely know him, and have no idea how he will handle the surgery and recovery.

 

We have never done an amputation before. With our other osteo dogs...Tanner had it very high up in his hip, plus he had some lumbosacral stenosis, so he was not a candidate. Crisco had it in his spine. And Annie was our scaredly little nervous girl who would have been miserable the whole time, although hers was in the same place as Whitey's is and she was the same age as he is now.

 

Any advice is welcome.

[grey14me]

Oh how awful I don't know the answer...I guess no one does. How does he do with vet visits?

[Guest ctgreylover]

I have no advise, just hugs

[Guest SusanP]

First, to you. Second, maybe you should just concentrate on taking one step at a time. See what OSU says. Then search your souls. I can imagine how you feel--he's just finally landed in a place where he is loved after such a long search, and he hasn't had the time yet for you to make up for his past years of neglect.

 

I have no experience with the recovery process from amputation. I'm sure folks here will give you an honest idea of what to expect if you go that route.

 

I am not sure either way you go it will be "wrong". I'm so sorry for what you've gone through with this disease.

[Guest boondog]

Oh, no. I don't have any advice, but I wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you. You've been through so much.

[Guest Che_mar_Cody]

No advice either but sending you hugs and prayers your way

[MP_the4pack]

Dima had her leg amputated 2 weeks before her 12th BD.

 

She's doing GREYT!!

 

I have several updates thru H&M.

 

I did drive out to OSU and made sure all the doctor's there concurred with the decision to amputate. They did. However they said she would have a longer recovery time due to her age and the arthritis she has in her remaining wrist.

 

HA! Did she prove them wrong. She was operated on a Friday and to the surprise of her doctors, she was released from the hospital on that Monday. We drove 9 hrs home on Tuesday.

 

I did make a ramp for her to use instead of using the 6 stairs needed to get out of the house. But she has no problem with them.

And I can see she is happy to be pain free. (she did not jump into my SUV for 2 weeks prior to surgery because her leg hurt so much. But she is jumping in now. She refused to use her ramp which I had down for her). NOTE: no one is allowed to jump OUT of my SUV.

 

She is getting her remaining staples out today ( we had a tiny setback with an infection in a small area of her surgery site). But that's all better. She will start chemo probably within a week.

 

She's 3 weeks post amp now.

 

While people PM'd me and told me not to do such a thing to a 12 yr old, I can see that I did right by Diamond. She is her happy self again even if she can't do the long walks we used to do. We do shorter ones.

 

The first 2 weeks were the hardest and I think more because of the pain meds than actual pain at the surgical site. She did a lot of panting. But, that was pretty much it.

 

And if you can make it to OSU, there are people there who put you up for free. They are a greyhound support group at OSU. So you save on the hotel bill. And free chemo drugs that you can have your local vets administer.

 

And besides the support they give you, you will feel so comfortable to see greyhounds in the waiting room all the time. When Diamond was in surgery, the first grey I saw was a recent tripod. She was 9 and just 1 month post op. She looked terrific and made me feel much better.

 

Good luck. I know it was the HARDEST decision I've ever made. I angonized for the two weeks before I went out to OSU. It was brutal. And I left it up to the OSU doctors to tell it to me straight if she was indeed a candidate. If at her age she could survive as a tripod. If they said no, I would drive the 10 hrs back and just do pain management.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Smiley]

Oh no, you have had SO much loss and pain this last year and I'm so, so sorry you are facing this again. I have no words of advice other than just listen to your heart and it will tell you what to do. Sending you many hugs and good thoughts in the meantime.

[Guest Energy11]

I am sooo sorry to hear what you have been through this year! There really ARE no words!

 

I personally do not amputate. I just do palliative care (*pain management), BUT, amputation is a personal decision.

 

I would forward the x-rays to OSU, and go from there. They might be able to advise you on what the best option is.

 

I wish you the best, whatever you decide, and sending lots of love, hugs and prayers from here in the N. Ga. Mountains!

 

Love, Dee and The Five

[Guest Energy11]

Dima had her leg amputated 2 weeks before her 12th BD.

 

She's doing GREYT!!

 

I have several updates thru H&M.

 

I did drive out to OSU and made sure all the doctor's there concurred with the decision to amputate. They did. However they said she would have a longer recovery time due to her age and the arthritis she has in her remaining wrist.

 

HA! Did she prove them wrong. She was operated on a Friday and to the surprise of her doctors, she was released from the hospital on that Monday. We drove 9 hrs home on Tuesday.

 

I did make a ramp for her to use instead of using the 6 stairs needed to get out of the house. But she has no problem with them.

And I can see she is happy to be pain free. (she did not jump into my SUV for 2 weeks prior to surgery because her leg hurt so much. But she is jumping in now. She refused to use her ramp which I had down for her). NOTE: no one is allowed to jump OUT of my SUV.

 

She is getting her remaining staples out today ( we had a tiny setback with an infection in a small area of her surgery site). But that's all better. She will start chemo probably within a week.

 

She's 3 weeks post amp now.

 

While people PM'd me and told me not to do such a thing to a 12 yr old, I can see that I did right by Diamond. She is her happy self again even if she can't do the long walks we used to do. We do shorter ones.

 

The first 2 weeks were the hardest and I think more because of the pain meds than actual pain at the surgical site. She did a lot of panting. But, that was pretty much it.

 

And if you can make it to OSU, there are people there who put you up for free. They are a greyhound support group at OSU. So you save on the hotel bill. And free chemo drugs that you can have your local vets administer.

 

And besides the support they give you, you will feel so comfortable to see greyhounds in the waiting room all the time. When Diamond was in surgery, the first grey I saw was a recent tripod. She was 9 and just 1 month post op. She looked terrific and made me feel much better.

 

Good luck. I know it was the HARDEST decision I've ever made. I angonized for the two weeks before I went out to OSU. It was brutal. And I left it up to the OSU doctors to tell it to me straight if she was indeed a candidate. If at her age she could survive as a tripod. If they said no, I would drive the 10 hrs back and just do pain management.

I am soo glad Dima is doing soo well! I know, going to OSU was the reason :-))) I am happy for both of you, and if I were to ever consider doing an amputation, it would be through OSU.

[Guest BlackandBrindle]

I'm so sorry you have to go through this again.

 

To amputate or not is a highly personal decision. In this case I think the above poster who said take it a step at a time is right.

 

Personally, we've decided that we won't amputate for cancer. While there are wonderful cases of pups who beat the odds, it's few and far between unfortunately. But we've had our pups for years and know what they can and can't handle.

 

Good luck to you in whatever you decide.

[kikibean]

Jen, I feel so bad! I'm about ready to cry and literally feel physically sick. This is so not fair to either of you.

 

From what I know of his personality, I think he's one who would do OK w/ amputation. He seems like such an easy going

boy. I'm sure he knows how much you love him already.

 

Let me know if there's anything I can do.

 

 

[sweetdogs]

I'm so sorry you're facing this again. Almost unbelievable.

 

My 11 yo girl got osteo in her shoulder, high up near her spine. She was always terrified of the vet so I never thought of amputation for her. As it turned out, she did very well with all the visits we had to do (we did radiation in addition to pain meds/fosamax). If it's in his shoulder, that's a lot of real estate that will be amputated. My personal opinion is that I wouldn't do it. If he were younger, I'd consider it & hope like hell he would do as well as Diamond. But that decison is yours & there will be loads of support for you & Whitey either way.

[redlady]

Oh man. I let Radar go to the bridge yesterday. Same issue, same place, same age.

 

I based my decision on him. He was a laid back boy. No fighting, no drama, just mellow. He did not tolerate pain well, and recovery from an amp would have been terrible for him. He was pleading with me to let him go yesterday.

 

It's hard to make this decision on a pup you haven't had for a long time. But, the others are right. You need to find out your options, then search your heart and look into his eyes and decide what the best course of action is. Many hugs to you as you make this agonizing decision. Know that whatever you decide, you're doing it with your heart in the right place.

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

As others have mentioned, the decision to amputate is very personal. Morgan was 10.5 when his front leg broke from osteo. He was amputated and had 4 rounds of carboplatin. He lived another 3 years and didn't have a recurrence. But I also recognize, he beat the odds.

[MandysMom]

No advice, just

[greytluck]

I'm so sorry you have to go through this again, life's just not fair.

 

I have no advice just a

 

 

[Burpdog]

Although I am not a "fan" of amputation, some do very well. One of the reasons I did not consider amputation for Ivey and Mahogany: they refused to 3 leg it, Ivey was "portly" and Mahogany screamed if you touched her feet, and they were both 11. I would be more apt to do one on a younger dog, although older ones many times do well.

 

Pablo was 3 legging it however, he was a very big boy, it was a front leg, and would he go down, I/he would have been up a creek

 

Also, there are the chest xrays to consider.

 

Winslow has done well (rear leg) as did Max (front leg) and both are big boys, younger when they were diagnosed.

 

If I ever did amputate, it would be with chemo and follow up supplements like Transfer Factor and artemisinin or I would not bother.

 

Last time I checked, the average is still 14 months.

 

It really is a personal decision based on your ability to handle the post op care, chemo, etc. as well as the dog's disposition. Most greyhounds I have met have an incredible desire to live. That alone, if the physical is managable, will pull them thru an amputation.

 

 

[brandimom]

My heart goes out to you for all your losses this year. No experience with any amputations but just wanted you to know you and the family are in our prayers. What an amazing family you are to adopt this senior into your home. What ever your decision is this grey knows how much he was loved in the short period of time he has been with you. Bless you for opening up your heart and home!

[ahicks51]

If I ever did amputate, it would be with chemo and follow up supplements like Transfer Factor and artemisinin or I would not bother.

 

Last time I checked, the average is still 14 months.

 

Note also there's tamoxifen, used in Dr. Stack's own greyhound who lived at least 4 years post-amp.

[Guest bigorangedog]

If I ever did amputate, it would be with chemo and follow up supplements like Transfer Factor and artemisinin or I would not bother.

 

I ordered artemisinin just now. I had a whole bottle from Crisco, who lived only a week and a half after diagnosis. But I stupidly threw it out -- thinking, "I don't want to have to look at this bottle anymore!" and thinking that I would not have to use it before it expired. I was hoping I was going to get a break for a while.

 

I'm not familiar with Transfer Factor..... Will google it.

 

My vet said that if it were her greyhound (and she has 3 right now, and lost a boy to hemangiosarcoma earlier this year), that she would probably amputate and then do "modified, at-home" chemo rather than the full chemo, to have the dog at home and not feeling so sick. But she said "personal decision" etc etc, and that she has second-guessed herself nonstop on the decisions she's made for her own, even though she is a vet.

 

We'll also need to figure out if it would be logistically possible to do it at OSU -- which is 12.5 hrs away from us. We have 6 other personal dogs and 7 adoptables here, plus a recently adopted 5-yr-old (human) child. There is a place here that our vet is recommending, but obviously I would feel most comfortable at OSU...

 

sigh.

[queenwinniesmom]

Oh, Jen....Lydia and I were just thinking about you and Crisco this morning. I can't believe you are faced with this monster again, and my heart is breaking for you. I don't have any real advice, as I think you know that following your heart is the best decision you can make. You are so intuitive and connected to your dogs, even one who has been with you such a short time. Given the physical boundaries---is the tumor in a place that could be removed with amputation, are his lungs clear---I think you need to wait to see what OSU recommends. And then take into consideration so many things---his disposition, how you are set up for helping a tripod recover and adjust, etc.

I don't know if there has been much research on how or if artemisinin can help if there is no amputation, but it would be worth looking into. I don't think it could hurt, in any case, but Dr. Couto is very knowledgeable about it, so you might ask.

 

Bless your heart for taking this sweet little senior into your home and hearts. However long he has with you, I know it will be a very special time---safe and spoiled and loved.

 

Sending you prayers and white light.

 

 

ETA I was posting about the artemisinin while you were posting! I'm glad you ordered some more. See if you can ask someone about pycnogenol too. It's another natural immune system booster.

Edited November 3, 2009 by queenwinniesmom

[Burpdog]

Email Dr. Couto and see if he'll send the chemo drugs. I would do chemo locally and would go all out or not at all.

 

Get good lung xrays before proceeding. That would be my next step. Some of the universities and specialty clinics have state of the art xray equipment.

[BertnLil]

I don't have any advice or experience, just want to send you many many hugs. 2009 has been very unkind to you. :grouphug :grouphug

[Guest PhillyPups]

Oh Jenn

 

So much, so very much. I have no words of wisdom. TigerPower was 11, but he also had fear aggression (with severe bites) tile floors and his lungs were not clear. My other was SugarBear who was diagnosed at 14.5. She would probably have handled it better than Ti.

 

Such a hard decision. So very much on your plate continually