Swollen Muzzle, Swollen Glands On Neck, Trouble Swallowing

[4My2Greys]

Checking in and hoping there is some improvement this morning. Lots of white light and hugs for you and your boy.

 

[Guest Siriusly]

Well, we had a rough night. The vet gave Orion an injectable painkiller (some kind of opiate, don't have the paperwork with me today) and he did not have a good reaction to it. It completely freaked him out. We called the e-vet and they said his symptoms can occur but they see it more in cats than dogs. We were concerned about his breathing but they thought it was more his reaction to the other symptoms since if he would relax enough to close his eyes, his breathing calmed down. We watched him closely and he slowly calmed down. We were up every hour or two to check on him and give him some water. He is swallowing it and this morning was actively standing in front of the water bowl. He can't seem to lap the water well so we are squirting some directly in his mouth until he walks away. He seems a little more active this morning but he still looks like he feels like hell. I did get about a third of a can of liquid food in him and my husband is going to try to give him some every time he gets up. I talked to the vet already today and we are planning on having them run a series of tests on him tomorrow unless he gets worse again today. I'm encouraged by the way he was acting this morning but he's still pretty bad. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of this soon.

 

As for the patches, they are small ones. I asked the vet this morning and they confirmed the dose but told me to call if it seems to be overly affecting him.

[Guest Siriusly]

I had a couple of thoughts when I read your first post, then I've read through the thread and had a few others.

 

First, is it possible the weight loss is due to the prednisone? The enlarged nodes could be from a local infection/situation, not cancer. The swelling of both the lips and nodes could definitely be due to a bug or snake bite. My CoCo got bit on the snout by a snake (copperhead, we presume) and she swelled up like a bulldog. One of her neck nodes looked like a golf ball, the other, a tennis ball!!! It took several days for her nodes to return to normal size.

 

The jaw movement issue made me wonder about "lock jaw". Tetanus apparently can occur in dogs, but is unusual, so your vet may not have thought of that. There is an antitoxin for it, from what I read on-line.

 

What size are the fentanyl patches (what are the #s written on them)? What brand are they? Why did the vet put two on--did he/she not have one larger one? Where are they located (Shouldn't be in groin, between legs, it gets too hot there.) If you have to remove them, don't wash the skin, especially don't use alcohol or soap, as that will drive more drug into the skin. Use gloves if you can, so you don't absorb any of the drug.

 

Please be very cautious about leaving those patches on a dog that may be having breathing difficulties, as fentanyl depresses respiration. In humans, they are contraindicated in individuals w COPD.

 

I hope your baby is feeling better soon,

DD

 

Edited to clarify/expand--If it is lymph nodes rather than salivary glands. Lymph nodes will enlarge locally in response to a local insult (bite, sting, foreign body, etc.), so having the nodes enlarged near the swollen lips, I would assume that it is secondary to whatever is causing the lips to swell. It's the local immune system trying to fight things off. Has the vet found any other nodes to be enlarged?

 

Thank you for the info. We're confident it isn't a snake bite as there is only one poisonous type in Michigan and not located in our area. Could be a non poisonous but I have never seen any snake in the area I live now. We aren't ruling out insect bite or sting yet. I did talk to the vet about tetanus but she said that was unlikely with his other symptoms. The patches are small ones and are on his side, just behind the rib cage. I guess I'd call it his waist. I did confirm the dosage today. Thank you for the tip if we remove them. The vet said yesterday that she thinks the swelling is in his salivary glands, not lymph nodes as none of the others are enlarged. I'm thinking today it may be an infection that the antibiotics aren't touching so I'm looking into that and I did mention that to the vet today.

[Burpdog]

At this point I'd get a second opinion. It's been going on way too long.

 

Sending prayers.

[Guest Siriusly]

Sending lots of healing prayers for your boy and supportive prayers for you.

 

One thought, it may not work but I thought I would mention it, my girl has giant bolsters on her couch so she doesn't have to lay her head down, unless she wants to. She can just lean it back (and look off into space). I got them because my last girl used to lay her head on the hard edged glass topped table and I didn't think that could feel good. Would your boy lean his head back if you propped some pillows for him???

 

We propped him up last night and it seemed to help some. He's drooling like crazy and it seemed to choke him when he laid flat. Propped up it drained out of his mouth. Thankfully, the drool seemed to be less this morning.

[MP_the4pack]

At this point I'd get a second opinion. It's been going on way too long.

 

Sending prayers.

 

 

Ditto this.

 

[Guest Siriusly]

At this point I'd get a second opinion. It's been going on way too long.

 

Sending prayers.

 

 

Thanks. Working on that, too. I'm getting to the point that I'm less sad and more irritated now.

[DaisyDoodle]

At this point I'd get a second opinion. It's been going on way too long.

 

Sending prayers.

I would also recommend a second opinion. Perhaps it's time to contact the Greyhound Wellness Project at Ohio State (Dr. Couto's group).

 

What opiod is being given in addition to the fentanyl? Was it something short-lasting &/or quick-acting? That might make sense as it can take up to 12 hours for the fentanyl to get to the optimal dose for the patch size. I would ask the vet why both are being used.

 

If you have kids, please keep them away from the dog/patches.

 

DD

[Guest wmlcml6]

My Annie had a bad reaction to Morphine, which was given to her when she had her biopsy. After seeing how "out of it" and anxious she was I vowed that I would never allow my dogs to have morphine. She was already in pain, but physically and mentally handling it ok. To see her so anxious was unexpected and unacceptable to me.

 

I wish I had advice for your baby. I agree that this condition has been going on too long, and I wouldn't be satisfied with a wait and see approach. Hopefully OSU or another vet can help you find a treatment plan that works.

[Guest oldNELLIE]

At this point I'd get a second opinion. It's been going on way too long.

 

Sending prayers.

 

 

Thanks. Working on that, too. I'm getting to the point that I'm less sad and more irritated now.

 

I am sorry that you are feeling frustrated. It is so hard when they can't just tell you what hurts. It sounds like you are making a little progress though, so just remember you are doing the best you can for your guy!

[Guest SusanP]

Could OSU help with something like this?

[Guest Siriusly]

Could OSU help with something like this?

 

 

I'm considering it. We're also talking to a couple of vets that my adoption group uses locally. I went home for lunch and he was drinking and we got more liquid food in him. He's also resting more peacefully than he has since Saturday. At this point, I'm going to try to maintain what we are doing for today and take him in for testing tomorrow. Of course, if he gets any worse we're going straight to the vet.

[gracegirl]

Oh no! Nicole, I'm so sorry that Orion is not doing well. I missed this thread over the past few days so I'm sorry I'm just now sending get well soon thoughts. My heart started racing when I read that Orion was sick.

 

I have no advice to offer but did want you to know that I'll be thinking of Orion.

 

Fenway hopes his littermate gets better very soon! We are so sorry you are going through this.

[FountainLady]

How about MSU ??? Can your vet give you a referral to the Small animal clinic there? When my vets can't get the the root of a problem - I have always had no problems insisting that they give me an emergency referral to MSU.

 

I have had wonderful experiences with both the large animal clinic with my horses, and the small critter one for my dogs. They WILL figure out what is going on with your poor pup!

[Guest Siriusly]

Oh no! Nicole, I'm so sorry that Orion is not doing well. I missed this thread over the past few days so I'm sorry I'm just now sending get well soon thoughts. My heart started racing when I read that Orion was sick.

 

I have no advice to offer but did want you to know that I'll be thinking of Orion.

 

Fenway hopes his littermate gets better very soon! We are so sorry you are going through this.

 

Thanks Lauren,

 

I thought of Fenway and was going to email you to let you know, but we don't have a diagnosis yet. Unfortunately cost is a consideration for us at the moment so we've been floundering a little. I'm hoping we'll have some answers by tomorrow. I'll keep you updated!

 

Give Fenway a big hug and kiss from us!

 

Nicole

 

How about MSU ??? Can your vet give you a referral to the Small animal clinic there? When my vets can't get the the root of a problem - I have always had no problems insisting that they give me an emergency referral to MSU.

 

I have had wonderful experiences with both the large animal clinic with my horses, and the small critter one for my dogs. They WILL figure out what is going on with your poor pup!

 

My brain has turned to mush! I can't believe I forgot about MSU! Growing up I wanted to be a vet and went up there multiple times for events and information. I'm hoping to find an answer by tomorrow but if not we're going to massively expand our efforts.

[queenwinniesmom]

I'm so sorry you and your sweet boy are on this horrible roller coaster. Sending prayers that he gets better soon.

[Guest kydie]

So sorry about your friend, I find it hard to beleive, it is a salivary issue, one side yes, both sides, unusal, if the white cell count is not elevated, hard to beleive it is an infection, Please keep us posted Good Luck, from Pa

[carronstar]

Checking in on your boy today. It seems like there is a bit of improvement.

[Guest BasilMom]

I thought of MSU also.I used them for a thyroid workup for my Holly when I first adopted her. She was a seizure girl and even though her T4 was very low they suggested not to treat her. I followed their direction. I would consider them if you can they seemed very knowledgeable about Greyhounds. Good luck.

[45MPHK9]

prayers for orion and your family........

[jamngrey]

no advice but wishe you and your pup well

[Guest Siriusly]

Second opinion here we come! We have an appointment this afternoon with a vet my adoption group trusts. We're going to see what he says before we consider going to MSU or OSU. I can't go because of work so I gave my DH a big long list of things to cover. We are going to try and exhaust all non-surgical options to figure it out unless the vet thinks it is critical to do so.

 

Orion is maintaining. Not any worse and if anything a little better. Swelling is down a little in his glands and he's drinking water, although he is having trouble lapping it up. We're still using the syringe to squirt it directly in his mouth. He's also eating a little liquid food but not enough to really do more than make me feel like he's not starving to death in front of me.

 

I'll update when I hear more. Thanks for all the support!

[Guest TheUnrulyHound]

Alright, a new opinion! Lets hope for a good solution!

 

Keep us posted!

[Guest Energy11]

Yes, good luck with the second opinion, and do keep us posted! Tons of Hugs! Dee and The Five

[carronstar]

Keeping Orion in my thoughts and prayers.