Poll: Love Or Hate Cesar Millan

[Guest kydie]

I love this thread,, never miss it when someone revives it,,, I think people think way to much when it comes to dogs,,they try to treat them like humans,, and then worder what the DOG'S problem is,, I have found let them be who they are,, and teach them right from wrong,,, what you as the 'LEADER' will tolerate and what you won't they will get it, I've had some pretty dumb dogs in my time,, and they will sooner, or later,,, get it

Edited May 5, 2011 by kydie

[Guest AboveTheClouds]

Please let this thread go away already...

 

Sorry but posting comments like this only keeps it alive.

 

The best advise is if you don't like what you read...don't visit it.

 

ATC

 

 

Thank you Mr. MOTO (Master Of The Obvious). =}

 

That's Captain Obvious to you.

 

ATC

[Guest AboveTheClouds]

One ironic thing I have found, and it's obvious even in this thread, is that CM's biggest supporters tend to be what I deem more newbie/novice dog owners. They have 1-2 dogs, maybe they had 1 or 2 more growing up, but they have dealt with easy dogs, and they aren't really "dog people". They are people that happen to own dogs, there's a difference. They find a forum like this one, they get 20 posts to their name and they come in and start defending CM left and right. The real "dog people", the trainers, the people with big packs, the ones with dogs with behavioral issues, the people that work with dogs day in and day out, the ones that have forgotten more dog knowledge than most people will ever have, those people are followers of positive reinforcement, Patricia McConnell, Victoria Stillwell, etc. Not saying one is right and the other is wrong, but I thought I would point it out, as it's a trend I have seen fairly often.

 

Of course you're saying one is right (large post count) and one is wrong (low post count); you're just being passive aggressive about it. By your logic, CM with his experience with hundreds of dogs, or pack of 30-40 dogs should be very knowledgeable. Or do numbers only count with the trainers whose methods you agree with?

 

It's interesting that you mention post counts. I have found that those with large post counts usually don't have anything better to do than to hang out in front of the computer, adding comments on discussion forums while reveling in their large number of comments.

 

ATC

[Guest BrianRke]

He makes some good points and has some good training methods but he comes across as kinda creepy

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Capt. your just jealous of those that have more posts than you do. =}

 

Lindsay does know what she is talking about, she has a lot of experience. Just sayin...

[Guest CampWhippet]

One ironic thing I have found, and it's obvious even in this thread, is that CM's biggest supporters tend to be what I deem more newbie/novice dog owners. They have 1-2 dogs, maybe they had 1 or 2 more growing up, but they have dealt with easy dogs, and they aren't really "dog people". They are people that happen to own dogs, there's a difference. They find a forum like this one, they get 20 posts to their name and they come in and start defending CM left and right. The real "dog people", the trainers, the people with big packs, the ones with dogs with behavioral issues, the people that work with dogs day in and day out, the ones that have forgotten more dog knowledge than most people will ever have, those people are followers of positive reinforcement, Patricia McConnell, Victoria Stillwell, etc. Not saying one is right and the other is wrong, but I thought I would point it out, as it's a trend I have seen fairly often.

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

AGREED! As someone who takes in the dogs others cast out I can tell you I have worked with some very undesirable behavior in a number of breeds, primarily whippets of course. I will further tell you that Ceasar Milan is an idiot.

 

There, now we can close this thread.

 

[Guest Swifthounds]

 

[Time4ANap]

This thread is never going to die, is it?

[Guest EliseA89]

I watch the show here and there but I don't use his methods. I like that he pushes exercise. I think that is so important for a lot of breeds. But I love that he adopted a Greyhound!

[Guest Mom2Shiloh]

Sorry, it terrifies me that he adopted a Greyhound Actually it terrifies me Especially that he adopted a Galgo, who may have been through way more than the average Grey. My reaction was to pray for the dog.

 

All of the people I know and respect in the Pit Bull rescue community hold him, at best, in Great disdain -- that includes trainers with vast amounts of experience (such as Tia Torres, who runs the Villa Lobos rescue, the one in "Pitbulls and Parolees." Cesar actually approached her to ask her to train him once upon the long ago -- not long after he had started with his TV show.)

 

Anyway, 110% agree with Jonathan and it probably is past time for this thread to die a quiet death.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Mom2Shiloh

[Guest mnblewis1]

I don't watch him, but my mom loves him and always watches him. The funny thing is, is that she doesn't like dogs and doesn't have any. She just calls me to tell me what he said that I need to do.

[LadyGrey]

I think his methods are only necessary for really problematic dogs who have an unusual aggression problem. I do NOT think his methods are necessary for Greyhounds at all!

 

The only area that I agree with Milan for ALL dogs is to keep good eye contact.

[JJNg]

I think his methods are only necessary for really problematic dogs who have an unusual aggression problem.

I really don't believe those types of methods are needed even for severe aggression problems. There are other approaches that are more positive and respectful of the dog that can be just as effective. Confrontational methods like he uses usually don't address the underlying problem and just suppress the unwanted behavior, not to mention they tend to provoke bites. The one thing I really respect about Millan is that he always stayed calm on the show and never got angry with the dog, even when he got bitten (which was quite often in the first couple seasons - not sure if that's changed since I couldn't bear to watch any more after that).

[Roo]

I like him and many of his methods, but they're not applicable to every dog. For some dogs, his methods and dominance theory are a saving grace. For others, his methods would make everything worse. I've noticed that in the recent seasons, he's taken a step back from his seriously dominant methods and added in more treats and praise and the like - I wonder if he watched and realized that he looks almost mean in certain episodes?

 

I use the calm assertive energy and a bit of his dominance theory - don't let the dog walk in front of you, don't give in to bad behavior (growling, nipping) because your dog will learn they can get away with stuff, etc. But I find it easier to train in other ways. Then again, I only apply some of CM's methods to dogs at the shelter - never Greyhounds. Haha

[Guest jenniferk]

I'm not a dog person. I'm a cat person who happens to own a greyhound (who also happens to have behavioral problems). Speaking for new dog owners like myself, it's very difficult to tell which advice to follow. I've gotten very different advice from various experts. I just want to do the right thing, but I haven't been sure what the right thing is. I think it would be easy for someone to look toward anyone with a TV show for help, because they know what's best...right? No! John Bradshaw's book Dog Sense (recommended reading from my dog trainer) proved that once and for all. He points to new research dismantling the whole dominance theory (wolves in the wild don't live in packs vying aggressively for dominance; instead they live harmoniously in family groups) and also research that proves that punishment-based techniques can harm the dog and the relationship with the owner. He explains how dogs learn and shows that reward-based methods are the most effective. I agree with him when he says, "I'm delighted that the most recent scientific evidence backs up an approach to managing dogs that I'm comfortable with...If wild wolf packs had turned out to be as fraught with tension as their counterparts in zoos, I'd have to agree that the dominance approach had merit. I'd still be reluctant to adopt punishment rather than reward ...because for me the whole point of having a dog is the companionship it brings, and domination and companionship don't jibe for me." Me too! My boy I've had for a little over three months has bitten twice and growled many times. Everything came to a head when, two weeks ago, he broke his toe running in the dog park and has to wear a splint. At first, he was very wary of us handling his splint, which we have to do daily, and we were wary of him biting us. Our rescue group actually suggested we consider returning him. Luckily, we have a very good positive-reinforcement only trainer we are working with because we love our crazy boy. We DO need to work on leadership and helping him understand that he is safe with us and can trust us. So, I will do things like lead the way through doors or on walks when I know he's tentative because I want him to feel that he's safe with me (and usually in those instances, he will only go if I lead). But no dominance stuff! I'm glad I found a trainer and approach that sits well with me--and that evidence proves is the right approach.

[philospher77]

I think that Cesar could be an awesome trainer if he ever got rid of the entire "all dogs are out to rule the world" dominance theory blinders. His timing is excellent, he can come up with some really good ideas, but there is SO much of dog behavior that he doesn't see or get because the dog is not responding the way he "thinks" it should.

 

This link gives an excellent look at one of his episodes, what he did and said, and what a person skilled in reading dogs would have seen.

http://wildewmn.wordpress.com/2012/09/16/pushed-too-far/

[Guest SealDogMermaid]

I'm coming down on the Pro-Cesar side. He is often working with big, strong breeds like Pits and Rotties, and believe me, nothing he does even registers on their pain or distress meters - he's just getting their focus. He's said on the show several times that greyhounds are different and he wouldn't even use the same leash/collar things on them. What I take from his show is not the pulling and nudging, but rather the calm, decisive communication with the dogs. My greys respond very well to unambiguous messages, and they respond negatively to waffling mixed messages. They look to us for leadership, and for security, which is different from mere comforting and coddling. A confident, comfortable greyhound is a sight to behold, and what I've learned from the show is how to encourage that comfort and security through clear, confident communication, which includes boundaries and limits. And additionally, every dog is different, so you can never just copy anything from the show. You take the principles and lessons and apply them in a way that is appropriate not just for the breed, but for the individual dog. The biggest lesson I've learned from the show is to recognize problems before they happen, and divert the dog's attention and focus so nothing ever escalates or becomes a habit. And don't nurture insecurity! That was a big one for one of my greys.

 

Max

 

Really well stated - i wholeheartedly agree. The main point being clear, calm, confident communication which i think is invaluable to grey owners especially. I also agree that CM changes his methods based on the individual animal not blanket theories, much as the viewer should tailor their new knowledge to their dog's specific needs.

 

As for the pushing and pulling and "leash snapping" i doubt that he would be that heavy handed with a greyhound or more nervous dog as he adjusts his methods to the individual case. It floors me that people think the tug on the leash is inhumane. I could see people misusing and misunderstanding what he is doing and therefore traumatizing the dog, but when done correctly (gently as if it were a nudge or tap on the shoulder along with "leave it" etc) then it is simply a way to redirect attention.

[Guest rennina]

I like his show. (He is sexy too!) But I prefer positive. It also depends on the dog/breed.