I'm Shocked

[2hounds]

for you and Hannah both. It sounds like she has adjusted beautifully and was just waiting for you to catch up to what she already knew!

[Remolacha]

I am glad to hear she has adjusted so well! Dogs and cats don't seem to stress about this sort of thing like we do. Their attitude is more like "well, this is how things are now, I'll deal"

 

Would you mind if I sent that poem to a friend of mine? She has just adopted an almost blind and partialy deaf dog (not a grey). I think she would like it.

 

[inugrey]

Her 'opal' eyes make her even more of a jewel!!!

 

I agree.

 

 

I also appreciate you posting these pictures, this will be very helpful as it seems PRA is showing itself a lot lately.

[Guest KennelMom]

Hanna has one of those needlenose faces that instantly melts your heart.

 

Thank you for posting the pictures. The 2nd picture shows exactly what I saw in Kates' picture.

 

Heather, no kicking allowed I KNOW your a good mom, one of the best! ...just sad this could take place and not even realize Maybe this will lead one or both of us down a new path.

 

Thanks...I am trying not to kick myself. Either way, whether I'd picked up on it months ago or yesterday, it doesn't change what has or will happen. No treatment. I found a company that offers blood tests for PRA for various breeds and they offer free testing for pure bred dogs, provided certain conditions are met (must be diagnosed by a board certified opthamologist). I emailed them to see if they would take Hanna's blood for testing. There is not a blood test for greyhounds to test for PRA at the moment. So even if racing breders *wanted* to screen for this, I don't think they can. At least, that's my understanding at the moment. I imagine offering the free blood test allows the company to create screening test for other pure breeds.

 

 

Would you mind if I sent that poem to a friend of mine? She has just adopted an almost blind and partialy deaf dog (not a grey). I think she would like it.

 

Feel free! The poem is actually posted on the home page of one of the blind dog forums as well.

 

 

I also appreciate you posting these pictures, this will be very helpful as it seems PRA is showing itself a lot lately.

 

No problem. Hopefully someone can benefit from the pics. Even though there's nothing that can be done for dogs with the disease, it is definitely good to at least know your dog is having vision issues.

[Guest wmlcml6]

What you are feeling, Heather, is exactly what we felt when we discovered Mama Carla was deaf ... and that she probably had always been that way. She functioned so well that it wasn't noticed until she came to our house to be a mama. Sadness (that she couldn't hear us tell her how much we loved her), amazement (at how well she functioned), and disbelief (that we didn't notice sooner). Having the knowledge didn't really change anything for her, it just made us more tuned in to what she needed to be safe and happy.

 

Good luck with your sweet girl.

[Guest MnMDogs]

Thank you so much for posting that. I know it's still hard do deal with, but it's so encouraging to know that she adjusted seemlessly to the condition. I especially want to thank you for posting the pics. By comparing Mork's pupils to Hanna's, it seems like he's not as far advanced. Which means a lot to us, since we're about to move into a new home. We were so worried that we would move, and he wouldn't have time to adjust. But it seems like he should be able to.

 

I had to laugh when you commented on flicking your fingers at the eyes of your other hounds! I find myself "testing" Mork in dim light. He tolerates me

 

ETA: She's a beautiful girl, and I'm so glad that she did adjust so well. They truly are amazing animals.

Edited January 31, 2008 by MnMDogs

[Guest KennelMom]

That's good news about Mork's eyes! Hopefully his PRA progresses *very* slowly!

[Hawthorn]

I'm glad that Hanna's doing so well and that you're feeling a bit better about it than you were.

 

I'm curious as to what to look for that would indicate sight loss.

The first thing I noticed when my poodle had PRA was that he was reluctant/hesitant to walk in the dark. At first we just thought he was scared of the dark, though, and didn't realise he was going blind.

 

 

[Guest KipperGrey]

When Kip was diagnosed with PRA it was because he was having a hard time finding his way back to the house after going outside. He started having accidents in the house and would stand at the back door and "stare" back in the house if we let him out. He bacame afraid to go outside especially at night. It was the middle of winter so my best guess was that he couldn't smell his way back with the cold dulling the smells. My first thougths at the time were that he was getting doggy dimentia since he behaviour was different. I took him to our regular vet and he thought glaucoma and sent us to the opthamologist where we got the diagnosis of PRA. She said he was completely blind at night and in lower light situations but could probably see outlines in bright light. He was 8 when diagnosed. He didn't adjust very well to blindness. Unfortunately we lost Kip later that year from liver disease. Your pictures are identical to what his eyes looked like. He had very pretty brown eyes but in the end his pupils were blown open due to the PRA.

 

I am glad your pupper is doing so well. I hope everything works out for her. I remember going through all the emotions as well as searching for as much information as possible. Do you have any contact with her littermates owners? I wonder if any other pups from her litter has come down with this. I tried with Kip but either I didn't have information or old email addresses. Its too bad there isn't some sort of registration for greys for PRA. It would be interesting to see what lines seem to produce this. Kipper was a son of Greys Statesman. I saw in a previous post that Molotov was a suspected carrier. Kips mom only had one other litter and they were from Molotov. I wonder if any of those pups were affected?

 

from me to Hannah

[Guest KennelMom]

I am glad your pupper is doing so well. I hope everything works out for her. I remember going through all the emotions as well as searching for as much information as possible. Do you have any contact with her littermates owners? I wonder if any other pups from her litter has come down with this. I tried with Kip but either I didn't have information or old email addresses. Its too bad there isn't some sort of registration for greys for PRA. It would be interesting to see what lines seem to produce this. Kipper was a son of Greys Statesman. I saw in a previous post that Molotov was a suspected carrier. Kips mom only had one other litter and they were from Molotov. I wonder if any of those pups were affected?

 

from me to Hannah

 

Thanks for sharing Kips story I only have contact with one littermate (on GT!) so I've sent a PM to her in case she hasn't seen my thread.

 

I definitely want to try to do something to collect names and data on dogs diagnosed with PRA. I am really curious as to how many dogs out there really have it. The good news is that it is a recessive trait so both parents have to carry it in order to produce offspring with the disease. (which I'm sure you know from your research ) I'm talking to DH about putting up a special site or page on our greyhoundfreaks site (under construction!) about it. We were thinking it would be awesome if gh-data could track the info, since it is a database for breeding info. Knowing if a dog is producing blind pups might be helpful. Though by the time it shows up in the offspring, many thousands of other pups could already have been born. Hanna's daddy is Molotov, who is obviously a carrier and sired over 7000 offspring. He's the father of 33 Active Sires on greyhound-data - any of those dogs may also be carriers. Those 33 dogs have produced over 12,000 dogs that have been entered on greyhound-data. That's not counting any of the momma dogs out of Molotov.

 

PRA can be prevented with careful breeding! No greyhound has to go blind from this disease! Unfortuantely, there is a disconnect between breeders and pet owners...how many pet owners ever go back to let the racing breeder know about genetic issues that come up? Not many, I'd bet.

Edited January 31, 2008 by KennelMom

[Guest Che_mar_Cody]

Sorry to hear that about your girl

[Laur]

I'm off to stare into the eyes of my Molotov boy Gilbert.

 

Don't beat yourself up Heather for not realizing.......take comfort in knowing that she has adjusted amazingly well. Obviously the consistency and routine you have with your puppers has enabled her to thrive all the while.

Had you known sooner you may have even made things difficult for her by trying to make or change her surroundings as to be easier for a blind dog.

[Guest tammymacb]

Heather, I'm glad your beautiful girl is doing well. They're amazing, aren't they?

[Guest KateWantsaGrey]

wow...

[jenn8]

There are a couple of things you can do to periodically to check for possible vision problems. Stand or sit facing your dog and hold your finger up in front of the face, then quickly bring it closer to their eyes/nose, like you are shaking your finger at them (but one shake will do). Make sure you aren't waving the air too much or your dog could pick up on that. If don't get any blinking reaction, there may possibly be a vision problem that should be checked.

 

Another way is to drop a cotton ball in front of your dog's face to see if his eyes follow it down.

 

What little vision Onyx has left seems to be peripheral vision. I can hold a treat right in front of his face and easily tell that he can't see it because he opens his mouth and misses it most of the time. But if I hold it way out to either side, he seems to zero in on it better. Of course that nose can find anything edible, no matter where it is.

 

Jenn

[baileysmom]

My Smooth-coat Collie got diagnosed at 2 1/2 with PRA. She is now 7 1/2 and most people would never know that she can see very little. The vet says her eyes respond so little that she can't be seeing a lot either. She still races around the yard with the greyhounds, chases toys as long as you throw them right in front of her. The things I do notice with her is that she won't go to the bathroom outside if it is dark. We have a covered deck with a light on it and if she is desperate she may take 2 steps into the yard and do her business but that is it. We have talked about installing a flood light that would light up a larger portion of the yard. She has always been a barking machine, but now she barks a lot more. She just lately starting getting a little snippy with the other dogs if they bump into her. I think it startles her and scares her. Other than these few things she has adjusted very well.

[Guest vahoundlover]

I definitely want to try to do something to collect names and data on dogs diagnosed with PRA. I am really curious as to how many dogs out there really have it. The good news is that it is a recessive trait so both parents have to carry it in order to produce offspring with the disease. (which I'm sure you know from your research ) I'm talking to DH about putting up a special site or page on our greyhoundfreaks site (under construction!) about it. We were thinking it would be awesome if gh-data could track the info, since it is a database for breeding info. Knowing if a dog is producing blind pups might be helpful. Though by the time it shows up in the offspring, many thousands of other pups could already have been born. Hanna's daddy is Molotov, who is obviously a carrier and sired over 7000 offspring. He's the father of 33 Active Sires on greyhound-data - any of those dogs may also be carriers. Those 33 dogs have produced over 12,000 dogs that have been entered on greyhound-data. That's not counting any of the momma dogs out of Molotov.

 

PRA can be prevented with careful breeding! No greyhound has to go blind from this disease! Unfortuantely, there is a disconnect between breeders and pet owners...how many pet owners ever go back to let the racing breeder know about genetic issues that come up? Not many, I'd bet.

 

If I understand all of this correctly that would mean HB's Commander and Mystic Rose were carriers???

 

You mentioned in one of the other threads about young dogs having PRA...makes you wonder how many young 'uns didn't have successful racing careers BECAUSE of their vision. By the time they were adopted, and knowing how easy it is to not realize your dog is going blind, the owner would probably never know it had been going on for that long...SOOOO it WOULD be advantageous for breeders to know which dogs are carriers. The adoption kennel at Tri-State is full of young dogs, makes you wonder how many are just not cut out to be racers and how many are not successful because of their vision.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest CindiLuvsGreys]

Thank you very much for that PM. I will be taking Kelsey (Hanna's litter mate) to the vet just to check her eyes.

 

http://www.greyhound-data.com/d?d=kelsos+i...&birthland=

 

 

Hopefully she will not have this disease but if she does I will at least know about it early. I will let you know what the vet says. By the way Hanna is beautiful. She and Kelsey have the same adorable ears. I am glad she seems to have adapted so well.

[Batmom]

Sending many many hugs for you and your girl.

 

There was a blind pointer in Joseph's last rally obedience class.

[Guest KennelMom]

If I understand all of this correctly that would mean HB's Commander and Mystic Rose were carriers???

 

You mentioned in one of the other threads about young dogs having PRA...makes you wonder how many young 'uns didn't have successful racing careers BECAUSE of their vision. By the time they were adopted, and knowing how easy it is to not realize your dog is going blind, the owner would probably never know it had been going on for that long...SOOOO it WOULD be advantageous for breeders to know which dogs are carriers. The adoption kennel at Tri-State is full of young dogs, makes you wonder how many are just not cut out to be racers and how many are not successful because of their vision.

 

If HB's Commander and Mystic Rose are your girl's parents, then yes, you can assume they were both carriers. With PRA, it is assumed to be autosomally recessive unless known to be otherwise. In other words, in every breed studied this is the case and you can assume that both parents were carriers - either not having the disease themselves or actually having it. If they have it, every offspring of theirs will definitely be carriers (since the parent only has the defective gene to pass on). If they are only carriers, they can pass either the normal gene or the defective gene on to offspring, creating more carriers if bred to a genetically normal dog. The exception is Siberian Huskies where it's sex-linked and carried on the X-chromosome. In that breed, it is typically a disease of the males since males only have one X chromosome (so if it's defective they are affected) while females have two. The specialist I took Hanna to said that dogs who have PRA should not be bred and dogs who are carriers - at the MINIMUM - should never be bred to another carrier, as this can create offspring with the disease. A carrier bred to a normal dog could still produce carriers, but would not produce dogs affected. To eradicate the disease from a breed, no carriers should be bred at all. PRA is usually considered a late onset disease, but it can be seen in young dogs as well.

 

He also said the problem with most breeds are the BYBs who don't do any genetic testing, so the hopes of eliminating it in, say, poodles is not very promising. Its a popular breed with more breeders who don't care, than do. Also, researching the disease in a breed takes $ - usually funded by serious breeders and breed clubs.

 

I would think (hope) if it's becoming more common in greyhounds due to the 'popular sire effect', that we'd be seeing a lot more posts here on GT about it, since this is usually where owners turn for help and information - even those who aren't regular posters. I know I hope I never see another thread about PRA in a grey.

 

FWIW, Hanna never raced and I adopted her at 2. She also wouldn't lure course.

 

Thank you very much for that PM. I will be taking Kelsey (Hanna's litter mate) to the vet just to check her eyes.

 

I'll be praying beautiful Kelsey has perfect eyes

[Guest whatahound]

Heather,

 

I just wanted to add some things about my Daisy. She handled her blindness so well, it was just amazing. We even moved to a new house while she was blind.

Within one day she had memorized the entire house. I had verbal commands that I used with her like stop, easy, up, and step. It was so strange but after her passing every other dog I was around I found myself giving those same commands.

 

Daisy would run into things sometimes but the part that shocked me the most is that she would also correct in the right direction. Dogs don't sit around and say poor me "I'm Blind", they just pick up and move forward.

 

I had several different toys that held treats. She would push them around with her nose, and wait for goodies to fall out. She just loved it. Every morning before work, I'd fill them up.

 

Hope everything is still going well with your girl.

 

[Guest vahoundlover]

Heather I'm sorry I wasn't clear, Katie is my std poodle.

 

HB's Commander and Mystic Rose are Molotov's sire and dam. Several of mine have Commander and Molotov in their lineage (granddaddy's) You can bet I will be keeping a closer eye on all of their vision.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MerlinsMum]

Hugs to beautiful Hanna. What an amazing hound.

Edited February 1, 2008 by merlinsmum

[Guest KennelMom]

Heather I'm sorry I wasn't clear, Katie is my std poodle.

 

HB's Commander and Mystic Rose are Molotov's sire and dam. Several of mine have Commander and Molotov in their lineage (granddaddy's) You can bet I will be keeping a closer eye on all of their vision.

 

Oh...duh

 

It can be assumed, then, if Molotov didn't have PRA that either one or both of Molotov's parent's were carriers. Obviously one of them was - Molotov was a carrier and he had to get the gene from one of his parents. If any of Molotov's littermates had PRA, then one could assume bothparents were carriers. It is possible for two carriers to produce genetically normal dogs, genetic carriers and offspring with the disease. If only one parent is a carrier, then the offspring may either be genetically normal or genetic carriers, but none will express the disease.

 

Without a genetic test, the only way to know for sure if a parent is a carrier is if one of their offspring has the disease.

[VinnieAndRexsMom]

I'm glad Hannah is doing so well. Does she seem to buddy up or follow any particular pup's lead in your pack? She may have her own seeing eye dog!

I am finding the PRA information that you are sharing very interesting.

The pup with PRA that I know has different lines than Hannah's. It would be interesting to see just how many are carriers for PRA.