Melatonin

[greytdogsks]

OK, one of my "kids" is quite frightened by the nasty fireworks in my neighborhood (my insensitive and "above the law" neighbors partake of the extremely LARGE and loud fireworks - they shake my house). We (myself and the dogs) do usually spend the evening, into the night, in the basement with the A/C, fans and the TV on... but these fireworks are so large you can feel the house vibrate.

Anyway, I have some melatonin this year and am just wondering about the dosage for my 70lb boy ... how much at any one time and how much over the course of the day. I don't even know if it will actually help him, since I have it I figure I'll give them a try, I just don't want to risk an OD or any other possible "issues" with it.

Thanks! Hope you all have a great 4th!

Kay

[Burpdog]

I think I gave Pablo (80#) and Tootsie (60#) one 3mg pill. Didn't work for either of them.

 

Do you have some rescue remedy on hand? Works for some.

 

We have herbs, special liquid combo, ace & valium and melatonin here to use

[tammystroops]

when I use Meletonin

I normally give one tablet about an hour before

 

it does have a calming affect.

 

but if you really want to knock em for a loop..try Ace

one tablet and your dogs will be totally out of it.

[Guest ss556]

OK, what is ACE?

[greytdogsks]

Yeah, I did the ace a few years ago with Lee. As I was told, it has to get into them before the adrenilan kicks in. So, I gave it to him in the morning -- 2 tablets (I can't remember the dosage of each pill). He was OUT . It scared the **** out of me. I could shake him, yell at him .... and NOTHING. So, I left him alone. About 2 or so hours later, he started waking up. Then he was like a drunk dog. He had to follow me downstairs - so I had to help him so he wouldn't fall. I didn't like his reaction. I didn't give him any more until around 4pm. However .... by the time the BIG booms went off ... he was JUST as frightened... so I decided I wasn't going to do that to him again. He'd apparently have to be totally out for it to help him. So, yes, I question the effects of the melatonin. Yes, I do have rescue remedy .. and I will possibly give him both ... hopefully the rescue remedy will help the melatonin work .. the rescue remedy doesn't seem to help him, at least not for more than about 5 minutes.

 

The 4th is just sooo much fun for us around here!

 

Thanks!

[Madeara]

benadryl works faster.

[Lilysmom]

I have tried Melatonin for my boy Marx, does nothing for him, neither does Benadryl. The trick is, you have to give it when they are calm.

 

Good Luck!

 

pss the 4th isn't much fun around here either

[LuvEarsies]

Last weekend, as a trial for the 4th, I gave my 80# hound two 25mg benadryls. It had no effect on him at all, I thought he would at least get sleepier than usual, but nope! he seemed his usual self - am I under dosing?

[heartdogs]

We can so relate!! Sat the power went off about 5:30( was off until 3:00 the next morning) & it didn't take lomg for the house to getinto the high 80s with even higher humidity. I have a new neighbor who was setting off those professional type fireworks & the poor dogs were going nuts. After 2 hours I went & asked how much longer they would be setting them off & they said at least 2 more hours & the fact that he was "doing it for the vets" was suppose to make it right. I really don't think in a neighborhood is the right place to set off these big things. Of course we've been having more each night & I know tomorrw will be bad again, I just hope the power stays on so we can be cool & have music on!!

[Charla]

I did a Google search on veterinary Melatonin I'll try to find it again and post it.

 

I have been giving Gracie Rose (70 lbs) 3 - 6 mg , takes about 1/2 an hour to kick in and seems to have helped take the edge of without sedating her. She still pants a little but is not quivering or stressed out. The 4th lasts for about a week around here so I've been using it for a few evenings now.

[Guest BlackandBrindle]

Melatonin won't knock him out. It might take the edge off, but it definitely should not knock him out.

 

 

With Spud's s/a we used 3mg pill an hour before we left while he was still calm. I've read that you can give up to 9mg in a 24 hour period.

 

 

I know when I take it, it just makes me a little sleepy but not at all drugged feeling.

 

 

If the firework anxiety is severe, I don't know if it will do all that much.

 

 

Good luck though!

[Charla]

OK, I think this is very informative and gives dosage info you need

 

http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/ar-n...630/002814.html

 

Here's another from a Veterinary Journal

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/melatonin.htm

 

MELATONIN

 

 

 

 

 

Melatonin has been found to be helpful when used with dogs who have "thunder-phobia," other noise-related reactions and other stressful situations. Melatonin has been used effectively to reduce seizures in dogs that seize between 11:00 PM and 6:00 AM. Quite a few members of our Canine Epilepsy community have also discovered that it seems to lessen the frequency and/or severity of seizures at other times of the day.

 

Melatonin is a naturally occurring substance produced by the pineal gland located in the brains of mammals. It is, by definition, a hormone and has been found to be involved in circadian rhythms - those inner cycles that tell all mammals when to sleep and when to wake. In recent years, synthetic melatonin has been marketed for people as a "natural" aid to sleeping.

 

In the May 2000 issue (Volume 3, Number 5) of The Whole Dog Journal is an article on melatonin and the positive results with noise and thunder-phobic dogs. The article begins on page 3 and is titled "Bring in Da Noise." The article has comments by Dr. Dodman and Dr. Linda Aronson. It does not discuss melatonin and canine epilepsy, but does discuss some of the concerns people might have with use of melatonin and their feelings on it.

 

Another article with references to the use of melatonin in dogs can be found in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, Volume 215, No. 1, July 1999. "Vet Med Today: Animal Behavior Case of the Month" was written by Linda Aronson, DVM, MA; from the Department of Clinical Studies, School of Veterinary Medicine, Tufts University, North Grafton, MA.

 

The following is an excerpt from an email sent by Dr. Aronson to one of our Guardian Angels, Rich Brady: "To treat thunderstorm phobia, I use a dose of 3mg for a 35-100 lb dog. Smaller dogs get 1.5 mg, and larger dogs may get 6mg. The dose is given either at first evidence of thunderstorm - dog becomes agitated, distant rumbling of thunder, etc. or prophylactically before the owner leaves the house when thunderstorms are predicted. Dose may be repeated up to 3 times daily. The latter may be used as a dose for animals with more generalized stress related disorders."

 

Rich has written the following about his use of melatonin with his "pack" of Golden Retrievers: "I have posted a great deal in the past about my successes with melatonin as an adjunct therapy with Jake who had severe cluster seizures every 3 to 4 weeks which we were not able to gain control of until melatonin was added. We have been using melatonin since early 1997. We started with Jake and had good success and give 3mg nightly to our dogs, both the epis and non-epis. We have 6 dogs, currently ranging in weight from 35 lbs to about 90lbs, and 5 of the 6 get 3mg melatonin nightly. Dusty, who we adopted in July 1999, as a special needs Golden Retriever with epilepsy, did get melatonin for a number of months, but it did not seem to be helping him, so I stopped with him. He is a tough case to get control of, but we are slowly making headway. Zay on the other hand who we adopted January 1999, as a special needs Golden with epilepsy is doing great and has not had a seizure since we brought him home over 2 1/2 years ago. Zay was given his first melatonin on the way home in the car 1/99 and has been given 3mg nightly since. We give the melatonin anytime late evening. It seems to take about 30 minutes to start to take effect and help them get to sleep."

 

Rich recently (May 2002) contacted Dr. Aronson to ask if she had done any further studies with melatonin and/or published any other papers. As Rich says, "It does not benefit all dogs, but it has provided positive results for many, and as always, certainly everyone needs to make their own decisions with what they are comfortable with and what works."

 

Dr. Aronson's response to Rich follows:

"No, I continue to gather data and continue to find new uses for melatonin, but without research financing, publishing is low on my list of priorities. More and more owners and vets are using melatonin and it is gratifying to know that so many dogs have been helped. No one has done any research to show whether melatonin is safe in pregnant humans, hence the statement on the label, and I have therefore cautioned against its use in pregnant bitches, except in one case where the bitch was absolutely terrified by fireworks being released at the pub next door. Sadly she only had one (very healthy) puppy and he had to be delivered by C-section. However, the owner contacted me after having already gone through a wretched night with a terrified bitch, she feels the fear caused problems with the pregnancy not the melatonin she gave the bitch the next night.

 

With regard to the other cautions on the melatonin bottle, I have used it, carefully, in dogs with autoimmune disease and also those on MAOIs; none had a problem. To date out of 1000s of dogs taking melatonin (some taking it daily for months and even years) this is the sum of reported side effects: 3 dogs were reported to be hyper. However, two of these belonged to the same owner, who said melatonin had the same effect on her. One dog seemed to become disoriented. He drank copiously and peed in the house (something he'd not done in nine years). The description sounded as if the dog might be mildly Cushingoid, and I recommended this be explored. The owner really just wanted to go ahead and use melatonin but maybe at half the dose, as he was very thunderstorm phobic and on melatonin totally unreactive. All signs of disorientation, and increased drinking and peeing had resolved within 4 hours. One owner reported that her dominant aggressive, dog-aggressive cocker spaniel lay down between obedience exercises, she thought this indicated sleepiness, I think it just meant he was a lot less reactive around the other dogs.

 

I have had search and rescue dogs successfully given melatonin to combat their fears of flying in turbo prop planes. It was the only treatment that allowed most of them to relax and yet let them perform their duties at the end of the flight.

 

Success is still running about 80%. Most useful for noise phobias, including thunderstorms, fireworks, gun shot, planes, helicopters, hot air balloons, show site noises, bird song, truck and other road noises. It also seems to help some cases of lick granuloma and separation anxiety.

 

Please feel free to cross post this information. It seems that melatonin is one of the safest products. Some of the failures I believe result from phobia induced seizure behavior. Others I'm not sure of the reason. Some dogs need to be dosed before the fear is established, others respond even if they are already reacting fearfully to the noise." -- Linda Aronson, DVM

Edited July 3, 2007 by Charla

[nettles]

Our vet said it takes a day or better before it "kicks" in. She recommend a 2 mg tablet every 8 hours starting at least 1 day before a storm or fireworks. Our senior boy was extremely thunderphobic and it seemed to work on him

 

 

Rich

[Guest greytexplorer]

My vet told me to give Mandy 3 benedryl tablets (these are the little white ones) twice a day as needed for swelling when she was bitten by a copperhead. She weighs about 65 lbs.

 

Knowing how benedryl makes ME feel, I decided to give Ester (also 65 lbs) a couple of those benedryls for her thunderphobia. It works better for her than melatonin. I used to give her two melatonins with no effect.

Benedryl really helps her.

good luck and

Happy 4th anyway

[Guest Peanut]

From our experience, 9 mg of melatonin works and your can repeat every 4 to 6 hrs as needed. You really can't OD on it, from what I've been told. If you are concerned, call your vet. I know a seizure greyhound was on a VERY LARGE dosage of melatonin. I think it was over 300 mg. Needless to say, 3 mg isn't much. Melatonin is a natural chemical your brain makes to get you sleepy... eat cherries! Cherries are natural melatonin.

 

 

My Chenell gets 9mg for thunder and fireworks.... we also run a DAP diffuser all the time as she is a spook and traffic noises on the road outside the house will set her off...

 

Hope this helps!

[greytdogsks]

Thank you all ... I appreciate all the information.

Luckily, he's not extremely "bad" with his anxiety. He mainly pants a lot and will go into my room and wad up the throw rugs. So really, it's not a "terrible" problem, the primary problem is, as I've read from other folks, he will NOT go outside and potty at all. I'm just hoping that I can "calm" him enough that if/when I notice a lull, I might be able to hurry Lee outside (on leash) and get him to do "something" before we go to bed -- and also, that maybe I can go to bed before 1am (or so) since I have to go to work on Thursday!

 

Thanks again! I really do appreciate it.

[Guest simile]

I have a new neighbor who was setting off those professional type fireworks & the poor dogs were going nuts. After 2 hours I went & asked how much longer they would be setting them off & they said at least 2 more hours & the fact that he was "doing it for the vets" was suppose to make it right.

 

I'm sure all the Vets with PTSD appreciated all the big bangs and loud pops as much as the hounds did... Thinkin' neighbor, there...