Help: Accidents Inside, Restlessness, Chewing/destructiveness

[Guest CometStar]

Apologies in advance for the long post, but I wanted to make sure I included enough background to give a clear sense of the situation.

 

tl;dr: I’m hoping someone has some thoughts about what might be causing my 2.5-year-old greyhound (adopted 3 months ago) to suddenly be peeing in the apartment and displaying restlessness/hyperactivity.

 

We live in an apartment building and have had our dog for about three months. Over the first 2.5 months we developed a routine that seemed to work, with four or five walks a day (every five hours or so -- I work from home, so we have lots of flexibility there). If he needed to go out at another time, he’d whine and get rambunctious, playing with his toys. I always took that as a sign to take him out, and that seemed to work—no accidents.

 

Then over the past two weeks, something changed. He’s peed in our apartment, without any warning, six times in the past week, not including the times he peed in the building’s laundry room or in the hallway by the elevator—always in the late afternoon or evening. He refuses to go out in the morning, and since he seems fine and he’s not peeing inside before his first walk—he just sleeps and really wants to keep sleeping rather than get up and go out—I let it go and wait until he’s willing to go out, around 11 am to noon, which means he’s holding it for more than 12 hours. So it’s unlikely to be a bladder infection, but I took him to the vet anyway just in case, and the vet said it’s probably that he’s just not fully housebroken.

 

He’s also—more worryingly, to me—started exhibiting restlessness, pacing around the apartment and grabbing and chewing on everything he can reach. To his credit, he is good about moving away from something as soon as I say no, but he’ll go back to it, so I have to watch him constantly. And he's destroyed things when I'm not around: he chewed up a neighbor's Game Boy and pillow, chewed up toilet paper on the roll, tore apart a bag of shredded paper, etc. I mentioned this to the vet, who said he’s just bored, but I can’t help worrying that something else is wrong.

 

Tonight I’ve just been at my wit’s end. Here’s what the day has been like:

 

Went for two walks, 20 minutes each, in the afternoon. In between he rested, played with his treat ball, chewed on a bone, did some training. At around 7:30 (three hours after his last walk), he was pacing and mouthing at things on tabletops and all, so we gave him a bully stick to chew on at around 8 pm. He won’t chew on stuffed animals or fake bones—just real bones and animal-based chews. Around 8:30 (four hours after his last walk) he finished the bully stick and my husband took him for a walk. He didn’t make it to the elevator before peeing in the hallway.

 

Less than an hour after returning from that walk, he began pacing and grabbing at everything again—electronic cords on the desk, my bag sitting under the desk, a birthday card, even the corner of the TV. That started about 40 minutes of me trying to find a way to get him to settle down. Between each attempt, I tried ignoring him for a little while, hoping he’d relax. Eventually restless became hyper. He was like a toddler on sugar.

• I gave him an empty paper towel roll to destroy, which he mouthed once and then abandoned. Back to pacing and grabbing.
• I gave him a Kong with a few spoonfuls of peanut butter in it. As soon as that was gone, it was back to pacing and mouthing at things.
• I did about 10 minutes of training with him: down, sit, stand, wait. As soon as we stopped, it was back to pacing and mouthing, occasionally pouncing on a stuffed toy and tossing it around before going back to pacing.
• I gave him a couple of calming treats that contain valerian, chamomile, and some other natural remedies. Back to pacing and pouncing.
• I decided to take him for a short walk, but as soon as he saw me get his coat out he ran away, then ran back to play tug of war with his coat. (Not normal behavior at all.) I did not engage and let him have it, knowing he’d just abandon it immediately—which he did.
• Then he ran over to the side of the room and peed. I cleaned it up as he ran around the room some more. I decided he could go outside without a coat and grabbed his leash.
• He ran toward me but stopped when he saw I had the leash—he didn’t want to go out. I decided he needed to go out anyway and reached forward to hook his leash to his collar. He growled and then bit my hand—not hard, it didn’t break the skin, he was just making a point. (There was no time between the growl and bite for me to back off or else I would have.) I just stood there and looked at him, he looked at me, then he moved off and I came over to the computer to write this out.
• I think the calming treats kicked in then. He walked over to his bed, lay down, and immediately fell asleep.

 

I know that greyhounds' personalities continue to change for quite a while after adoption, and the vet seemed to think that’s what’s going on here. Maybe it is. But I wonder if anyone knows if restlessness and anxiety (which I assume is behind the restlessness) might have a physical cause? Would low thyroid cause any of this?

 

And if it’s not a medical issue, does anyone have advice on how to deal with this? We’re obviously trying to reinforce housetraining, giving him lots of praise and treats when he pees outside. We also try to keep him stimulated: he does get several walks a day, and I usually take him for longer walks in the afternoon—sometimes up to 1.5 hours—but that’s not always an option, and I haven’t really noticed a difference on those days. (Though, to be clear, he’s not restless like this every day, and tonight was certainly an extreme.) And for his mind, there’s the treat ball, which he loves, and training—we took an obedience class, and I continue to work with him on basic commands.

 

Also, I’m not sure this is relevant, but ever since we got him we’ve had issues with growling and biting: fear aggression when he was newer to our household, resource guarding, sleep aggression (which led to a fairly serious bite for my husband), and growling (and now apparently biting) when he just doesn’t like something. We’re trying to train this out of him and are very aware of his triggers, but I worry that it’s escalating rather than getting better. He’s now bitten me, a neighbor who was trying to take something away from him, and my husband. And I suppose it is relevant because it's why we won't force him to go out in the morning: we're worried that if we try to touch him while he's on his bed, even to hook on his leash, he'll bite us. So we try to lure him out, and apparently the pull of sleep is stronger than the pull of his favorite treat.

 

Despite these frustrations, I really love the guy, and I know he loves me. He gives lots of love and affection, is often very calm and easy-going, friendly and curious, and I think he’s done great with training. I just worry that with the restlessness and accidents, something is going on that training won’t fix.

 

Anyone have any advice? Encouragement also would be appreciated.

[JohnF]

Encouragement would of course be appreciated, but when we are in a tight situation like that we often cannot see the wood for the trees. Despite you already going the extra mile, this dog's personality would not appear, from your narrative, to be suitable for apartment living and he probably needs to be in a two or more dog household where there is firm pack discipline. Really you are doing neither yourselves nor the dog much of a favour and should probably seek to return him to the adoption group. There is no blame here and not every adopted dog gets to make it their forever home.

 

To keep him I think you'll need to go back to crating so that your house and possessions can remain safe. This will probably make him even more upset.

Your walks are going to need to be MUCH longer, like an hour and a half on the move and involve often going to new places. I think a dog like this would also be one that needs to run and do zoomies in a large and safely-enclosed space. I'm not sure that imposing NILIF (nothing in life is free and so must be earned) rules will work with a dog like this.

 

You are also going to need to COMPLETELY eliminate all traces of his urine in your house. I would also change his food to something hypo-allergenic Others on here I'm sure will offer how to do those things properly.

 

Good luck with all that, and welcome to Greytalk.

Edited March 26, 2018 by JohnF

[Batmom]

Assuming the vet did check his urine and examine the sheath for infection?

 

He needs to go out more often. Reread what you wrote. Every time he gets restless, he has to go out. He also needs more exercise -- longer walk, safe area where he can run and play, etc.

 

Rather than telling him "no" when he gets something he shouldn't have, dogproof to the nth degree and, if he starts mouthing something you don't want him to have, redirect to his own toy or chew instead.

[cgs]

But she's saying this just started and 4 or 5 walks a day isn't enough? Yikes. And he doesn't even want to go out sometimes when she tries to take him. I'm only a month into this adventure, so I probably can't help. Just sympathy (and hope that I don't run into the same issues!) I'd probably do crate training if you have a crate. Have him in the crate most of the time. Only out for walks. Walks at specific times. Not sure what to do about aggression when he doesn't want to walk or not making it outside before he pees. I'd probably just try to interrupt his peeing by pulling him away--that's what I do on walks when Percy is marking all the time. Honestly, I think I'd walk him less, to let him know he has to hold his pee until it's time--but with crate training. But it sounds like he might go crazy in the crate, so I don't know. I wonder how much of it is just puppyhood still. When we got Percy, I said I wanted a dog that was at least 3 and over the puppy stage. He's 3.5.

[GeorgeofNE]

"Calming treats" are not a substitute for attention, exercise, training, etc. and unless I know EXACTLY what the ingredients are in anything, I don't give it to my dog. "All natural" does not mean "safe, effective, and harmless." I gave my dog herbal supplements on my vet's advice and 30 days later his liver enzymes were sky high. Stopped the treats, liver values returned to normal!

 

ANYTHING he is ingesting could be making him pee.

 

Any time a dog eats, he usually has to urinate within an hour. He needs a strict routine, not to make his own decisions when it comes time to potty breaks.

 

Pick times that work for you--and take him out FIRST THING when you get up. Take him out after every meal. Take him out after every play session (not forever, just until he's housebroken).

[turbotaina]

How much water is he drinking?

[Guest CometStar]

GeorgeofNE: Obviously the calming treats were not my first line of defense. I hope that was clear from my post. And they were not purchased until this behavior had already started, *because* this behavior had started. (I also don't appreciate the suggestion that I'm not giving him "attention, exercise, training, etc." If you reread my post, I think you'll see that I'm doing my best on all fronts.)

 

Re: going out more often / on a strict schedule / first thing in the morning / etc: We took him out first thing in the morning as long as we could. Now he refuses to get off his bed, and we're worried that if we try to force him he'll bite us. In any case, he's not having an accident before the first time he goes out, so I'm not sure why taking him out earlier would be helpful. He is on a regular schedule, however.

 

I'm not convinced the restlessness is because he needs to go out because it can happen so soon after a walk. As noted in my original post, that night it started less than an hour after his last walk. Sometimes it starts when we literally just got back from a walk. I've heard that dogs sometimes need a cool-down period, so I've tried adding that after a walk -- time with his treat ball, some training -- and it sometimes it seems to help, but not always. Taking him out when he's restless, regardless, is certainly one solution, but it's pretty disruptive; I do have to work, and taking him out every time he's restless on top of his usual walks is difficult.

 

Batmom: No, the vet didn't check for an infection because he said it was so unlikely. We saw him last week, so if the accidents continue, we'll go back. Yes, we've done as much dogproofing as possible. We've moved everything we can out of his reach. The toilet paper is staying on the roll. The TV can't be moved higher. There's nowhere else to put the books that are on the bottom shelf of the bookcase. The file crates have to stay on the floor under the desk. These are all things he's tried to chew on. I have tried to redirect, but unless it's a bone or bully stick, he's not interested. (Those he gets possessive about, so we're trying to restrict their use to when we're practicing "drop it" training.)

 

turbotaina: I can't tell you exactly how much he's drinking, but I haven't noticed an increase. Maybe I just haven't noticed?

 

I certainly understand the suggestions that he needs more exercise, but I'm doing all I can (4 walks a day, at least one that's 40 min, with longer walks a few times a week), and up until the last two weeks it was enough. The thought of rehoming him breaks my heart, so I'm hoping that there's a medical explanation or a solution I haven't thought of, or that maybe this is just a phase he'll grow out of.

[Guest thebuiscuitlady]

It's almost as if you and I adopted the same dog. We adopted two males in early January, and one of ours sounds similar, without the peeing problems. Our boy also steals stuff, has had growling / snapping issues. He also gets really agitated sometimes that's right on the border of playful, but kind of nervous and manic. His grabbing stuff / manic playing I'm sure is both attention seeking and still feeling uneasy in our home. We are BY NO MEANS out of the woods with ours and just last week was considering returning. He seems to be improving now, and while we we still haven't ruled out re-homing if he slides back into aggression, I think a couple of things have helped.

 

1. This sounds totally nuts, buy an adaptil infuser. I am a scientist, so am PRETTY skeptical of anything that borders on homeopathy. Anyway, it was recommended by a friend of mine who is a PhD and a specialist DVM. The behaviorist where she trained (NC State) recommends them. The science is not 100%, and I got it with the thought it probably wouldn't work but I swear to god I think it's calmed down my boy some.

2. If you are correcting the growls, just stop. I finally convinced my husband to walk away from the dog when he growls without correcting him, and that has done a lot to calm down the dog.

3. Improve housebreaking by liberal use of belly bands. You might need to use it for a month or so to just get the behavior out of his head. All the males marked inside in the rescue where we got ours. It was almost habitual for them when they came to us, so you might just need to break the habit.

4. Spray some of his favorite items that he likes to steal with bitter apple. It may only take a few days of picking stuff up for him to realize that they taste disgusting, and will stop.

5. Use his crate liberally, even when you are home. If you can't keep your eye on him, crate him. As soon as you get him out, go outside. It will force him to settle down, and communicate to him, you decide where he goes / when. I believe our boy is anxious, and maybe he got comfort from the controlled environment of the track. I think the crate takes away some of his choices, and that eases his mind.

 

And this hasn't changed, but I think our boys really need this. Once or twice a day, they full out race each other FAST, or run WILD with a toy FAST and are much much calmer afterwards. We have the luxury of a huge, flat, fenced yard, so that's easy for us to let them get that. But the one who has been problematic just "retired" in November, and both had loooong careers. He still has that urge to run, and that sprint helps. They only need like 3 minutes of running to calm down.

 

Also, what are these "calming" treats your giving him. Herbal remedies don't usually help humans or pets, are untested, and can sometimes have bad side effects. I'd stop giving those.

Edited March 26, 2018 by thebuiscuitlady

[Guest CometStar]

thebuisuitlady: Thanks! It's reassuring that you're having similar problems, with a similar timeline. Although it would be even better if you already had a solution.

 

In response:

 

1. I tried an Adapter diffuser before this behavior started for his SA (which is now on the back burner while we deal with the other issues). Unfortunately it gives me a headache. (I'm sure it's the oil, not the pheromone, but nonetheless...)

2. Nope, not correcting the growls. Did the first two times, I think, back in December, when we'd just gotten him, then I researched growling and haven't corrected it since.

3. I'd never heard of a belly band -- thanks for the rec!

4. Bitter apple sounds great for preventing destruction and I'll look for it, but I'm still worried about the restlessness. Sometime he doesn't even gnaw on anything, just paces around sniffing everything. (Which I don't correct; I just keep an eye on him for that moment when sniffing turns into gnawing.)

5. It seems strange to crate him when I'm home. I can keep an eye on him pretty much always -- it's a small apartment. (That doesn't help when there's no warning before an accident, though.) And I've been thinking that it seems like a punishment to crate him when he's already so restless he's pacing. But if it's helped your boy with anxiety, maybe it would help mine.

 

FWIW, when I've taken him to the dog park, he doesn't run; he just clings to the fences and goes up to all the people to be petted. That's unfortunately the only place we have for him to run.

 

These are the calming treats: https://www.chewy.com/zukes-enhance-calming-chicken/dp/132623. They are not related to the development of the issues; I never bought them until well after the issues started. That's not to say they're necessarily helping or don't have other side effects (I haven't noticed anything, and he doesn't get them every day), but they aren't the *source* of the problem here.

[Batmom]

FWIW, one of mine *always* had to go out again between 0 and 60 minutes after returning from a walk. The walk was exciting. Excitement (or nervousness) leads to having to pee, even if pee already occurred on the walk.

 

 

I'd get him to the vet again sooner rather than later.

[Guest thebuiscuitlady]

Honestly, my boy is improving quite a bit, and has A LOT in the past two weeks. I tend to think of the crate like a baby and swaddling. Some babies (mine) would NOT HAVE IT, others it helps to contain them just long enough to relax, feel safe and fall asleep. I'm willing to bet the pacing is that he's anxious.

 

Regarding re-homing, if you have a good adoption group, sending him back wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. The one we worked with stated up front that if we are having trouble with adjustment, they are always willing to re-home, and the dogs typically do very well in the second placement with more information. After two bites, I know I'd be considering it. Guy sounds stressed. You sound stressed. Maybe it's just not a good fit.

Edited March 26, 2018 by thebuiscuitlady

[Guest CometStar]

Batmom: That's a good point, thanks.

 

thebuiscuitlady: I'm so glad things are looking up for you. On rehoming: I suppose I know intellectually that he'd be okay eventually, but we really have bonded. Whenever he gets home after my husband walks him, he comes straight to me for pets; he cries when I leave even if my husband is home; when he stayed with our neighbor (who also has a greyhound), the neighbor told me that he kept going up to women at the dog park who look a little like me; and yesterday, when I walked him with my husband for a few blocks and then split off to run some errands, he kept looking back at me and tried to go with me. I imagine him looking for me when he's in a strange new home, and it just breaks my heart. I know it wouldn't last forever and he'd be fine eventually, but I just hate to put him through that. Plus, we're already his second home -- left his first after 3 weeks through absolutely no fault of his own (owners divorced) -- and with the biting history, I'm worried that they'd have a lot of trouble placing him. I really want to make this work -- though yeah, it's pretty stressful at the moment.

[Guest thebuiscuitlady]

Are you sure this last growl / bite wasn't play when he saw the leash? My naughty boy gets HYPER and that's exactly how he plays. He grabs stuff, he play growls, and mouths at everything including me. I have teeny tiny bruises all over me from him nitting. It's affectionate, playful, and completely obnoxious.

 

I think he had an absentee mother who didn't teach him proper mouthing manners. I'm working on it.....but it's a process.

 

My previous dogs (not greyhounds) did something similar when they were pups. We called it "fraping" for frenetic random activity period, where they would act possessed, and then collapse in sleep. Maybe our boys are reliving their puppy-hoods?

Edited March 26, 2018 by thebuiscuitlady

[turbotaina]

I agree with Jey (Batmom) on the vet visit. Keep an eye on how much he's drinking as well. It could be important It sounds like you are really trying to do all the right things. Have you consulted with a behaviorist who can come to your home and witness his behavior? That is probably a good next step.

[Remolacha]

Not sure about the restlessness as I haven’t had that particular problem with any of mine, but it does sound a bit like anxious behavior to me. The magic trick is figuring out what is making him anxious The peeing sounds very much like a uti (urinary tract infection) I would have the vet check for that, and maybe do a round of antobiotics even if nothing shows, sometimes there is a false negative result.

[Guest CometStar]

Thanks for the replies!

 

thebuiscuitlady: Unfortunately, it definitely was not a play growl/bite. He just did not want to go out. He froze when he saw I had the leash, backed up a step, lowered his head -- so the signs were already there, but I really thought he should go out and so I pushed it -- and when I stepped forward and reached for his collar, he growled and bit me.

 

turbotaina: I'll start noting how often I refill his water dish. I've started researching behaviorists, but they are not cheap.

 

Going back to the vet is the next step. He seems to have taken a turn for the worse yesterday and today; today, aside from times that he's had a bone or bully stick to chew on, he literally has not stopped moving in 3.5 hours (including an hour-long walk, the second of the day).

[Roo]

Going back to the vet is the next step. He seems to have taken a turn for the worse yesterday and today; today, aside from times that he's had a bone or bully stick to chew on, he literally has not stopped moving in 3.5 hours (including an hour-long walk, the second of the day).

 

It sounds like something is definitely bothering him. Hopefully the vet will be receptive to your concerns! Is he acting like he's in pain at all? That could also contribute to his restlessness, if laying down is painful for him. If his neck is sore, he also probably wouldn't want you reaching for his collar. Just ideas to suggest to your vet...

[Guest thebuiscuitlady]

Im voting uti as well. Hope you were able to grab a urine sample. First of the morning is best. If you see any blood, thats your answer.

[turbotaina]

Thanks for the replies!

 

thebuiscuitlady: Unfortunately, it definitely was not a play growl/bite. He just did not want to go out. He froze when he saw I had the leash, backed up a step, lowered his head -- so the signs were already there, but I really thought he should go out and so I pushed it -- and when I stepped forward and reached for his collar, he growled and bit me.

 

turbotaina: I'll start noting how often I refill his water dish. I've started researching behaviorists, but they are not cheap.

 

Going back to the vet is the next step. He seems to have taken a turn for the worse yesterday and today; today, aside from times that he's had a bone or bully stick to chew on, he literally has not stopped moving in 3.5 hours (including an hour-long walk, the second of the day).

 

Yeah, they're not cheap, but they can help tremendously. And yeah, that is weird that he won't settle at all. Hope you can get to the bottom of it!

[GreyhoundGuru87]

As others have mentioned, I would strongly recommend having him tested for a UTI. When we first adopted our Grey, he only had sporadic accidents here and there so we didn't think much of it. Then, it escalated to a crate accident and we brought him in and found he had a very low-grade UTI but it was enough to bother him. Often times when Greys have accidents in their "homes" they can become anxious as well. If he isn't feeling 100% he could just be reacting. They are quite sensitive that way. Good Luck!

[Guest CometStar]

Thanks to everyone for their replies. We went back to the vet and had a much more thorough exam, including blood tests, urine test, and fecal test. Turns out he has a few things that may be making him uncomfortable: hookworms, an abscess (or potential abscess?) of one anal gland, and some pain in his back, which the vet noticed on examination.

 

My guess is that the hookworms in particular have been making him lethargic and uncomfortable at the same time: hence long bouts of sleeping interspersed with hyperactivity/inability to settle. I'm not sure how they or the other problems would cause his indoor accidents, but I'm hoping that those will resolve as he starts feeling better.

 

I do still worry about his reluctance to leave the apartment -- it's really hard to get him outside for a walk at all -- but right now I'm happy to put all the blame on the medical issues and hope that he'll get back to normal as they're resolved.

[LaFlaca]

Hooks can make a dog very uncomfortable causing stomach upset and anal itching.

 

I have only one thing to add; start desensitizing him to grabbing his collar and leashing him. Some dogs find this upsetting. One way is to give him high value treats while you gently handle his collar and clip on the lead. Do this several times a day for a few seconds as a training session only, not followed by a walk.

 

Kudos to you and your husband for being such devoted owners!

 

Had another thought. When you grab his collar to attach the lead, are you looming or reaching over him? He might find this threatening and react out of fear. Maybe start out with a chin or chest rub or a treat at his level, not over him, then gently take hold of the collar from underneath and attach the lead. Worth a try.

Edited March 31, 2018 by LaFlaca

[Remolacha]

Yes, most or all of his issues could be caused by the hookworms. They are nasty little buggers, and persistent, but he should start to feel a bit better once you start treatment.

 

What LaFlaca said about desensitizing him with his collar is good advice. I had a dog that was very excited to go for walks, so putting his collar on was easy, but he was also very aggressive to strange dogs while on leash and hated having me grab his collar. He snapped and growled at me many times. In his case, I switched to a harness for better control and he never had a problem with me grabbing the harness. That solution may be a bit extreme for your situation, but desensitizing him to his collar should help.

[Batmom]

Hopefully things will improve as his medical issues clear up! Fingers crossed!