Panting And Pacing

[Busderpuddle]

Ruby has started panting non stop and pacing up and down the hallway since the 2nd, when the fireworks started. The last 2 nights have been the worst, with zero fireworks. She is eating, peeing and pooping normally, and will eat treats during these periods.

About a week and a half ago, I took her to the vet who put her on Vetprofen for her arthritis. She was also put on Amitryptiline, but I stopped that after 3 days, as it did nothing. Tonight she started acting nuttier than the other days, and it has lasted over 5 hours. I finally put her out to go potty tonight late, and then she wouldn't come back in. I turned the outside lights off and got ready for bed, then came back again to get her, and she ran in like normal.

Could this be the Vetprofen ? I know that I have issues with pain meds, so am wondering if they are hurting her more than helping ? If so, any other ideas for pain meds to try ? She is definitely not enjoying life at the moment, poor girl.

[JohnF]

How worrying. I'm not sure what the half-life of Amytriptiline (it says up to a week to clear the body) is so it may not have gone from the body yet, particularly if liver and kidney function are less than optimal. So I think this is the culpritand you must wait it out. viz:

 

Side Effects of Amitriptyline:

The main side effects seen with amitriptyline are sedation (extreme drowsiness), followed by dry mouth. Amitriptyline can cause a dog to salivate less, which will cause him to lick his lips a lot, feel thirstier, pant, have dry eyes and increase his water intake.

A dog may have an upset stomach or a loss of appetite while taking this medication. Amitriptyline can also cause a dog's blood pressure to lower, increase his heart rate, or alter his blood-sugar levels. Urine retention, constipation, headaches, slight behavior changes, nausea and weight gain have also been reported in dogs using amitriptyline.

In rare cases, a dog will faint after exercising or standing up, and can experience muscle weakness or stiffness while being treated with amitriptyline. Other serious side effects include seizures and heart problems. Dogs with a liver condition may not tolerate amitriptyline well as this medicine is filtered and removed through this organ.

Periodic blood tests will need to be done to check the condition of a dog’s liver. Other things a veterinarian will test for is indications of bone marrow suppression and a low platelet count. Amitriptyline can also cause endocrine disorders like hypothyroidism so a veterinarian may do a blood test to check a dog’s T3, T4 and TSH levels.

Side effects of amitriptyline can last for up to 7 days after treatment has stopped.

 

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Vetprofen has been licensed since 2007. Here's some of what the FDA says:

“most common side effects… stomach (such as bleeding ulcers), and liver or kidney problems

Look for the following side effects that can indicate your dog may be having a problem with Vetprofen or may have another medical problem.

Decrease or increase in appetite, Vomiting, Change in bowel movements (such as diarrhea, or black, tarry or bloody stools, Change in behavior (such as decreased or increased activity level, Incoordination, seizure or aggression. Yelowing of gums, skin, or wh ites of the eyes (jaundice). Change in drinking habits (frequency, amount consumed). Change in urination habits (frequency, color, or smell. Change in skin (redness, scabs, or scratching/)

It is important to stop therapy and contact your veterinarian immediately if you think your dog has a medical problem or side effect from Vetprofen therapy. If you have additional questions about possible side effects, talk to your veterinarian.

Vetprofen should not be given with other NSAIDs (for example, aspirin, deracoxib, etodolac, firocoxib, meloxicam, tepoxalin) or steroids (for example, cortisorrg, dexamethasone, prednisone, triamcinolone)”

[Busderpuddle]

Thank you JohnF for the information. Hopefully it is the Amitryptiline that has not cleared yet, but holding the Vetprofen today too. She is still panting and acting terrified of everything, but it gets worse at night.

[JohnF]

Check her heart rate too please, just in case I had a dog that wasn't clearing Tramadol quickly enough (due to chronic organ failures) and it led to severe arrhythmia with rapid atrial and random heavy ventricular beats... her heart was going-flat out like a motor even at rest and I only noticed it when I patted her. You'd have to take your dog to the vet right away for meds if this is happening. (The info was reported in the the human medical data but not the animal so I can't blame the vet for not suspecting the problem might arise when dosing the Tramadol).

[greysmom]

It *could* be the amitriptyline, but if you only gave it to her for three days, I don't think so. Elavil (the brand name) is a tri-cyclic antidepressant in human usage. It is an off-laebl presciption for canines. It can take anywhere from a week to 4 weeks before *any* change is seen in behavior. It needs that long to build up to a clinical dosage in the bloodstream. Three days isn't long enough for you to see any reaction at all, positive or negative, behaviorally.

 

Vetprofen is an nsaid (non steroidal anti inflammatory) and it would be my bet for whatever is ailing her. Since she is eating for you still, make sure you're giving Ruby this drug ONLY after a meal. Ideally she should be getting a pepcid 20 minutes before eating, then eating a full meal, then getting the nsaid.

 

We use meloxicam as an nsaid here, with better results. If we need an actual pain med (as opposed to just an anti inflammatory), we use codeine sulfate 30mg. Two of mine have bad tramadol reactions, but they tolerate the codeine just fine. Our adoption group has also moved away from tramadol to codeine to limit the chance of a bad reaction.

[Busderpuddle]

It *could* be the amitriptyline, but if you only gave it to her for three days, I don't think so. Elavil (the brand name) is a tri-cyclic antidepressant in human usage. It is an off-laebl presciption for canines. It can take anywhere from a week to 4 weeks before *any* change is seen in behavior. It needs that long to build up to a clinical dosage in the bloodstream. Three days isn't long enough for you to see any reaction at all, positive or negative, behaviorally.

 

Vetprofen is an nsaid (non steroidal anti inflammatory) and it would be my bet for whatever is ailing her. Since she is eating for you still, make sure you're giving Ruby this drug ONLY after a meal. Ideally she should be getting a pepcid 20 minutes before eating, then eating a full meal, then getting the nsaid.

 

We use meloxicam as an nsaid here, with better results. If we need an actual pain med (as opposed to just an anti inflammatory), we use codeine sulfate 30mg. Two of mine have bad tramadol reactions, but they tolerate the codeine just fine. Our adoption group has also moved away from tramadol to codeine to limit the chance of a bad reaction.

The Elavil was to see if it would help her fear of fireworks, which it didn't. I have taken her heart rate, and it is fast, but regular. I don't know what her normal heart rate should be ???

I did not give her any Vetprofen today, but didn't know about giving her Pepcid too. She seems a bit less frantic tonight, but it is still happening. Last night went on for hours and hours, but she would continue to eat small treats, which she won't do when other things have been going on. She seems to get much worse at the sun goes down. We have been told by the vet that he thinks she has dementia starting up, and it sure seems like something like that. Sad to watch.

[JohnF]

Heart rate 60-90 when not stressed.

[Busderpuddle]

Heart rate 60-90 when not stressed.

Thank you. So far tonight, no panting. Hoping it doesn't start up. I am assuming it is all caused by the meds, which we stopped.

[GeorgeofNE]

I looked up "vetrophen" and it's not a "pain pill," it's an NSAID. They really are very different, and it's unlikely to cause the side effects you might get from "pain pills" like Tramadol--but anything is possible.

 

Three days of amitriptiline isn't enough to have any much, if any, effect at all. I think I mentioned before it was a bizarre choice for fireworks phobia because it can take weeks or even a month to start working.

[Busderpuddle]

As soon as the sun starts to go down, the panting and pacing start. Last night she started in around 8:30. I think she has sundowners disease........or PTSD from the fireworks.

[JohnF]

It may indeed be idiopathic, but it still distresses the dog.

 

It's also the time of day at this time of year when daytime prey are changing places with night-time prey. In other words prime hunting time while both sets are at a disadvantage. Peggy will pant for ages after one of those hedgehog episodes I mention on here.

 

 

Also, houses heat up horribly during the day and radiate heat from their walls. It might be 10.30 or 11 before it gets nice again. What if you turn a fan on in the room?

[Busderpuddle]

It may indeed be idiopathic, but it still distresses the dog.

 

It's also the time of day at this time of year when daytime prey are changing places with night-time prey. In other words prime hunting time while both sets are at a disadvantage. Peggy will pant for ages after one of those hedgehog episodes I mention on here.

 

 

Also, houses heat up horribly during the day and radiate heat from their walls. It might be 10.30 or 11 before it gets nice again. What if you turn a fan on in the room?

It is not letting up !!!! 8 PM every single night she starts in. I called the vett this morning and he said he has nothing else to offer her. I am going to try some herbal things I have heard about.

We live in the city with no wildlife anywhere around us, so I don't think that is bothering her, plus she is indoors. We have air conditioning, so she is not getting too warm. It is almost like she sees something at 8 PM, then just starts shaking and off she goes. I did some online searching last night and it does sound like dementia possibly. I just don't know what to do for her, I feel so helpless when she is doing this. I have tried laying down with her, talking to her, taking her for a walk (she hates this in the evening), putting a fan right by her, turning the TV up louder, etc..... nothing can get her out of this shaking during this time. It is so sad to watch, and is wearing me and her down.

[Remolacha]

I know how you feel, one of my cats has dementia, and you feel so helpless. I don't recall, have you tried any of the calming drugs for dementia? They don't always work, but if you haven't tried that, it may be worth a shot. Also, I have heard of CBD oil being helpful in calming stress and confusion.

[Rustyroo]

My Franny has been doing this too, but she starts at 7:00pm. I'm convinced she has the onset of doggy dementia. It's like we have a newborn in the house that has her days and nights mixed up.

[JohnF]

Oh dear. It's difficult to imagine what this is now other than some kind of dementia working on an irrational fear as night comes on. That's one of the reasons why I mentioned the prey-anticipation idea as that's something which is hard-wired to their body clock, not to do with there being actual wildlife that they smell, hear or see, just the 'evening fever' which is part of being a hunter. Is Ruby's eyesight good in lower light conditions??

 

Have you ever stayed away with Ruby to rule out environmental factors?

 

I know only too well from looking after relatives who have had dementia how vitally important it is to maintain a set routine. Occasionally they would get stuck on some peculiar notion and I'd just go along with it for a while before redirecting them to the next thing in the routine.