Couple Questions About New Grey

[Guest Lygracilux]

Why are his legs wobbling? Because he's scared or because there's a medical issue? Either way, that's not normal and forcing him isn't likely to solve the problem.

 

Are the floors something other than carpet in this entryway (tile, vinyl, hardwood, etc.)? Between this and the aversion to the kitchen, which I'm assuming is also smooth flooring I think that may be your problem. In which case, putting down some non slip rugs or carpet squares would solve your problem.

 

Regarding the crate, if he doesn't like being in the kitchen in teh first place, I certainly wouldn't try crate training him there. Why not move the crate to the living room, near where his current bed is. And load it up with comfy bedding as well so it's as appealing or even more appealing than the bed. Then you can start crate training him. You might start by just "hiding" really stinky treats in it when he's not looking. You could also feed him his meals in there. Literally ask him to go in, give him his food, shut the door, and then open the door to let him out as soon as he finishes.

 

 

They just shake when going up and not knowing where to put them, he walks down fine and can climb our steep grass incline in the backyard fine. Hes just unsure and nervous.

No I think he wants to be in the kitchen, he always wants to be with us, and hes fine in there if we bring him up the back way where the crate isnt near. But as soon as he sees the crate he wont come in really, just crys.

The back stairs from the yard to our kitchen entrance are also narrow and hardwood, so we arent even going to try those until we can staple some carpet into it. My fiance has been carrying him up them once a day just so he sees the layout.

Also yes, everything else is hardwood. We will be putting down lots of carpet asap.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Lygracilux

[Guest Lygracilux]

UPDATE: He went up the front stairs this morning without even thinking about it.

Still hasn't had one accident in the house, sleeps soundly out of his crate all night. The kitties have been venturing in and out of the living room, jumping around on furniture, etc. He hardly bat an eyelash. Just the occasion sniff (muzzle is still on)

Hes seriously perfect, and its so cute watching tiny bits of his personality come out as he gets more comfortable with us and home life.

Just look at that face, how could you not love it.

[Remolacha]

Sounds like you lucked out, and got a perfect one for your first grey Crate training can be useful, and I am sure there are those here who will disagree with me, but if he hates it that much, I would take it down. I have never crated my greys and haven't really missed it, but I do have a spare bedroom that is the "cat room" with a permanent baby gate installed a few inches above the floor, so the cats could get away if they needed to. Good news on the stairs!

[Guest Lygracilux]

Sounds like you lucked out, and got a perfect one for your first grey Crate training can be useful, and I am sure there are those here who will disagree with me, but if he hates it that much, I would take it down. I have never crated my greys and haven't really missed it, but I do have a spare bedroom that is the "cat room" with a permanent baby gate installed a few inches above the floor, so the cats could get away if they needed to. Good news on the stairs!

 

Yes I think we did. He's an angel. Yeah idk how we're going to crate train, he won't even look at it let alone go in it. I think we're just going to take it down. That's a good idea about the baby gate, once we're comfortable with him having free roam of the whole house, we will block off an area for the cats. Most likely where their litterboxes are.

And yes! I can home for lunch and he hesitated but I showed him a treat and he walked right up!

[NeylasMom]

Great update!

 

Re: the crate, you can train him if you want to, it's just a question of whether you want to. It's totally fine if you don't feel you'll need it in the future, in which case I would like take it down. But just make sure you won't need it in the future. Some other things I use a crate for aside from what I already mentioned:

 

-Dog sports: I am doing nosework and agility with various dogs and the dogs need to be able to spend time crated (and in a very stimulating environment in the presence of other dogs) for some of that time, sometimes a lot of it. If you don't think you'll ever do more than a basic obedience class or two, this obv doesn't apply to you.

-Travel: Many hotels, cabin/home rentals, etc. require that you crate your dog if you plan to leave them unsupervised in the room or rental. Obviously you could choose to ignore the rule, but you run the risk of your dog causing damage or in the case of a hotel, staff letting themselves in and your dog getting loose.

 

-Separating dogs: If you think you might add another dog in the future, having them crate trained can be incredibly useful for keeping them separate for things like meals, special high value food items like bully sticks, etc. to avoid resource guarding. Of course, you can also use x-pens or baby gates for some of this, which many dogs tolerate better.

 

Honestly, plenty of dogs/owners get by without having a crate trained dog so not trying to sway you one way or the other. Just sharing why I find them invaluable.

[Guest SaltiDawg]

Lygracilux,

 

I have never owned a Greyhound - we've applied.

 

But I have exhibited my (English) Bulldogs in large Conformation dog Shows in the past - and I am an avid supporter of crating a dog when required, and when I don't foresee any specific need I always had crates available for when the dogs want to get away from it all.

 

If you convince yourself that the dog does not want to go into the crate and there is nothing that you can do about it, well i suspect he'll not ever use the crate. However, this is a dog that had lived its life in a crate/cage and I have to wonder.

 

Putting a dog into the crate prior to having trained him to go in on command brings to mind the technique that a 17 year old auto driver who has had his driving permit approaches driving on the freeway. He or she watches the road maybe thirty feet in front of the car and makes very tiny corrections left and right to stay in lane. The experienced driver looks way down the road and keeps his car headed toward some moving point far down the road.... not consciously aware of making continuous minor left/right steers to keep in lane.

 

When I entered a Dog Show venue with my dog on lead by my side and came face to face with sometimes three or four thousand dogs of all shapes, sizes, and demeanor I did not try to steer between the Chihuahua and the Great Dane while avoiding the Greyhound and the Lab. No, I'd see Ring 10 and set off walking in that direction, obviously not walking into anyone but my objective was go to Ring 10. I looked an my objective!

 

In your situation, I would say that with your dog on lead, enter the kitchen with the intention of walking to the door of the crate and seeing your dog going straight in - pretend in your mind that there are rattlesnakes on either side of your path but if you simply follow your plan and walk erect and in control straight ahead that you and your dog will be safe and also seehim walk straight into the crate

 

Now do it!

 

I do not yet have the experience to know how firmly you can "march" with a Greyhound, but I did have that knowledge with my prior breed. I hope that you don't think I was making a joke with my comments here - I'm simply suggesting that you need to have the mindset that you are boss and the two of you go where you say - the dog doesn't have a vote when you have him on lead.

 

It is on you to keep him safe when he is being directed on lead.

 

I have never used continuous strain on a choke collar to direct a dog on lead. And I am not suggesting that here. If you are not comfortable with doing this in your kitchen yet, take him outside on lead and start on a sidewalk and select a goal - say down to the corner. In your mind, see him walking loosely on your side with the lead slack proceeding down the walk to the corner... don't try to "steer" him ten feet at a time. Then set off and go!

 

I must again say I have ZERO Greyhound specific experience and I am not suggesting pulling excessively on the lead so as to possibly hurt or otherwise injure the dog.

 

I have loved my dogs past, cried when they left for the Rainbow Bridge, but never were they in charge when they were on lead. I could not even see such an image in my mind. I loved them to much and felt total responsibility for their safety.

 

I think you're getting great advice here and I'm learning a lot... but somethings, I believe, are common to all dogs.

Edited September 18, 2014 by SaltiDawg

[greysmom]

Yes, intention has a lot to do with how successful you are when training you dog to do just about anything - whether that's walking quietly on a leash or agility training. And it works outside or inside, and could certainly not hurt. Confidence does indeed transfer down the leash, good or bad.

 

I do need to address the issue of the difference between a metal wire crate set up in a house and the kennel crates that most retired racers spend significant portions of their lives in before being adopted. They aren't the same thing, in any way except vocabulary, and the dog knows the difference. Racing kennels are more like large banks of doggy hotels - large enough for a dog and person to be in comfortably together (usually though there is some variance in size); they are constructed and not unfolded and pinned together, and are very substantial metal, or metal and wood; dogs usually have other dogs on both sides and either above or below them, and they are never alone; no person or other dog ever bothers them when they are in their crate without them knowing about it way in advance.

 

Disclaimer: I've only been in a track/racing kennel briefly, but we do usesets of them for our adoptable dogs, and I've cleaned and moved them around quite a bit. Others may have a different experience with them.

 

So it's not a matter of an adopted dog simply transferring their familiarity to a crate-like environment from the kennel to their new home. The entire environment is different, and can be uncomfortable for a new dog. Yes, some greys love their crates, love to be in them, and don't have a problem being crated. And some who aren't crazy about them can be re-conditioned/trained to accept being crated daily or on an as-needed basis. But some greyhounds simply refuse to use them, and will fight to get out of them, often injuring themselves in the process.

 

As Jen said above, there are valid reasons to crate train. For every valid reason, there's a greyhound that will refuse to be crated. Getting back to the OP and her dog, it seems that Fusion is uncomfortable with the crate, wherever it's located. It also seems that he doesn't need it, either to keep the cats safe (though it's a bit early for that), or for when they leave the house. I would probably take it down. If they decide that they need to crate in the future, they can set one up again and start from the beginning with crate training. The break without the crate in sight might be a good thing as, in the future, the dog will be calmer and more trusting of his "new" humans, and take to the crate with a better attitude.

[Guest SaltiDawg]

This adult (beautiful) dog has been with a novice owner for "a few days" and is not going to be crated because the dog doesn't want to?

 

I'm sorry, but no way!

 

I'll stop following the thread so as to not offend as a new guy that has never owned a Greyhound and is trying to horn in.

 

For the OP, I hope you will become the leader for your new dog and enable your dog to view you as the center of the Universe.

[NeylasMom]

Seems like the dog isn't going to be crated because the owner doesn't feel it's worth doing the crate training when the dog is doing just fine without it and there doesn't seem to be a need for it. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

SaltiDog, I don't want to totally derail this thread so I'm going to just say this - dog training has come a long way in recent decades, dominance theory has been disproven and the scientific research supports force free, reward-based training as the most effective and kind way to train without the potential negative effects of punishment or forcing a dog. I hope you'll think about getting yourself up to speed on current science-based training methods, and/or reconsider your choice to get a greyhound. Greyhounds are soft dogs who don't need a strong hand (not that any dog does) and they can often be a bit shut down and need time and a lot of encouragement to come out of their shells when first brought home from the track. You'll totally miss the joy that is watching that process happen if you approach everything like you have this issue.

 

https://positively.com/dog-training/positive-training/the-science-behind-positive-training/

[Guest Lygracilux]

I enjoy reading everyone's reason's on what to do, what not to do and why. I love the opinions, and the greyt information, and that is why I post here. Not because I dont know what I am doing, but because I want to make sure my greyhound is happy and comfortable. This is not by all means my first dog encounter as I have grown up with beagles, huskies and an iggy. However, this is my first grey, and hes so different than any dog Ive owned. (in a good way of course) This is why I need guidance

 

I agree with saltidawg, s/he makes a point-but I side more so with greysmom as there are all different training methods when it comes to dogs. I believe that my Fusion responds so well to positive, kind reinforcement as he is just so sensitive. Its what got him up the stairs (which hes a pro at over night), what has gotten him to lay away from the table when we eat, and what has kept him on track with potty breaks.

 

 

 

In your situation, I would say that with your dog on lead, enter the kitchen with the intention of walking to the door of the crate and seeing your dog going straight in - pretend in your mind that there are rattlesnakes on either side of your path but if you simply follow your plan and walk erect and in control straight ahead that you and your dog will be safe and also seehim walk straight into the crate

 

 

 

When it comes to this, I tried to do this in an encouraging and positive manner. As soon as he saw I was headed toward the crate he did deer in the headlights. There were treats in the crate (stinky ones) and pieces of chicken in my hand. He would not budge. As soon as I grabbed his collar to coax him forward he almost did a 180 back-flip. I caught him, he cried and I calmed him down and he went and laid in his "spot"...

I understand crating is useful, and I would love to train it down the road just in case its needed. But he is still very new, and adjusting to so much and as greysmom said: "So it's not a matter of an adopted dog simply transferring their familiarity to a crate-like environment from the kennel to their new home. The entire environment is different, and can be uncomfortable for a new dog"

 

Im not trying to not crate train him because I dont want to, Im just not pushing the crating because hes not comfortable with it, and he doesn't fully trust me yet. I don't want to upset him, create anxiousness any more that he already is by experiencing so may new things within only 5 days, and I dont want to undo the trust I've already earned. Or worse, have him hurt himself. Plus his poop is finally hardening up, dont want to provoke more of the "Bid D"

 

Now, last night he did amazing once again. Not a peep until 6:45 this morning to go out. The baby gate will be up for a very long time, and he will be muzzled for a very long time until we are 100 % sure he and the cats are safe. Which I think we got lucky with...Dracula-my big 15lb fluff ball wants to be friends with Fusion so bad and actually purred and rubbed up on his face. Fusion stood there, gave a butt sniff, and walked away back to his spot.

Again, he was muzzled with hawk eyes on him-but this is progress to me.

 

I just feel like hes doing amazing, if not more than in such a short amount of time.

Why fix something thats not broken?

Edited September 19, 2014 by Lygracilux

[Remolacha]

"If they decide that they need to crate in the future, they can set one up again and start from the beginning with crate training. The break without the crate in sight might be a good thing as, in the future, the dog will be calmer and more trusting of his "new" humans, and take to the crate with a better attitude." greysmom makes an excellent point here. Just because you take the crate down now doesn't mean you can't crate train later if you decide you want to, and it might indeed be easier.

[Guest Lygracilux]

"If they decide that they need to crate in the future, they can set one up again and start from the beginning with crate training. The break without the crate in sight might be a good thing as, in the future, the dog will be calmer and more trusting of his "new" humans, and take to the crate with a better attitude." greysmom makes an excellent point here. Just because you take the crate down now doesn't mean you can't crate train later if you decide you want to, and it might indeed be easier.

 

Exactly. I agree with you and greysmom

[Guest SaltiDawg]

...

 

SaltiDog, I don't want to totally derail this thread so I'm going to just say this - dog training has come a long way in recent decades, dominance theory has been disproven and the scientific research supports force free, reward-based training as the most effective and kind way to train without the potential negative effects of punishment or forcing a dog. I hope you'll think about getting yourself up to speed on current science-based training methods, and/or reconsider your choice to get a greyhound.

Hi Again,

 

This was posted after I left this thread by a person who's profile says is a middle aged male with Username NeylasMom. At first I took offense at the tone and the superiority shown... upon reflection, I realized that I may simply be too thin-skinned. I know nothing about his qualifications, however I see north of 7500 posts over many years so the person has a lot to say.

 

I have only been a member here for a few weeks. I have had many, many questions in the specific answered for me and I continue to learn. On just a couple of occasions I have seen an aspect of a problem that I felt my dog experience might lend a helping hand to solve. In each case I have started off by clearly noting that I do not own a Greyhound yet!

 

I did that here! Also, I made no reference to any other person's suggestions or comments and certainly made no comment about any other posters qualifications nor ability to care for a Greyhound. And I certainly did not having someone comment on my competence or ability to deal with a Greyhound based on no knowledge of my skill and experience subsets.

 

I wanted to tell you something about my background and then why I posted a suggestion here in your thread.

 

I am 72 years old - a geezer, if you will. I have as an adult owned dogs for 49 years, and as a child and teenager lived with them all my life.

 

I have owned and raised dogs for 46 of the last 49 years. I have raised Collies and a Samoyed to old age. I have raised (English) Bulldogs for over thirty years - having euthanized my last girl three years ago and vowing never to have another dog! TONTO was thirteen when she went to the Rainbow Bridge - you'll be hard pressed to find another Bulldog that lived that long.

 

I gave all of my 'equipment' to various animal rescue groups - incubator, crates, diapers, blankets, SS bowls, leads, collars, etc, etc.

 

Over my 16 year career as an exhibitor and breeder - three litters of 9, 9, and 6 pups - to include three AKC Champions I probably read every book on dogs that I could find by Monks, TV Personalities, 'experts, etc. ( I contributed to the publication of two books on training and handling dogs - one with attribution and the other without.)

 

I understand 100% that absolutely nothing in my background provides me with any knowledge in the specific about Greyhounds. However, I would submit that as long as I identify my lack of Greyhound experience up front, I should be able to post a suggestion in this forum without having my qualifications to request approval to adopt one of these beautiful dogs questioned by someone whose qualifications and agenda are unknown to me.

 

As I've read here, Greyhounds live a strictly dare I say severely structured life while at the track. They are strictly regulated as to when to eat, where to eat, when to poo, where to poo, when to exercise, where to exercise, when to have nails clipped, when to race.

 

It was my suggestion that you and your adult dog with that background might be best served during the first days by taking advantage of the dog's mindset and allowing him to find comfort in continuing that structured lifestyle - while you gradually transition him to whatever methodology that you will ultimately adopt - if different.

 

With an adult dog with such a rigid lifestyle I would not expect to expect much in the way of success on day one with Clicker Training, for example, but over a period of time that might be a choice for you and your dog.

 

Again, I feel it would be a mistake crate training of an adult dog that has lived its entire life in a (sort of) crate because "he doesn't like it" in its current location.

 

I have taught Handling Classes in two breeds and I had a successful career in the ring with my dogs, and I would refer back to my example about negotiating your way across an arenas with three thousand dogs, in crates, on lead, on grooming tables, little ones, semi-aggressive ones (ugh!), etc. You've got to envision the objective and go for it.

 

I am quite comfortable, current exhibitors of my two breeds would give me a pup if I would simply agree to raise it, train it, and show it to its Championship - ie "finish" the dog. That is not what I feel is right at my age and situation - I am committed to making the life of one older bitch (6+) a thing of beauty and love, and I won't have someone suggesting I am out of touch with training methods in his/her eyes interfere.

 

Lest I be dismissed as too old an out of touch, I have five degrees including three from MIT all earned before NeylasMom was born - BUT I still read numerous Technical Journals, and lead a healthy active life, and my wife of 49 years wipes the drool off of my chin. (Usually.) I'll also resume reading dog training/raising books so as to be worthy of owning a Greyhound.

 

I do wish the OP luck and I do regret having posted my original post.

Edited September 20, 2014 by SaltiDawg

[GreyTzu]

No one agrees with everyone else on a forum this large. Thick skin is necessary on the internet. If comments do not go your way, please take it up by PM. I am not locking this thread.

 

Jen, NeylasMom, is very much up to date on current science-based training methods and outdated training methods. SHE is currently training at a well-respected dog school in the Maryland/DC area.

 

Crate train your dog or not, as the adopter/owner it is your choice. You have to live with the consequences of your decision. We have had 8 greyhounds in our home, 4 current and 4 at the bridge, and never used a crate. That is our choice. My Mom raised and showed Afghans in the '50 and '60's, back when they were not groomed to within an inch of their life, and we never had crates either. My only suggestion, and I am sure someone as already suggested it, is the type of crate can be the difference in why a dog does not like the crate. Some dogs are freaked by the plastic airline-type crates and do better in a big sturdy wire crate. Or the opposite can also be true.

 

So let's all try to get along before someone will end up in the timeout corner. :rofl

[Guest SaltiDawg]

I apologize to ALL in this thread.

 

I have asked the moderators to remove my account from greytalk.

 

To the OP, I hope so much that your beautiful dog and you work ouyt any and all issues.

[KickReturn]

Lygracilux, it sounds you have a real winner in Fusion. I too have been blessed with the "perfect" Greyhound. Sensitive, well mannered, no accidents. Seemingly perfect in every way (even off leash but that is another story). Your first few days sound like mine. My boy was at the track for a long time, happy in his crate I assume. But from day one in my home the crate was an absolute no go. I would get rid of the crate! Also expect that he will prefer to sleep in your room. Make sure there is a comfy bed there. (In fact make sure there is a good bed in every room lol.)

 

It has been three years now and my greatest pride is I live with a Greyhound who has never heard a raised voice, never heard the word NO. Some of these dogs are just that good. My advice - count your blessings and take the lead from the dog. If you watch closely, he will let you know what is best for him. Try not to force anything. Such an approach is not for everyone or for the vast majority of dogs but it can work for the rare few. My only regret was not knowing such an approach was an option from the beginning. Be cautious, protect him and the cat, but "listen" to what he "says".

Edited September 21, 2014 by KickReturn

[Guest Lygracilux]

This has been a very entertaining and of course informative thread haha.

Thank you everyone for all of your opinions and guidance. It's good to hear everyone's perspective and point of view. Sorry if anyone's feelings got hurt. But I really don't think anyone was attacking or being rude. Just voicing opinions you definitely need thick skin for.

It seems to me that what KickReturn said: "If you watch closely, he will let you know what is best for him. Try not to force anything." Is definitely MY way to go. Fusion already knows that I'm the pack leader, over him and everyone else in my life haha. But that does not mean I'm going to force him to do something or anything he clearly doesn't enjoy or that makes him extremely uncomfortable. Lots of time and patience is the road I'll take when training him to do something, wether it be crating or something as simple as "lay down". I hopefully will have many many years with him, so all we have is time.

[Roo]

If you decide you want to crate train him, the best advice I've gotten or given was to feed in the crate. Make it a comfortable place with blankets, but also the place where he goes to eat. We did this with Dusty right when we got her and she loved her crate. If he doesn't want to go in at first, fine - just feed him near the crate. Start moving closer and closer until the bowl is in the crate (even if he's not!) and then eventually he'll end up in the crate to eat (or at least lick it clean). This only really works if you're not using a raised feeder, however.

 

It really does sound like he's going to be fine outside the crate, though! What a sweet-sounding (and handsome!) gentleman!

[Fruitycake]

I'm glad that your new boy is settling in so nicely, and that he isn't terribly destructive outside of the kennel! We didn't trust Monty outside the kennel (for mess issues and a little SA), for nearly a year - but we got rid of the crate about 3 months in and instead gave him a large X-pen (exercise pen) in the middle of the livingroom with a large cushy dog bed inside and his raised feeder in there too. And we trained him to go in using "kennel!" as a command - which meant and still does mean (even though we don't have a kennel anymore) "go to your dish!"

 

Training can be easy, if you have a food-centric dog and can be patient. Pushing doesn't really work on the "softer" dogs, and Monty is one of the "soft" greyhounds and will turn off if you push at him at all. But he loves his food, and when we paired having a treat in our hands and pointing down with his lying down to get a treat he caught on really fast! He now offers that behavior if we have something and he'd like a taste, or if the other dog is getting something, or the cats are getting something, or I even stand with my hands cupped as if I have something.