New Pup, Having A Tough Time

[jsullysix]

Hi all,

 

Been a very long time since I've posted, but I'm starting to feel like bringing home our most recent pup may not have been the best thing to do. I'm writing this as I'm upset, so I'm trying to give myself a grain of salt, but here goes....

 

My 13yo male passed last month (arthritis eventually got the best of him), and my 9yo brindle girl isn't really good at being the only dog. So we got her a friend; a 5yo male, who, like his predecessor, is outgoing, and a silly boy. Everyone in the home (me, the missus, and my 22yo son) love him. He's a bit of a marker indoors, so it's been belly bands, watching him like a hawk, praising when he pees outside, and crating while we're out (which isn't super long periods of time - a 3-4 hours at most).

 

The first week went pretty well; he's a good eater, he gets along with everyone in the house (and the cat); we're just working on getting him completely house trained. Things were moving along until day 7, when he soaked his belly band. Not a huge deal, we got him outside, praised when he peed, all the stuff you're supposed to do. He soaked his belly band again on day 8 (this past Sunday), while he was just laying on the tile in the kitchen (which he loves to do). Same thing this past Monday morning. Setbacks, yes, but not the end of the world; train, train, train, be vigilant. I got it. We got this. My son got home at 4pm Monday, went to let him out of his crate to see that he bent the front of it trying to break out. Strange, since was crated whenever no one was home all last week with no issue. Lots of dried spittle on the bars of the crate. I feel terrible that he's clearly not okay with being in his crate when no one is home (crate is in our bedroom, and he sleeps in his crate with the door closed at night with no issue). He's also a rather big boy and I don't think that an ex-pen is going to be much better (but I'm game).

 

No issues Monday evening while I'm home. Awesome. He's got free roam of the house while I'm home, he's Mister Dry Pants, things are lookin' up. I followed up with the group that I adopted him from (my 3rd from this group), and in discussing the potty training issue, they suggested he go to the vet to rule out a UTI, did that yesterday (Tuesday), no issues. Awesome! While I was home with him last night, he was again, Mister Dry Pants. Cool! He's peeing outside, getting treats when he does, and a lot of praise. I'm hopeful.

 

Today, my wife was home in the morning, he had free roam of the house (with the belly band on), no attempts to mark, and he's peeing outside. She had to work for a little bit in the late morning, so he was crated. Went in his crate, got praise and some cheese. All seemed well. She got home 2 hours later with the front of the crate caved inward, and his bed shredded. Oh no. When my wife got home, he's laying on what's left of his bed. She let him out of his crate, went outside to pee, praise, and all of that good stuff.

 

She had to leave for work at 4 (and my son gets home around 4:15), so we thought that 15 minutes would be good "alone testing" for him; my brindle girl has free roam of the house and can be trusted, and that's our desired state for our new guy, I told her that 15 minutes of alone time would be a good test. Before she left for work, she did a quick pre-test; House is dog proofed, he's got dry pants on, and she hopped in the car and drove around the block. Came home to soaked belly band; so much so that it leaked onto the floor. The crate is trashed, so he can't go back in there, so he's got roam of the house again. Not optimal, I agree, but there aren't really any places in the house where he can be contained (our house is pretty open). My son should just got home and called me; thankfully, the second test went better; his belly band is dry and it doesn't seem like he was destructive in the house. I don't know that he was alone for a full 15 minutes, as my wife stuck around a little longer before leaving, but it's a good sign, nonetheless.

 

Our boy who passed away wasn't great in a crate either, but he never peed in the house, so once he had free roam of the house, he was happy. I was hoping that this would be the same thing, but I'm afraid that signs seem to be pointing to SA. The last thing that I want to do is return him, but I don't know if we'll be able to handle that well. I'm at a real loss for answers right now.

 

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Have you tried any alone training? It sounds as if you are missing the most important part of this puzzle, he needs to understand you will return and that means alone training. There are many threads here about alone training, as well as "Adopting the retired Greyhound" Dummies Book goes into detail on how to alone train. Step back, relax, you can do this, it will now just take some extra time to get the boy to understand that you are not abandoning him.

[jsullysix]

Hey there,

 

Yep, familiar with alone training, but the unusable (until I get home) crate kinda forced the issue today. Will be doing a lot more of it (properly), for sure. I do have the Dummies book as well; it was the first thing I bought when I was considering adopting back in 2002. Thanks for the support, for sure, though, I appreciate it greatly!

 

Also noted that you're from the SW Chicago suburbs; I lived in the Wheaton/Naperville area for years and got my first grey from Greyhounds Only.

[Batmom]

Yep, no more crate, please, not ever. (I use crates, but once they break out or try to, The End.) Best bets are alone training, kennel muzzles (have to muzzle everybody, can't muzzle just one), and dogproof.

 

I would lose the belly band, too. Could be adding to his discomfort and nervousness. A Little Green Machine (or the equivalent spot cleaner that extracts moisture) is a good investment .

 

He hasn't been home very long. Give him a couple weeks to finish figuring things out (while you do some alone training etc.), and I bet the story will be way different. Best luck!

[Houndtime]

Can you baby gate him in a room; i.e. kitchen or larger bathroom?

[Guest IrskasMom]

Babygate

[jsullysix]

Thanks all, I appreciate the suggestions.

 

Baby gating is difficult because our house is very open, so there aren't really areas that he can be gated in. I also think that it's possible that he would just wind up breaking through the baby gate; he is a rather big boy, after all.

 

Will work on alone training, but I am concerned that we need to do something sooner than the training may allow for, if that makes sense. I don't want to put him in a crate if he is going to potentially hurt himself, but it is a little strange that he will sleep in one without a problem. Then again, he is sleeping in the room that we are in, too. Once I got out of bed this morning and was out of sight, he was barking and whining.

 

We do have an ex pen, and I can give that a try, but I would be concerned that he will collapse it down on himself.

 

Removing the bellyband could be a good idea, but I am concerned that it isn't going to help his potty training. Then again, wetting the bellyband doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent as it is.

 

Thanks again,

 

Sully

[Batmom]

The most important part of housetraining is to take the dog out A LOT in the early days -- like, every 1.5 hours. First thing on waking, right before breakfast, right after breakfast, right before you leave the house, as soon as you come back, right before dinner, right after dinner, right before bed, and every 1.5 hours in between those things. I also take them out if something exciting just happened (somebody rang the doorbell, we just had Fun With Toys), or if they've been lying down and now get up and start moseying around.

 

If you're going to be gone longer than an hour or two, it can also help to go for at least a 30-minute walk (assuming it isn't too hot where you are) to make sure he's empty and induce napping behavior .

[jsullysix]

Thanks; we've been taking him out on a regular basis. Generally every hour or so. Sometimes he'll pee, sometimes not, but I try to make sure that he's emptied himself as best as I can.

 

We did more walks last week, but in Dallas, it's been in the hundreds lately. Down to the low 90s now, so I'm going to take him for a walk once the sun sets.

[Batmom]

Yeah, tough to walk much in that weather.

 

I have had some that tended to mark (squirt a little here, squirt a little there) rather than empty out all at once, and that can make potty training take a bit longer. He'll get it -- keep the faith!

[jsullysix]

Yeah, he mixes it up between squirts and longer whizzes, so I make sure he has a few before he's "done", so to speak.

 

My immediate concern is what to do when we're all at work; I can walk him in the morning and try the crate (once I fix it) in the living room so he can see his brindle companion (she hangs out in the living room during the day), but I don't think that's going to get a different result. I can try an ex-pen, too, if that might be better. I think the main issue is that I'm not around.

 

The other option is to band him and let him

have free roam while we're out. My wife doesn't have a full day tomorrow, which is good, but I feel like I'm in a lesser of two evils; he doesn't want to be crated, but he's not had appropriate alone time training.

Edited August 28, 2014 by jsullysix

[Riverhound]

I'd treat for a UTI even if the vet says it's not a UTI. BTDT.

 

On the other hand, is he drinking excessively?

 

(And always, always, listen to Batmom!)

[Batmom]

Wouldn't crate him -- he's shown you that he's going to try to get out, and dogs who do that can run up some big vet bills if they don't die (not exaggerating; crating a dog who tries to get out is really really dangerous). I'd just muzzle both dogs and let him have free roam with whatever restrictions you can make (close the doors to rooms you haven't dogproofed or don't want him in).

[Jackandgrey]

I had similar issues with Jordy regarding both the crate and the peeing. I quit crating. As for the peeing it was anxiety for him mostly. It took a long time for him to get it- about 10 months I think. He caught onto my routine in the morning More quickly and I was able to leave the bellyband off then but the afternoon or evening took a long time. I come home for lunch. Having a bellyband clearly didn't work to teach him not to pee and so I didn't want him to be wet. I put a max absorbent male incontince pad in the belly band. That kep him dry, my house dry and my anxiety/frustration level down! He finally learned . He no longer wears a belly band and I no longer worry. He has free roam of the house with the other two. I totally get your frustration so take that for what it's worth.

[maria]

It's so hard at first. I think even though a lot of us have had other greys we just seem to forget it takes time and lots of patience for the first 3-6 months.

[jsullysix]

Thanks all.

 

Shutting it down for the night, and he goes to get in his crate. Weirdo. I was able to fix it, but I think we'll try sleeping on a bed outside of his crate (but with us). Wish us luck.

 

Sully

[greyhead]

Racers are carefully trained *not* to spoil their crates! They can get very upset when it happens. They may try to break out of a crate to keep it from happening if the urge to go is overwhelming. Agree with Riverhounds that UTI testing is in order and perhaps treatment even if a culture is negative. Ours has a flaming kidney infection presently, but the culture was negative and you can only infer it from his symptoms and from an ultrasound we just had. Same thing can happen with UTI's.

It has been a long day and I've read through this thread more quickly than I otherwise would, so I may have missed something. But I just wanted to say that personality attributions should be withheld until physical causes have been ruled out. That, and that use of a maxi pad in the belly band is very important, to keep the urine somewhat away from his skin (as Jackandgrey mentioned); otherwise, he could pick up an infection from that. Oh, and that I also would worry about him getting tangled up in an x-pen and hurting himself trying to get out of it (for the same reason, whatever it is, that he tried to get out of the crate).

[jsullysix]

I'd treat for a UTI even if the vet says it's not a UTI. BTDT.

 

On the other hand, is he drinking excessively?

 

(And always, always, listen to Batmom!)

 

The vet and I talked about how there's always a possibility of a UTI not showing up in the test, and if things don't seem to improve, we can treat him for it just in case. He does drink a fair amount of water, but I don't know that I'd call it excessive. As I think about what was going on in most of the belly band soaking events, it's generally me returning home. That was the case when I got home from work last night; my son had let him out, he peed three times, and had his dry belly band put back on. I got home less than ten minutes after he was back inside, and he had peed the band (even with maxi pads in it, it leaked).

 

Wouldn't crate him -- he's shown you that he's going to try to get out, and dogs who do that can run up some big vet bills if they don't die (not exaggerating; crating a dog who tries to get out is really really dangerous). I'd just muzzle both dogs and let him have free roam with whatever restrictions you can make (close the doors to rooms you haven't dogproofed or don't want him in).

 

Trying that this morning.

 

I had similar issues with Jordy regarding both the crate and the peeing. I quit crating. As for the peeing it was anxiety for him mostly. It took a long time for him to get it- about 10 months I think. He caught onto my routine in the morning More quickly and I was able to leave the bellyband off then but the afternoon or evening took a long time. I come home for lunch. Having a bellyband clearly didn't work to teach him not to pee and so I didn't want him to be wet. I put a max absorbent male incontince pad in the belly band. That kep him dry, my house dry and my anxiety/frustration level down! He finally learned . He no longer wears a belly band and I no longer worry. He has free roam of the house with the other two. I totally get your frustration so take that for what it's worth.

 

Thanks! I keep maxi pads in the band, but might switch to something intended for the issue, as there have been a few times where he soaked the pads to the point where they leaked.

 

It's so hard at first. I think even though a lot of us have had other greys we just seem to forget it takes time and lots of patience for the first 3-6 months.

 

Agreed, and thanks for acknowledging that! I've had greys since 2002, but haven't brought a new one home in about 7 years.

 

Racers are carefully trained *not* to spoil their crates! They can get very upset when it happens. They may try to break out of a crate to keep it from happening if the urge to go is overwhelming. Agree with Riverhounds that UTI testing is in order and perhaps treatment even if a culture is negative. Ours has a flaming kidney infection presently, but the culture was negative and you can only infer it from his symptoms and from an ultrasound we just had. Same thing can happen with UTI's.

 

It has been a long day and I've read through this thread more quickly than I otherwise would, so I may have missed something. But I just wanted to say that personality attributions should be withheld until physical causes have been ruled out. That, and that use of a maxi pad in the belly band is very important, to keep the urine somewhat away from his skin (as Jackandgrey mentioned); otherwise, he could pick up an infection from that. Oh, and that I also would worry about him getting tangled up in an x-pen and hurting himself trying to get out of it (for the same reason, whatever it is, that he tried to get out of the crate).

 

I know he's not trying to get out because he has to pee, he has been checked for a UTI, and I do put pads in the belly band.

 

He slept out of a crate last night, even though he seemed confused that he wasn't going to go to bed in his crate. I know I kinda mentioned it last night, but when it was time for everyone to go to bed, he happily started to trot into his crate (I fixed it). If there were beds in there, I might have let him sleep in there with the door open (and still might give him that option), but since I had beds out of the crate and I'd already set up a spot for him on the floor, I stuck to that. I think I slept with one eye open; he generally sleeps quietly and through the night in his crate, but any collar jangle woke up up (which isn't a big deal). The crate thing is weird; he'll sleep in one happily at night, but he clearly doesn't like it anymore when no one is home and he's crated. He had free roam of his foster house and slept in a crate alongside of 4 other dogs in a crate, so I guess he's okay with a crate at bedtime.

 

I woke up early this morning, took both kids for a walk (he peed about 3x), fed them and let them out a little later, and he pooped and peed a little. My wife is home this morning, so he's banded and not crated, but I closed him in our bedroom with our other grey, and my wife (I left before she had to be up). When I closed the door, I could hear him (or someone) pawing at the door a little. My wife told me that he wanted to paw at the door, but she gave him a "NO" and he then went to lay down. No barking, and his pants are dry.

 

When we're home and can watch him like a hawk, I think that we may unband him, but I'm not 100% sure on that just yet. I did that last night with no issue, but I don't want to keep changing EVERYTHING if that makes sense.

 

Sully

Edited August 28, 2014 by jsullysix

[greyhead]

We had success with maximum absorbency incontinence pads. I shouldn't have said "maxi pad."

[jsullysix]

We had success with maximum absorbency incontinence pads. I shouldn't have said "maxi pad."

 

It's all good; thanks for the tip!

[jsullysix]

Morning went fine; free roam, banded, no problems. Wife let him out to pee before she left for alone time (15 min). Came home to soaked band on the tile. Also knocked his food dish over (no big deal).

 

He's been fine since she got home. Seems more like SA than potty training to me. Buying a kong and stuffing for it and hope that'll help a little.

[Guest sireltonsmom]

You might consider Depends or doggie rubber pants for the short term. Also, if no physical issues exist, while you are alone training him, maybe something like "Good Dog" in his water to calm him when you are gone might help. Please don't give up on him. I see you're doing heroics now - keep it up. I'm sure this will pass (no pun intended). My Sir Elton hated the crate - gave him severe anxiety. Hopefully you get good results from all the people's advice here and you have the fortitude to hang in there. Good luck.

 

[jsullysix]

You might consider Depends or doggie rubber pants for the short term. Also, if no physical issues exist, while you are alone training him, maybe something like "Good Dog" in his water to calm him when you are gone might help. Please don't give up on him. I see you're doing heroics now - keep it up. I'm sure this will pass (no pun intended). My Sir Elton hated the crate - gave him severe anxiety. Hopefully you get good results from all the people's advice here and you have the fortitude to hang in there. Good luck.

 

 

Thank you (and everyone else) for the kind words and support! Also bought a 52 pack of Depends. I joked with the cashier and asked her to hurry because I drank a lot of iced tea a little while ago.

 

Chatted with the adoption group and we kinda agree that this is more in the realm of SA and hopefully just getting settled in. I just discovered the DAP diffuser; anyone have good results with it? I'm going to pick one up on the way home.

 

And really, look at that face; he's the sweetest thing ever and is such a good boy. He just hates it when he's alone (even with his brindle companion, Nico).

 

 

Sully

[carronstar]

He is beautiful! Well, handsome.

 

I had good luck with the DAP diffuser with my SA girl and hers was fairly extreme. I also did a lot of alone training with her. My neighbors used to see me in the hallway a lot! I also got her a walker because it became clear that her breakdown point was at the 4 hour mark. Your boy seems to be on a shorter timeclock but you are experienced, you know what you are doing and you are committed. All good things.

[jsullysix]

Thanks Carronstar!

 

He seems to do whatever he's gonna do within the first 5-10 minutes or so. Glad that the DAP diffuser worked for you; I'll definitely get one on my way home today. I'm also off work all next week, but have a fair amount of work to do in my garage (I build guitars). I think it'll work well for alone training since I can come and go as much as I need to. Granted, I have work that I need to get done, but I can give him 5-15 minute intervals of alone time for a while and stretch it out during the week. I hope that will be enough to settle him in, or at least a solid start.

 

Sully