New Pup, Having A Tough Time

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Sully,

You are getting a lot of good advice. I live in Bolingbrook and work in Naperville/Warrenville. Some of my co-workers live in Wheaton and I do a lot of GO things in the Wheaton area, so I do know the area well. I help out GO with adoptions and fostering they are a pretty good group.

 

Chad

[jsullysix]

Sully,

You are getting a lot of good advice. I live in Bolingbrook and work in Naperville/Warrenville. Some of my co-workers live in Wheaton and I do a lot of GO things in the Wheaton area, so I do know the area well. I help out GO with adoptions and fostering they are a pretty good group.

 

Chad

 

Thanks Chad!

 

GO is definitely a great group; I really enjoyed the meet and greets and helped foster a bit before I moved to Dallas. Was very sad to hear of Suzan's passing in July; my first grey was her first foster and we remained close over the years. Miss her a lot.

 

Sully

[jsullysix]

Home with 2 DAP diffusers and a Kong. He's got dry pants. Allllllriiiiiiiite.

[IansMom]

I'm sorry this is a tough time. This may seem like too simple of a solution, but have you tried the Canine Lullabies Heartbeat Therapy CDs?GPA in Houston often suggests using them (they sell them too!). I have no personal interest in this company, just so you know. The company offers free copies to rescue organizations. Here's a link http://www.caninelullabies.com

If you use amazon prime, this item is available with free 2 day shipping

BTW, he's a good looking boy!

[jsullysix]

haven't heard of that, but will check it out!

 

The DAP diffuser might be the greatest thing ever. He's been a rather good boy this evening. Granted, he usually is a good boy at night, but we've not had any issues and he's not been wearing any pants since I've been home from work.

 

Sully

[3greytjoys]

Great that the DAP and Kong are helping your handsome new boy!

You're probably already doing some of the following but I'll share some thoughts...

Agree with allowing your boy to remain in the room with his new Greyhound sister. Her calmness will help him transition, even if he appears to be completely focused on humans. That said, while alone training, try to keep your resident girl safely separated to avoid a fight over the high value food Kong.

Great that the stuffed Kong is helping keep your boy occupied.

Remember to pick up stuffed Kong every time you return to the room so the Kong remains his "special departure treat" to enjoy only when humans are out of sight.

If you can watch him without him seeing you, it's best to return to pick up the Kong before he starts frantically looking for a human.

Reaching the first 30 minutes of a dog's calm behavior is the most important time to not rush alone training. Just try to be patient and go slowly. After a dog is comfortable with being alone for 30 minutes, they usually advance in lengthing comfortable time alone much faster and more easily. Try to keep him under his discomfort threshold.

While working on alone training, start with less than five minutes alone initially, then build time slowly as his comfort level allows while he's working on his Kong or otherwise appears calm. If he goes above threshold, drop back to his last comfortable time.

If you feed dry kibble meals, consider adding water to kibble to help schedule his elimination needs. He will still need access to water 24/7, but might be a little less thirsty later.

An alternative busy boy idea during training is to feed his kibble meals from inside the Kong, or from a food cube toy (but the extra water benefit would be lost).

No fanfare during departures or arrivals. Upon your return, quietly take him outside to eliminate, but delay other attention for a few minutes just until after he calms down.

Sounds like you're already doing a great job remaining calm, positive, and rewarding good behavior.

(Just a caution for new readers: please avoid reprimanding dogs when they have an accident. Whether a dog is having a medical difficulty or new home transitional fear (anxiety is fear-based), reprimanding increases and magnifies dogs' anxiety tenfold+++ for a long, long time. It takes many hundreds of atta boys to even attempt to counteract one reprimand.)

I agree about no crates or ex-pens when he's left alone. If your boy was in a racing kennel, sounds like he might like sleeping in an open-door crate at night for familiarity but only when he is in close direct sight of his people sleeping and his Greyhound sister. It's not too surprising that he's having trouble handling being left alone in the crate in a strange new environment after being abducted from the only life he's ever known in kennels full of Greyhounds and people.

BTW, it's a great victory that he stopped scratching the door and laid down when your wife told him "no". It's a bonus having three people relating to him so he doesn't hyper-attach to one human. Sans baby-gate, while other humans are in the house to distract him, consider periodic human bathroom visits alone (sans dog). These can act as mini-alone training sessions so he understands you can be on the other side of a closed door for a moment, but you will return quickly.

Since you have a cat, I imagine you'll ensure your cat is kept safely separated (even in a bathroom) while unsupervised.

Edited August 29, 2014 by 3greytjoys

[jsullysix]

Thanks 3greyjoys!

 

One thing that I should have clarified; my earlier post about picking up the DAP and Kongs and his dry pants was posted at a time when I just got home with the Kong and DAP, and just did a pants check.

 

We did have a really good night, but I'm considering letting him sleep in his crate; he sleeps much more soundly in there (even with the door closed) than he does outside of his crate (but on a bed). I'm assuming he's okay with sleeping in his crate because:

 

1. That's how it was at his foster home

2. We're all sleeping in the same room

 

I did some alone time training with him last night; we went from 1 minute to 5 with no problems, and he had a good walk, so he was really relaxed. I thought that the DAP was assisting with that, but there's no way to really know.

 

My wife had to work a little bit this morning out of the house (she's a figure skating coach/choreographer), and we decided to let him stay out of the crate, but have the Kong. It was in the freezer with peanut butter filling overnight, and I don't know if he likes it; I'm at work, and we're trying it out this morning. So he's got a belly band on, a Kong, his sister, and two DAP diffusers in the main room that he's in (Our house is mostly open, so I have one at either end of the room). Mrs. Sully will be home in about 45 minutes, and I'm hoping that he's had some progress. I most likely will be leaving work early today (stick it to the man!), so he may not have any unavoidable alone time today. I'll work with him more on alone training.

 

My question about the alone training is this; how do I know that he's staying under threshold if I'm not in the house? Is it more of a "he had no accidents at 5 minutes, but he had accidents at 10 minutes, so let's try 7 minutes" kind of thing?

 

Thanks, and wish us luck. I'm feeling like there's at least some things that can help him while we're out (Kong, DAP), but I don't want to put all of my faith in those things and have setbacks. Granted, setbacks are going to happen, but I'm hoping to lessen the setbacks, if you will.

 

Sully

[3greytjoys]

To answer your question re: threshold:

Yes, if you're not able to see him from a window, urinating is a definite sign to reduce alone time session duration.

Urination is one sign, but keep in mind that he still might have an undiagnosed underlying medical problem that surfaces more when he feels fear or excitement. (Imagine how humans feel the need to urinate more frequently when extremely nervous about a public presentation or important meeting.)

Also, considering he's so new and still learning house training, please be sure he completely eliminates within 5 minutes of your actual departures. Example: Some new dogs need about 3 potty outings on a regular work morning before their people depart (as outlined in Batmom's post). A morning walk is great for exercise to help tire them out. Some dogs (males and females) hold a urine reserve in their tank during walks to ensure they remain stocked for neighborhood pee-mail; in which case, their more successful last outing immediately before humans' departure is in their own yard (where they have less need to leave their scent).

 

Each dog's signs of alone discomfort are different. Here are a few common signs:

Some dogs are quiet, but stand at the last door from which their owner departed leaving a lake of drool from heavy panting.

Others might bark and howl for excessive lengths of time. (But this can be common for any new dog of any breed during a transition period.)

Some owners notice excessive chewing on items or around doors. (This is why stuffed Kongs can be so helpful to keep them busy during the important first 30 minutes of being alone. Chewing/licking calms and helps tire dogs mentally. Some dogs are happy with frozen Kongs, some prefer them at room temperature, depending on filling.)

There are more signs but I'll stop there for now. Just let us know how things go with your boy's situation. Allowing more time to adjust to his new home should help a lot.

 

BTW, I edited to clarify the following in my initial post:

"Reaching the first 30 minutes of a dog's calm behavior is the most important time to not rush alone training. Just try to be patient and go slowly. After a dog is comfortable with being alone for 30 minutes, they usually advance in lengthing comfortable time alone much faster and more easily. Try to keep him under his discomfort threshold."

 

"Since you have a cat, I imagine you'll ensure your cat is kept safely separated (even in a bathroom) while left unsupervised."

 

While you're off next week, as he learns the desired pet elimination areas, it might help to consider Batmom's mention about the belly band pressure possibly making him more uncomfortable(?). (Though I certainly understand the need for a belly band.)

 

Your quote re: the crate: "2. We're all sleeping in the same room"

Bingo! Yes, he's likely more comfortable sleeping in his familiar crate only at night while his new family "pack" is sleeping together with him in the same room. That feels more like his previous kennel "pack" life. He can relax knowing he won't be left alone overnight.

He just can't handle being left alone in a crate during the daytime.

[jsullysix]

Great info, thank you!

 

He did pee through his depends while Mrs. Sully was out this morning, but today's alone time went well, overall. He was quiet at 5 and 10 minutes, but I could hear him bark at 14:57. I was planning in coming in at 15 minutes, so I did. His pants were dry. I'm interpreting the bark as the first sign that he's at his threshold, so I'll keep working on the 15 minute mark. I'm not paying attention to him when I leave or come back, either.

 

Odd thing is that in between some of the tests, I did an "out of sight in another room test". I went in a bathroom for 3 minutes and closed the door; he peed. Interesting.

 

Thanks again, and I'll keep up the updates.

 

Sully

[Batmom]

For alone training, best if you totally leave the premises. If you're just outside the door or hiding under a window outside, the dog knows you're there and it will drive him/her nuts. I usually get in the car and drive around the block .

 

If he's peeing while you're just in the bathroom for 3 minutes, he either has a medical issue (infection that was just starting but not detectable when checked earlier; stones) or needs to go outside more. It's possible that everything is so new he isn't attending to business well when outside; a nice long leash walk is a good way to combat that .

[3greytjoys]

For alone training, best if you totally leave the premises. If you're just outside the door or hiding under a window outside, the dog knows you're there and it will drive him/her nuts. I usually get in the car and drive around the block .

Yes, thanks for that mention, Batmom.

 

My quote: "If you can watch him without him seeing you, it's best to return to pick up the Kong before he starts frantically looking for a human."

 

Some people drive away, park the car, then quietly walk back to take a peek through a different window to observe the dog's behavior (without the dog being alerted to hearing their owner or the car return). Observe whether he's still happily working on his Kong. If so, great. He might be ready to advance his time alone a little longer. Whatever works to try to stay below his stress threshold, so he continues to be well receptive to this new concept that being alone = yummy Kong reward for him.

(Works well to practice when he's hungry.)

[jsullysix]

I'll go for drives, then. I have been in the garage quietly, so I didn't think he would be able to tell if I was home or not, but I will get in the car today.

 

Had another episode of him peeing while I was in the bathroom; this time it happened after we got back in from a 45 minute walk. Whenever this happens (twice so far), it always seems to be tied to a specific event; I am not around, or he can't see me. It's kinda like how batmom mentioned that he knew I was there, but couldn't get to me, and it may have been driving him nuts. It really doesn't seem like a UTI issue to me, as this never happens when we are all together, relaxing, but I guess there's no harm in treating him for it. He does go out a lot, but he doesn't always pee; I think that like batmom said, it could be somewhat related to him still getting settled. It does help when his sister will go pee, and then he will pee on her pee, and then she will pee on his pee. It's actually kind of funny.

 

So far, I can't tell if he likes the Kong or not, and I'm not noticing a difference with the dap diffuser. Not sure how long that sort of thing takes to work or not, or if it's helping somewhat and I'm just not aware. But we will keep on with it. Also considering picking up a thundershirt, but I don't know just yet.

Edited August 30, 2014 by jsullysix

[Guest karilynn]

Oh man, it's so hard at first when they are that young. You've gotten such great advice, though. SA is not a fun issue, but it is something you can deal with. My first greyhound had to be returned due to SA (or just me being new to dog ownership and doing everything wrong and setting him up to fail) but either way, I live in an apartment and was on the verge of being evicted, so I didn't have the time to work with him that I wish I could have had. It's nice that you live in a house and that you can work on this, because I think with time and consistent effort, he will be such a great dog! I've since adopted another greyhound and knew what to do the second time around (alone training, treating him like a dog and not a human being, consistent training, etc.) and going on almost 3 years, he's perfect and so worth all of the work I put in at first.

 

Last summer my boyfriend and I brought home a puppy (not a greyhound) who sadly passed away a month later unexpectedly from congestive heart failure, but we had a few moments of total despair because it's an entirely new world going from having an easy dog to suddenly having a dog that requires constant supervision and consistent training. It'll get easier with time. And it's worth it!

[jsullysix]

Brief pupdate: crate is gone and we're up to 25 minutes of alone time while maintaining dry pants. I'm keeping the belly band on him for the most part so that he doesn't associate bands with me leaving the house.

[3greytjoys]

Great update!

 

If you're not already doing this, I strongly suggest that all adult family members share in his daily care during his transition, including feeding, letting into fenced yard for potty eliminations, and leash walking.

 

(New readers: Please don't allow children to leash walk Greyhounds. Greyhounds are strong, and should be leash walked by grown adults.)

[jsullysix]

Yep, everyone has been grey savvy for years and helping. Only setback today was my fault; shoulda put the water dish away after the last turnout. Well, at least it was on the tile.

[jsullysix]

And the hits keep coming. One step forward, 8,000 back. Today he peed more inside the house than out of it. I'm at my wits end.

 

He can't be crated because he'll destroy them, he can't be confined to a smaller area (he's big and knocks down baby gates with ease), he can't have more than 35 minutes alone, and while my wife's schedule is somewhat flexible, there are times when she has to, y'know, go to work.

 

I'm absolutely gutted. He's truly a very sweet boy and it's clear that he's very happy here. It's also clear that no matter what I try and how regimented I make his life, I've not been able to get him to not pee in the house. I wish that he had some kinda "I need to go out and pee" sign, but he doesn't. I've been off work all week for vacation, and I had planned to work on his alone time and get him on a schedule. And then my back went out Saturday playing with him in the yard; coincidentally, I was praising him for peeing outside, jumped up and down, and then felt a twinge and was out of commission for a while.

 

I've got a weekend commitment (teaching a guitar building class at home), and yes, I can try to be in the house every 30-40 minutes to see if his pants are dry, if he's okay, or if he needs to go out, but it's not super likely that I'll be able to. Everyone else in the house will be in and out, and I just don't have any more answers, and I can't resolve myself to having him in a belly band for the rest of his life. I'm out of ideas, I'm out of positivity, and I'm out of kleenex from crying about it.

 

Just. Ugh.

Edited September 5, 2014 by jsullysix

[greyhead]

Did you get a urine culture done or just a urinalysis?

[jsullysix]

Honestly, I don't know.

[greyhead]

I think it was Riverhound who earlier said she'd treat for a UTI anyhow. At this point, I think it's worth a try, and I think your vet said he was open to the idea. If a culture hasn't been done, you can do that, but they don't always tell the truth either, and they take 3-4 days to get a result. But it's usually E. coli, and it shouldn't be hard to pick the best antibiotic if you want to treat empirically. The stakes are getting pretty high, in terms of your sanity and the dog's maintaining his place in your home. I really feel for you.

[3greytjoys]

Is he staying dry overnight while he's sleeping with the family?

Is he having bowel movements inside the house too? If so, are they strictly associated with being alone also?

 

My suggestions:

 

Contact your adoption group to discuss his condition.

 

Take him back to a veterinarian re: a potential medical cause (maybe the adoption group would cover charges if he goes to their vet). Quote from my previous post: "...keep in mind that he still might have an undiagnosed underlying medical problem that surfaces more when he feels fear (anxiety) or excitement."

 

Ask the vet for anti-anxiety meds (to potentially begin administering after he is treated for a possible medical urinary problem). If an infection is not the problem, he could benefit from anti-anxiety meds while he's working through alone training (whether with you or not). Many anxiety meds need time to build-up in the dog's system. These meds are just to help him relax enough to become more receptive to alone training. They are not a substitute for alone training. It's important to do a trial test of any anti-anxiety medication while someone is home to watch him to ensure it has the desired (relaxing) affect on the dog.

 

Thank you for your update. You're all in our positive thoughts. Please keep us posted.

[jsullysix]

I think it was Riverhound who earlier said she'd treat for a UTI anyhow. At this point, I think it's worth a try, and I think your vet said he was open to the idea. If a culture hasn't been done, you can do that, but they don't always tell the truth either, and they take 3-4 days to get a result. But it's usually E. coli, and it shouldn't be hard to pick the best antibiotic if you want to treat empirically. The stakes are getting pretty high, in terms of your sanity and the dog's maintaining his place in your home. I really feel for you.

 

Yeah, will call the vet today and get a round of antibiotics for him, just in case. I really don't think that it's a UTI, since it seems like he pees as a result of a trigger (me or anyone else being gone), but since the vet was open to treating it just in case, then why not.

 

 

Is he staying dry overnight while he's sleeping with the family?

Is he having bowel movements inside the house too? If so, are they strictly associated with being alone also?

 

My suggestions:

 

Contact your adoption group to discuss his condition.

 

Take him back to a veterinarian re: a potential medical cause (maybe the adoption group would cover charges if he goes to their vet). Quote from my previous post: "...keep in mind that he still might have an undiagnosed underlying medical problem that surfaces more when he feels fear (anxiety) or excitement."

 

Ask the vet for anti-anxiety meds (to potentially begin administering after he is treated for a possible medical urinary problem). If an infection is not the problem, he could benefit from anti-anxiety meds while he's working through alone training (whether with you or not). Many anxiety meds need time to build-up in the dog's system. These meds are just to help him relax enough to become more receptive to alone training. They are not a substitute for alone training. It's important to do a trial test of any anti-anxiety medication while someone is home to watch him to ensure it has the desired (relaxing) affect on the dog.

 

Thank you for your update. You're all in our positive thoughts. Please keep us posted.

 

He stays dry overnight, yeah. Pooped in the house once, but that was my fault: I let him out first thing in the morning to pee, and after he did, I fed him and took care of some laundry while he was eating. He was done before I was, and he pooped. That was the only time, and I just wasn't fast enough. I'm thankful that his only response to being alone has been peeing in his pants; he hasn't been destructive in the house, nor has he pooped in the house while alone.

 

Will consider the anti anxiety meds after we get through a round of antibiotics.

 

It's been a busy weekend, so I apologize for the timeliness of my reply.

 

So far, we haven't had any days like last Thursday (my "one step forward, 8,000 back" day), but he also hasn't been alone in the house for longer than 50 minutes or so since that post. I mentioned that I had a guitar building class at my garage workshop over the weekend and I was able to get back into the house to check on him every 45-50 minutes or so while I was the only one at home. Once my wife came home from work or when my son was up (22 year old that sleeps in on the weekends), they were on duty, so to speak,and it went okay. It's been a long weekend, but I remember that he had 2 pee episodes on Friday (once after our 30min morning walk where he got to the point that he'd lift his leg and nothing came out), and I think once around 5pm (just before I came in to feed him). I think we may have been all clear or had one episode Saturday, and I remember one on Sunday morning. The two morning episodes were after a long walk, and when I had to pee (sorry for the TMI).

 

I've been in regular contact with the group, so they're aware of how things have been going. I haven't brought up a potential return because I REALLY don't want to do that. It's clear that he's happy here and he really loves being with us, but there will be times when my wife has to go to work, and he's just going to have to be alone for a while. She's home today until 3pm, and I may or may not be able to leave a bit early, but I'm not super certain that I can (especially after being off for a week). I can go home for lunch each day this week if my wife won't be home, so that might help a bit, too. Honestly, I'm concerned how this weekend will go, as I have another class on Saturday and Sunday, and my wife is going to visit her folks in Tennessee for the weekend and leaves on Friday. I'm hoping that he will improve if we stick to our routine (I let them out first thing in the morning, feed them, let them back out, then walk them for 30min in the morning), give him a KONG or a flavored bone when we have to go, and try to keep him under his threshold as best as we can while trying to add time gradually.

 

The nice thing is that I'll be working from home at my own business effective 10/1, so if we can keep building his alone time threshold until then (he's good for about 45-50 minutes), things will be a bit easier for him. Granted, me just being home won't necessarily fix the problem, but I'm hoping that he'll have some steady improvement leading up to that time.

 

Sully

Edited September 8, 2014 by jsullysix

[Batmom]

You are doing all the right things and obviously love your boy. Best wishes that your works pays off!

[jsullysix]

Thanks Batmom. As an aside, while my post count is very low, I remember your pup, Batman, who had the roman nose. Growing up loving Batman as a kid, I always got a kick out of the fact that somewhere out there, someone was saying "c'mon, Batman! Let's go outside and pee!" or "hmmmm, I wonder if Batman would like this kind of kibble?" or "Batman just got neutered yesterday, so he's feeling a little sore" or something similar. When we adopted the new boy (we named him Banksy, after the street artist, because they both seem to enjoy marking on walls), we found out his racing name was San Tan Superman. Since he's so big and strong, Superman was definitely in the running for a name.

 

Yesterday was a good day; he did have some alone time (the longest was about an hour and 5-10 minutes or so), and did well. He wasn't alone for much of the day, but I'm really happy that he made it alone for an hour. My wife said that they slept most of the morning, and she saw a positive sign that he might be "getting it"; around 11:00, he and his sister came over to her as if to say "time to pee", so she let them out, and he peed right away. Sweet. He was great after I got home, but he also tried to raise his leg in the house again. Weird. I haven't seen him do that since week 1. Something about that tells me that mayyyyyybe he's figuring stuff out...? I know that seems odd, but it's almost as if he's thinking "okay, I don't pee when they leave.....soooo, maybe try this leg lifting thing real quick?" I dunno, I'm probably overthinking things (which isn't something I'm often accused of).

 

Today will be somewhat of a challenge, as he will be alone for about an hour and a half or so this morning, and then probably for about the same time this afternoon. I'm not super confident about it, but I'm hoping the not so little dude will make us proud. He's got a Kong and a Bento Ball filled with treats. Fingers crossed.

 

Sully

[Batmom]

re Batman. How sweet that you remember my funny boy!

 

Will keep fingers crossed that your boy is starting to clue in. If he can go an hour, there may still be some setbacks but that is a very good sign.