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Glad to hear about your progress!

 

I just wanted to make one comment about belly bands. They're training tools that are really just intended for dogs who mark, not dogs who aren't housetrained. The difference is that markers will generally lift their leg and pee a bunch of times, but only a small amount. The belly band acts as a deterrant because it provides the dog with an immediate "correction." Not only does it not allow the pee to escape and mark the intended item, it also causes an unpleasant sensation. The idea is that with enough corrections, the dog stops marking. Then if necessary, you can reintroduce the tool if the dog is ever put in a new situation where he might have the urge to mark (a hotel room, friend's house, etc.)

 

If your guy is saturating the belly band everyday, or multiple times a day, that's a cause for concern. The stale pee just sits there against the dog's body, creating a huge breeding ground for bacteria. If he didn't have a UTI before, the belly band could certainly be causing him to get recurrent infections now. I know it's more convenient to have the pee concentrated in one area, but training-wise, I don't think this is your best option long-term.

 

IMHO, you'd be better off do a few days of intensive training using the umbilical method. You tether the dog to your waist with a leash, then absolutely do not let him out of your sight. If you see him try to pee, immediately interrupt, then take him outside. Reward every outside pee with treats and praise. I haven't read all of the updates, but if you're finding that the peeing is more SA-related (i.e. the act of you leaving is a clear-cut trigger for his accidents whether it be five hours or five minutes), you may need to re-think an alone training regime and a confinement method that works for him. Since he can't be crated, you could try gating him in a room that has floors that are easy to clean. Kitchens usually work well.

 

Good luck!

Edited by a_daerr
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Just checked back in to this thread. It may not always seem it, but you are definitely making progress. A-daerr has a good point about the belly band and marking/house training.

 

On the up side, your boy clearly loves you completely! That is a good thing.

 

I definitely know the ripped cushion from nesting issue. I have one now and my first girl was the same way. I have spent a ridiculous amount of money on covers for her couch over the years. Her nails are black so getting them really short has been impossible. I am now using a sheet that I got almost a year ago. It is not the standard jersey but is one of the jersey/t-shirt material flat sheets. So far, so good. I make sure it isn't tight so she can push it around almost as much as she digs into it.

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Glad to hear about your progress!

 

I just wanted to make one comment about belly bands. They're training tools that are really just intended for dogs who mark, not dogs who aren't housetrained. The difference is that markers will generally lift their leg and pee a bunch of times, but only a small amount. The belly band acts as a deterrant because it provides the dog with an immediate "correction." Not only does it not allow the pee to escape and mark the intended item, it also causes an unpleasant sensation. The idea is that with enough corrections, the dog stops marking. Then if necessary, you can reintroduce the tool if the dog is ever put in a new situation where he might have the urge to mark (a hotel room, friend's house, etc.)

 

If your guy is saturating the belly band everyday, or multiple times a day, that's a cause for concern. The stale pee just sits there against the dog's body, creating a huge breeding ground for bacteria. If he didn't have a UTI before, the belly band could certainly be causing him to get recurrent infections now. I know it's more convenient to have the pee concentrated in one area, but training-wise, I don't think this is your best option long-term.

 

IMHO, you'd be better off do a few days of intensive training using the umbilical method. You tether the dog to your waist with a leash, then absolutely do not let him out of your sight. If you see him try to pee, immediately interrupt, then take him outside. Reward every outside pee with treats and praise. I haven't read all of the updates, but if you're finding that the peeing is more SA-related (i.e. the act of you leaving is a clear-cut trigger for his accidents whether it be five hours or five minutes), you may need to re-think an alone training regime and a confinement method that works for him. Since he can't be crated, you could try gating him in a room that has floors that are easy to clean. Kitchens usually work well.

 

Good luck!

 

I'm with you about belly bands and I also had the cleanliness concern. At this point, I'm doing the best that I can. I don't have the luxury right now of having a few days/weeks where rigorous alone time can happen. My schedule is going to open up 10/1, which is great. Until then, I feel that I need to stay the course and minimize damage as best as I can right now. You also hit the nail on the head where most of the peeing (I'd say about 98% of it now) happens when I leave. The other thing that's a drag about the belly band is that the intended result (creating an unpleasant sensation) doesn't seem to bother him in the least.

 

Sadly, he cannot be enclosed in any way; I've tried, and it's either a danger to him or completely ineffective. He's huge and has pulled down ex pens and he can knock down babygates like dominoes (I've tried). The other issue is that my house is VERY open. It'd be AWESOME if I were able to confine him to the kitchen, as he adores lying down on the tile, but it's not possible with the floorplan of my house. We have multiple bands, wash them daily and line them with Depends. He's also going through a round of antibiotics as a "just in case" UTI treatment. I know it's not perfect, but I'm doing the best that I can right now.

 

 

Just checked back in to this thread. It may not always seem it, but you are definitely making progress. A-daerr has a good point about the belly band and marking/house training.

 

On the up side, your boy clearly loves you completely! That is a good thing.

 

I definitely know the ripped cushion from nesting issue. I have one now and my first girl was the same way. I have spent a ridiculous amount of money on covers for her couch over the years. Her nails are black so getting them really short has been impossible. I am now using a sheet that I got almost a year ago. It is not the standard jersey but is one of the jersey/t-shirt material flat sheets. So far, so good. I make sure it isn't tight so she can push it around almost as much as she digs into it.

 

He has dark nails as well; we're putting heavy blankets on the couch now. Wish I would have done that sooner. I've had 4 greys now and he's the first one that actually gets up on the couch. Yes, I've been fortunate in that regard. :)

 

As mentioned, he was dry as a bone yesterday, and I was so relieved (pardon the pun). He's been dry all day so far today, too. He wasn't alone for very long today (about an hour), but I'll take it. While the other day was rough after I got home, there seems to be a positive trend that he's been staying dry for the majority of the day for a few days in a row. I'm hopeful that we may be through the hardest part.

 

Thanks to everyone for the continued support!

 

Sully

 

Edit: Was watching him on the webcam and just saw him pee. ugh.

Edited by jsullysix
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Hmm, I've read but not had really much to add to the conversation, but if he's doing damage to the couch and you don't want him there when you're gone, can you just block him from the couch? Maybe go to Goodwill or somehow get a chair or something specific for him to lie on and block off "your" couch when you're away? So he'd still have his couch-like place, which could end up pretty yucky and maybe torn up but it would be his?

 

Just a thought. The only time our Monty has ever tried to get on the furniture was when we had some super, ultra, massively delicious treats and we were trying to train our nongrey that she could have our loveseat as her place (instead of our couch). Monty wanted some so jumped up quick as anything when we told her to! He got his treat and jumped right back down and hasn't offered to get up on anything since then.

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Ok, this is too cute.

 

If he wakes up before me, it's usually just a couple of minutes, and he'll come over to my side of the bed and lay down up against my laundry hamper. Sometimes, it MIGHT overflow a little (like today), but he's very happy to lay on my clothes; they're fluffy and all, and well, they probably smell like me. Anyway, he was doing that this morning, and I thought "hmmmmm.....maybe if I put one of my shirts on his bed, it'll help him out a little when I'm gone." So I did.

 

My wife left a couple of minutes after I did, and I've been watching him all morning on the webcam. He hasn't moved from his bed. He's been alone since 8:30am up until 11:40. I saw my wife come home, and he stayed on his bed. Granted, they DO sleep a lot during this time, but I wondered if the shirt helped.

 

...my wife sent me this

 

15174640177_ba64060e1e_b.jpg

 

He looks like a bandit with a shirt mask in the top pic. :) There's something about it that I find really sweet.

 

Again, I don't know if it's helped him or not, but he's dry and he seems to be doing okay today.

 

Sully

 

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Guest Lygracilux

Hi! I've been following this thread from the start, and let me say- You seem to be such a great and caring dad, and you can tell he loves you so much.

 

My fiance and I found a shepherd mix once-unfortunately we couldn't keep him long as we weren't ready for a dog by any means, and it wasnt fair to him. But we couldnt just stand by and watch him die alone during a cold winter. We did find him an amazing home with a family friend though.

 

He sounds identical to what your boy is like when you're home and not home. When we were in the comfort of our place with him, he was lovey, perfect, smart, happy...but the second we left he turned into a crazy...peeing EVERYWHERE, howling, broke out of his crate, chewed through a door, etc. Worst case of SA I had ever seen.

There was no way we were going to find him a home like that. So lots and lots of alone training got it to the point where he wasnt destroying anything, and wasnt howling. But he would still pee. It was random- one day wed be gone for 5 mins and he peed, one day we were gone for a couple hrs and he was fine, visa versa...

After 4 months of training, he would still pee randomly. Some days he wouldnt, some days he would, soaking his belly band + maxi pad everytime..

 

We informed the new adopters of his "condition" and he's finally not peeing after a couple months with them. Shes a stay at home mom, so had the time to work with it. And though it took a total of 6 months-hes a prefect happy doggie now.

I think it almost became habit, with us. That he just loved us SO much, he couldnt bear to be without us. We didnt have all of the time for him, though I wish we had...

 

 

I do believe that your smell on your shirt may be helping him feel calm. Because like our old pup, he loves you just so so much. Maybe just knowing that a "piece" of you is there, helps him out just a tiny bit.

And thats just it, a tiny bit at a time. He wont do this forever, though I know its frustrating. He will eventually understand.

 

Goodluck, and keep us updated.

 

 

Ps: your boy is GORGEOUS

Edited by Lygracilux
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Thanks everyone! Today has been an awesome day. Dry as a bone all day long. We've been outside a bunch to just have fun, and it's been a really nice evening so far. Here are some moments from our fun.

 

With sister Nico

 

15363939792_4d40f64004_z.jpg

 

Nico says she's NOT gonna play with him.

 

15341233566_fc2f51ebd4_z.jpg

 

He said he'd smile all handsome-like for a picture....

 

15364244405_ae1e2c29b9_z.jpg

 

...but says that he'll practice selfies soon.

 

15363936952_6a9eee0a26.jpg

 

Thanks again for the support, and we'll keep everyone posted!

 

Sully

Edited by jsullysix
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:) :) :) :) :)

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Bravo for his dry times, and your continued dedication to help him succeed!

 

In his case, I agree that leaving a large piece of your worn clothing could feel comforting to him, but only if you're sure he will not attempt to chew or ingest it. (We often recommend using an owner's worn clothing when trying to capture/trap a loose dog. Also, when initially teaching tracking dog breeds, supervised dogs practice with items with their human's scent.)

 

Assuming you have packing blankets for gigs, those blankets could help save your sofa. Better yet, pet stores sell flat plastic pieces with plastic spikes that deter pets from furniture or counters (same concept as an upside down desk chair mat for carpets, but sized for sofas). Many excellent reasons to teach new dogs to enjoy dog beds vs. human furniture.

 

If ever needed in the future, carpet padding manufacturers have invented waterproof carpet padding which keeps subfloor dry.

 

While you're teaching/praise party for good potty business behavior, I'd encourage you to also teach/praise with separate words for urine vs. bowel movements. Thereafter, it allows you to be completely clear about exactly what you're waiting for him to accomplish before going back inside. All of our Greyhounds do understand the difference between pee-pee and poo-poo. They often try to minimize their "business" outings to get back inside faster, but they respond immediately when told which action we're awaiting. :)

 

I agree about leashing him to a human for a couple of days for immediate correction if you think he might try to urinate inside even though someone is home with him. Just be careful to not overdo the umbilical cord method for too many days because it could increase his dependence on his favorite human.

 

Great to praise desired independent behavior while you're home too (e.g., teach him to lie on his bed across the room vs. underfoot, etc.). I agree that patience is an important key. Greys are so highly sensitive to humans' emotional states (and thoughts! lol) that they are much more receptive to learning when they feel all is happy and calm in their world. (Otherwise, they can shut down to learning, while building up longer lasting internal anxiety.)

 

Great that he's had multiple dry times alone, that's wonderful progress!

Fabulous photos of your handsome boy. He's clearly enjoying the love and fun of his new family life. Adorable pics of him snuggling with your shirt too. :)

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Wow, I think having a piece of your worn clothing is really helping him, love your pictures.

groupwindia-greytalk2.jpg

The handsome boy Brady, mid-morning nap. The sun, the sun feels so, so, so good.

I can't keep my eyes open ... ... Retirement agrees ...

... and the Diva Ms India, 2001 - 10/16/2009 ....

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Hey everyone!

 

The magic of the worn clothes may have worn off, so to speak, but he had a couple of dry days last week, which was great. This past weekend was accident filled, but I think that he was finally starting to get used to our schedule, and then I went ahead and changed it by being home all the time. :) Taking it in stride as best as I can, and gonna keep working on it.

 

He's also become a champion surfer; apparently, he really likes chicken fried rice. ;) not-so little stinker.

 

Sully

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  • 3 weeks later...

Brief update: no major changes; sometimes he'll go 1-2 days without an accident, and then he pees in the house. No rhyme or reason, no real triggers other than my absence at that particular moment.

 

Yesterday was kinda funny in a way; I had a phone call with an animal communicator (yes, I'm at the point where I'll try almost anything) whom I discovered in a thread here somewhere. She communicated with both of the furry kids and we eventually got to his peeing issue. I'll spare you the details, but as I was recapping the phone call with the missus, I found a rather large puddle. I'd been home all day, and we were on our schedule. He wound up with three incidents yesterday (he'll usually just have one). So much for that idea.

 

I've been in touch with the group; they're out of ideas but have asked if I want to return him. There are parts of me that does (when he pees in the house), but no, we don't want to do that. He's clearly very happy here, and I can't imagine what returning him would do to him (not to mention the next family), so we're just going to keep moving forward and hope that he'll figure it out soon. Or eventually. I really wish that we could pull up the carpet. Oy.

 

Sully

Edited by jsullysix
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I'm sorry you haven't seen more improvement yet. It's common for S.A. dogs to become more hyper-attached when a family member is suddenly home much more often.

 

A few more things come to mind:

- Most importantly, I assume you're still very actively alone training within his comfort tolerance. Even if you don't see much improvement, please do keep it up. This transition time from working away from home to suddenly working from home is a key training opportunity that can set the pace for his future behavior.

 

- If the urine scent is/was not completely removed (if he can still smell urine), he's more likely to continue the pattern. You might try contacting the manufacturer of your current product about their "product guarantee", and any additional cleaning suggestions their reps. suggest. Thereafter, if you haven't already done so, might be worth trying a different urine elimination product. Not all cleaning solutions are created equally. E.g., IIRC, Nature's Miracle changed their solution some years ago after the company was sold. BTW, some manufacturers won't guarantee their product if other products were used also; helps to ask first.

 

- I'm curious if he's giving any signals when he needs to urinate when people are home i.e., walking to food/water bowl, pacing, sniffing the floor, approaching someone for "attention" (often misunderstood for petting attention), etc.

His situation still points to S.A., but IF he's still having any accidents while someone is home, you might consider trying to teach him to ring a bell so he can communicate clearly that he needs to go outside to do business. (I know he's been vet checked, but if he has some sort of medical malfunction that doesn't communicate to his brain that he needs to urinate, a bell may not help him.)

 

Here is one of my previous posts about teaching dogs how to ring a bell:

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/309233-teach-to-ask-to-go-out/?p=5743290

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Honestly, I've not been super great about the alone time since I've been home more often; he's been fine for a few hours at a time, and then can pee when he's alone for 15 minutes. It's been difficult to figure his threshold. It's also been at least a few days since he's been accident free; we seem to be back to 1-3 per day. I think we'll be going back to square one for the alone training.

 

Your comment about becoming hyper attached really struck me, because that's definitely something I've noticed over the past few days.

 

It's hard to notice any signals, because if I'm around, he keeps his proverbial pants dry, and saves the whizz for when I'm gone. If I see him just walking around aimlessly, I'll let him outside just in case. Good idea on the bell ringing trick, I'll check it out.

 

Sully

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I know some people discourage dog doors, but maybe it's something to think about? You've clearly done all the textbook things, none of which have worked. At this point, you've got to be sick of cleaning up pee!

 

My AKC greyhound was 15 weeks old when I brought him home, and up until that point, he was accustomed to a fenced-in run (i.e. pottying wherever and whenever he felt like). We had similar issues with crate anxiety. Combine that with a little puppy bladder, multiple accidents, the residual smell of pee, and the fact that it was the dead of winter... we had the perfect storm of housebreaking issues. At a certain point, we said, "Okay, we've failed at this. What do we do now?" And that was the day I spent $1500 ripping up carpet and installing the dog door.

 

It's funny because once he had the freedom to go outside at will, the indoor accidents stopped. He basically "taught himself" to be housetrained. Now, we can go out of town and stay in others houses/hotels, and he doesn't have accidents anymore.

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