To Crate Or Not To Crate

[Guest rarmstrong]

Hello All! I need your advice on whether or not to crate my guy.

 

I've had Willis since Sunday evening. I haven't officially adopted him yet, but fully intend to. Overall, I feel like we are a good match and he could learn to transition into my home. The first dog I attempted to adopt have really severe SA. Like, get out of the crate despite how much I hurt myself, chew up the couch, accidents, torn up windows, etc. Admittedly, I'm anxious and hyper aware of "the signs".

 

On Monday, I practiced going in and out of my bedroom and bathroom. Willis would willingly chill out in his crate, no problem. Didn't care where I went and may pop his head up, but not distressed. Tuesday, I went out twice. The first time I was gone for 15 minutes and the second time I was gone for 2 1/2 hours. He willingly went into his crate, and when I came home he was laying down in there and patiently waited for me to open the crate before launching himself out. I recorded him while I was gone. Some whining and minor barking, but was able to calm himself down.

 

Today, I had to leave for two meetings for work. Both times I left he did not want to go into the crate. The recording from the first time I left (I was gone for about 2 hours again), there was intermittent whining and barking. I haven't listened to the second recording, but I assume again that there was intermittent barking. I think listening to the recordings freaks me out more than I should be and I'm starting to wonder if it's a good idea for me to listen to them. Admittedly, I am a very anxious person. Side track aside, both times I came home today, he was lying down and looked as though I woke him up. He patiently (and quietly) will wait for me and then launches himself out of the crate.

 

I haven't implemented strict alone training because I knew that I had to leave twice this Wednesday. Also, I wanted to see how he would react to being alone. I haven't officially adopted him, and wanted to treat this like as if he was in another foster home. I 100% believe that he could be an only dog, however I'm unsure of how I should proceed with alone training since I'm 99.9999% sure that I'm going to adopt him.

 

When I'm home, he will willingly walk into the crate and snooze in there. Sometimes he will curl himself into a ball, other times he likes to stretch out (i.e. pop his head or leg out of the edge). I think he may have gotten a little scared of the crate in part because I bought a Kong crate with sliding doors. He shoots so quickly out of there that I don't have a chance to open it completely and he hits part of his back/butt on the crate :/ I also think that the crate with the door shut he is associating with me leaving. I have intermittently crated him when I was home, however he now begins to run out as soon as I begin to slide the door...which only makes it worse because he runs into it on his way out.

 

On a positive note, with a Kong, the TV/Radio on, and a DAP collar all he is doing is whining/barking in my absence. He is not destructive, will calm himself down, and seems to be sleeping when I arrive home. This is completely manageable. I'm just torn over baby gating him to a part of my apartment or trucking along with the crate. I want to be consistent with a method and a method that will aide him in alone training. He will need desensitization of the crate with the door closed in addition to alone training...however, since he is so good when he's in there I'm thinking he might be okay with having access to a part of the apartment. He might just need more room to stretch out his legs and get up and move around if he pleases. I've noticed that when I'm home he will walk in and out of the crate. He'll walk around, do a lap or two (looking for food/treats, little stinker), stretch out and then curl back up in the crate. So, I don't know...maybe if I ditch the crate he'll learn faster?

 

I'll be adding a DAP diffuser into the bx modification as well. Sorry if this is so long!

 

 

[Hubcitypam]

If possible maybe baby gate him in an area and leave the crate in there with the door open?

[Guest rarmstrong]

If possible maybe baby gate him in an area and leave the crate in there with the door open?

I could do that in my bedroom. That's really the only place that I can do it. The other area is my kitchen, but the opening is too wide for most baby gates. I know that there are extensions as an option, but I'd like to make a change tomorrow so I can get on top of this now.

 

I'm admittedly a bit nervous to leave him alone in my bedroom. So much furniture to destroy haha But he hasn't been destructive in his crate, so it may not be something that I need to be super concerned about.

[FiveRoooooers]

He may be picking up on your anxiety about putting him in the crate. When you ask him to go in it and you don't leave, everything about your body language is probably different from when you ask him to go in the crate and then you leave. See if you can be as indifferent about leaving as you are when you are home and ask Willis to crate.

[OwnedBySummer]

I wouldn't bother with the crate. It seems to be such a popular item nowadays but we sure never used crates in the past. I believe in them for medical purposes, of course, but I wouldn't want to use one otherwise. If you pup doesn't care for it and doesn't need it...

[greysmom]

If you are going to continue crating him, you need to stop him from bolting out when you open the door. Either stand in front of it or put something across the opening so he can't get out the door before it's fully open. Training a "wait" command would be helpful.

 

Because everyone said we should, we bought a large crate when we adopted our first greyhound in 2003. It stayed unopened, in the box, until we brought home our 11 week old puppy in December 2011. She only stayed in the crate at night for about 6 weeks, and now is only crated when we leave the house. She'll soon be mature enough to leave her out with the others without destroying the entire room. The point being, you can crate or you can not crate - it's really a personal decision. And your boy sounds totally workable whichever way you choose.

 

If you're worried about him being destructive, leave him baby gated in a dog proofed room where he has lots of comfy places to lie down and put his muzzle on him. He's use to wearing it so don't worry about that. I predict he'll be fine.

[brianamac]

If you're worried about him destroying things, try leaving him loose (or baby-gated) with his muzzle on for 10-20 mins. Like, leave the house and walk around the block. If there are no problems, try it again without a muzzle on.

If he is having SA problems, you'll likely see it with a 10-20 minute outing.

[robinw]

Don't crate him.

[3greytjoys]

A baby-gate + crate offers you excellent flexibility. The crate is also helpful for a new dog that is being housebroken. Many dogs love the safe, cave/den-like environment of their crate. This can be especially helpful for Greyhounds who've come from track life. Transitioning from a track into a new home is so different from anything they've ever experienced. A crate may be the only familiar feeling of security the hound has in a new home. Your boy sounds mellow and clearly appears to like having a crate (sans door scare). Since he had temporary difficulty re: crate door, you could feed him his meals inside the crate with the door left wide open (secure it open if needed).

Crate should = Willis' happy, safe place.

 

Some hounds who never see a crate at home (post adoption) have greater difficulty when they must be placed in a crate for veterinary hospital procedures (which can make their hospital experience more difficult). Some dogs need to go to boarding kennels, or a pet sitter's home (who may need to confine dog for safety reasons). If a hound goes on vacation with their owner to someone's home, the crate is a safe place to prevent dog from getting loose, or tearing up a (strange) house while people go out for dinner, etc. (These are not the best times to have to do crate re-training.)

 

I assume the crate is properly sized for Willis if he's a typical tall male Greyhound... A Greyhound should be able to stand up comfortably, turn around, and lie down flat comfortably inside a crate.

As mentioned, if you're able to block the crate door with your body and teach him "wait" until you get the door open, he should be able to learn to exit smoothly. If he's bursting out because he needs to eliminate, ensure he has ample opportunities to eliminate before being left alone.

(We take new hounds outside every couple hours during the daytime for their first couple days, extending to 3 hours the next several days, gradually increasing up to 4 hours during day.)

 

BTW, a little whining (or barking) when left alone in the early days is very common with new arrivals (many breeds, any ages). Sounds like you know to wait for any moment of silence before reacting to Willis (to avoid rewarding with your attention for whining). Keep doing brief alone training while you are home, and walk outside the apartment for a few minutes at a time. Multiple brief daily separations are helpful. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[a_daerr]

A baby-gate + crate offers you excellent flexibility.

 

I agree. I also saw a setup like this with a crate + ex-pen and thought it was genuis.

 

[Guest BiggiesOwner]

We've been crating Biggie the two days a week I need to work from the office for about 3 months now (with a Kong toy to keep him buys) - and he always seemed calm and happy. I tried upgrading him to a baby gate +open door crate in my bedroom yesterday.....and came home to the baby gate knocked down, a mess on the rug, and a flurry of wood chips everywhere from Biggie's attempts to dislodge the baby gate - and where did I find my Biggie? Sitting contentedly in his crate with the door wide open! I don't think he even left my bedroom - just freaked out about the baby gate being there - destroyed it and went back to sleep in his crate. There was no evidence he went anywhere else in the house or was the least bit destructive.

 

Every dog is different - but I will definitely tossing the baby gate in the trash - Biggie seems to prefer the security of his crate.

[Guest rarmstrong]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. We have been working on alone training today and I think it's going pretty well. I have been feeding him in his crate since I've had him, so I continued that. Also, last night I had him sleep in his crate, which meant I spent a night out on the couch so we were in the same room

 

After our hour and a half walk this morning, I intermittently crated Willis throughout the morning until about 12 with intermittent treats to reinforce calmly laying in the crate with the door closed. It was nice because I got to do some preference assessment of different foods. He seems to like apples and really love cooked eggs.

 

We got lots of practice on the walk with 'wait' and generalized that to opening his crate. He's such a cutie. He looks up at me with those eyes as if to say, "I promise I'm waiting! Promise promise". He has tried to bolt twice. I blocked it, closed the crate and repeated it. After the second correction, he hasn't bolted out since.

 

I took him out again for a bathroom break around 12:30, and began leaving the house. So far so good. I'm going to keep this out throughout the day. I have a couple errands to run, so I think he will be sick of this by the end of the night.

 

With more and more practice (and no sense if urgency to go anywhere/be somewhere on time. Yay vacations from work. Who knew they were so good!), I am becoming less anxious with leaving. Of course I am a little anxious as I pretend to walk around the block of drive around my neighborhood, but getting him into the crate and leaving I feel reasonably confident.

 

With more practice, both Willis and I will become less anxious and this all with become a breeze. I think this guy is going to to wonders for my general anxiety. Can't wait to see what else is to come!

[Guest ayimera]

I honestly think this doesn't sound out of the ordinary for a new grey and that you're taking the right steps in training wait, etc. Our girl likes to go in her crate (after a week of being stubborn about it) after she realized she gets a BIG treat. However, she does tend to whine after a few minutes, even with a Kong. I don't think she whines for very long, but I haven't recorded her at all, so now I'm curious. Whenever I come home she is either laying down and looking bored, or super excited because she's been in there for awhile (work day) and has to peeee. She used to push her way out, but has gotten better about waiting. We left her alone once without a crate and she ended up peeing on the carpet in the basement, and with the cats I don't really trust her 100%. So as someone suggested above, I think it really depends on the dog -- you'll get a feel for what's best with a little time! Sounds like you're already making progress

[greytpups]

Is there a particular reason you want to crate Willis? I know lots of people say they should be comfortable in a crate so that if they have to go in a crate, they'll be ok. Ben has been with us almost 9 years and has never needed to be in a crate.

 

Willis doesn't seem to be destructive or a marker. I'd suggest leaving the crate up with the door open and see if he goes in the crate on his own or sleeps on his pillow. It sounds like he doesn't need to be crated.

[Guest rarmstrong]

Is there a particular reason you want to crate Willis? I know lots of people say they should be comfortable in a crate so that if they have to go in a crate, they'll be ok. Ben has been with us almost 9 years and has never needed to be in a crate.

 

Willis doesn't seem to be destructive or a marker. I'd suggest leaving the crate up with the door open and see if he goes in the crate on his own or sleeps on his pillow. It sounds like he doesn't need to be crated.

He seems to see it as his safe place, so I want to keep trying until he's had more time to adjust. He is doing so well, and I don't want to change something before he's ready. However, in a couple weeks, I doubt I'll be leaving him in the crate with the door closed.

[Guest rarmstrong]

I honestly think this doesn't sound out of the ordinary for a new grey and that you're taking the right steps in training wait, etc. Our girl likes to go in her crate (after a week of being stubborn about it) after she realized she gets a BIG treat. However, she does tend to whine after a few minutes, even with a Kong. I don't think she whines for very long, but I haven't recorded her at all, so now I'm curious. Whenever I come home she is either laying down and looking bored, or super excited because she's been in there for awhile (work day) and has to peeee. She used to push her way out, but has gotten better about waiting. We left her alone once without a crate and she ended up peeing on the carpet in the basement, and with the cats I don't really trust her 100%. So as someone suggested above, I think it really depends on the dog -- you'll get a feel for what's best with a little time! Sounds like you're already making progress

That sounds like Willis! He is being a ROCKSTAR with house training. Still no accident since I got him. But I do know that if I'm gone for about 3 hrs (he hasn't be left longer than 3 1/2) , he is whining and shooting out not because he's scared but because he has to pee.

 

I'm gonna keep working on three hours and build it up to 5 hrs, since that will be the what my work schedule will be like. Depending on how he does, I bet in a month or so he will be good to go!

If you are going to continue crating him, you need to stop him from bolting out when you open the door. Either stand in front of it or put something across the opening so he can't get out the door before it's fully open. Training a "wait" command would be helpful.

 

Because everyone said we should, we bought a large crate when we adopted our first greyhound in 2003. It stayed unopened, in the box, until we brought home our 11 week old puppy in December 2011. She only stayed in the crate at night for about 6 weeks, and now is only crated when we leave the house. She'll soon be mature enough to leave her out with the others without destroying the entire room. The point being, you can crate or you can not crate - it's really a personal decision. And your boy sounds totally workable whichever way you choose.

 

If you're worried about him being destructive, leave him baby gated in a dog proofed room where he has lots of comfy places to lie down and put his muzzle on him. He's use to wearing it so don't worry about that. I predict he'll be fine.

Thank you for the advice! We worked on wait and he seems to be responding to it (albeit he doesn't have to pee). I block attempts to rush out and then reteach it. I only have bad to do that 3-4 times. I think I will try baby gating once he seems like he can hold it a little longer