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A Lack Of Brotherly Love


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Fred and Henry are not getting along at all. Fred came to me as a retired racer exactly one year ago, and at that time I already had Kimba, also a retired racer; they are both 6 years old. They got along fine, no lovey dovey stuff or cuddling, but no animosity, either. 6 months ago Henry the AKC Hound came to stay. He is a rather boisterous, puppyish guy, quite large, too, but not at all aggressive. I noticed that Fred resented Henry's rough jumping when I came home at night, and also the fact that Henry immediately decided that my bed was the right place for him to sleep, too; Fred and Kimba had never thought of doing that.

 

As time went on, I noticed that Fred would growl at Henry in the minivan, and also sometimes at home. Then, two or three weeks ago, I found a wound (very small) on Henry's ribs, and I thought it likely that Fred had put it there, but I didn't actually know that he had done it. But yesterday afternoon, they got into a real dogfight in the yard, and later I found a nip on Henry's butt, not serious, but still not a good thing. For immediate action, both Fred and Henry will now wear their muzzles when they go out in the yard. But my concern is, first of all, that Fred is unhappy, second that Henry is frightened of Fred, and most of all that they spend much of the day inside, unsupervised. What if they had a real dogfight in the house when no one was there, and someone was badly hurt? I don't want to have to muzzle them all day long, but I am thinking that is the wisest thing to do.

 

Any advice? I would be most grateful.

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Loving Kimba & Fred, missing Booker & Polly, first greyhounds, never forgotten.
"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights.
That is the way of a whole human being."
Abraham Lincoln

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Henry doesn't understand "Greyhound" is my guess, having been raised like any other dog. Retired racers, even ones who flunked out early, live a TOTALLY different life and know how to get along with their own kind very well. No doubt Henry is unable to read the signals the others are sending out due to his different upbringing.

 

Many people with multiples keep them muzzled during the day. If you don't want to do that, I'd keep Henry separated from the other two since they get along just fine.


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Susan,  Hamish,  Mister Bigglesworth and Nikita Stanislav. Missing Ming, George, and Buck

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I muzzle my dogs when I am not at home, when they are romping in the yard and when they are in the car. This current pack do all get along, but I have not always had such harmony. Better safe than sorry. I also walk them a lot together, which seems to help smooth things out.

 

I am sorry that you are going through this. It is stressful for everyone.

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Cindy with Miss Fancypants, Paris Bueller, Zeke, and Angus 
Dante (Dg's Boyd), Zoe (In a While), Brady (Devilish Effect), Goose (BG Shotgun), Maverick (BG ShoMe), Maggie (All Trades Jax), Sherman (LNB Herman Bad) and Indy (BYB whippet) forever in my heart
The flame that burns the brightest, burns the fastest and leaves the biggest shadow

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Personally I would muzzle all three until they figure out how to live peacefully together and I would definitely muzzle all 3 outside. Just because you don't think one will not attack doesn't mean he won't when outside running around. Mine have all lived together very well for several years but I still muzzle them when they are outside because all it takes is for someone to bump into someone else and all bets are off. You could try a crate. Fred may actually prefer to be crated during the day rather than be out with Henry. Until Henry calms down a bit I would view the muzzle as safety equipment to keep everyone safe.

Judy, mom to Darth Vader, Bandita, And Angel

Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey, Gizmo, Do Bee

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Sounds like muzzling at home when they are alone is the general opinion. Poor doggies. And Kimba too, who is gentleness personified? My house has an open floor plan, so an x pen or or baby gate will not really work. Muzzling in the yard, in the minivan, and when they are home alone. What a pity. I agree with Susan; Henry doesn't have the background that retired racers have, and I bet he is committing faux pas all day long.

Edited by Booker_Aye

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Loving Kimba & Fred, missing Booker & Polly, first greyhounds, never forgotten.
"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights.
That is the way of a whole human being."
Abraham Lincoln

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Mine don't mind the muzzles. At this point, it is part of their routine. The muzzle goes on and it means that I am not going to be around for a while. They always get a cookie before it slides on. If the muzzle goes on while they are leashed, they know it's time for a car ride and they get all excited and goofy. So, in that scenario, they associate the muzzle with a good thing. Frankly, me being gone so they can sleep wherever they want and without interruption and can tear up my nicely made bed is a good thing in their minds, too!

 

I hope all settles down for you!

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Cindy with Miss Fancypants, Paris Bueller, Zeke, and Angus 
Dante (Dg's Boyd), Zoe (In a While), Brady (Devilish Effect), Goose (BG Shotgun), Maverick (BG ShoMe), Maggie (All Trades Jax), Sherman (LNB Herman Bad) and Indy (BYB whippet) forever in my heart
The flame that burns the brightest, burns the fastest and leaves the biggest shadow

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Started smearing a bit of peanut butter on the inside of Rudy's muzzle when he showed reluctance to have it put on, and now he's pretty eager about it, he shoves his own head into it when I hold it out even when there is no PB.

 

I suspect things may level out as Henry matures more too. When I adopted my lab mix as a puppy, my oldest girl did great with her as a baby, but as my lab mix pup got around 9 months to a year old there began to be more spats and discord. By the time she reached around 2-3, they seemed to be back in harmony again and have generally had a very amiable relationship since then. I hope it will be the same case with your guys.

Edited by k9soul
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If you muzzle one, you have to muzzle all. No exceptions.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Batmom, why would I have to muzzle Kimba, too? She is extremely gentle.

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Loving Kimba & Fred, missing Booker & Polly, first greyhounds, never forgotten.
"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights.
That is the way of a whole human being."
Abraham Lincoln

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The one with the teeth always wins - this is why you muzzle all three. If the other two muzzled greys started fighting, you really don't know how Kimba would react. If he jumps in - without a muzzle - or even if he just gets jostled and snaps in self-defense, he can cause a lot of damage.

 

I suspect Fred simply has a low tolerance for puppies and puppy-like playing, which is rough and out-of-control - and puppy-like behavior can last up to 4 years old with greyhounds. It can take them awhile to fully mature, and not having the schooling and discipline of racing will extend this period. When we brought Lilly home at 11 weeks old, we had an 11 yr old, an 7 yr old, a 6 yr old, and a 4 yr old. The older dogs wanted really nothing to do with her until she calmed down considerably, or she was unconscious! Fortunately, the 4 year old took over playing duties and the others got off pretty scott free. You may need to take over some tire-out-Henry duty for the time being to take some pressure of the older dogs.

Chris - Mom to: Lilly, Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

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Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom

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Do you know Henry's registered name? And is there any chance he was registered outside the U.S.? Like in Sweden?

Edited by greyhead
Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13).

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The one with the teeth always wins - this is why you muzzle all three. If the other two muzzled greys started fighting, you really don't know how Kimba would react. If he jumps in - without a muzzle - or even if he just gets jostled and snaps in self-defense, he can cause a lot of damage.

 

 

Exactly so.

 

When all heck breaks out ... all heck breaks out, and the most predictable dog can do the most unpredictable things. I have it on good authority that just a dab of peanutbutter greatly improves a muzzle and turns it into a party hat! :)

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Guest PhillyPups

I live with 6 in harmony. They are spoiled, they are loved, BUT contrary to popular belief they are first and foremost DOGS not my birth children and therefore think as dogs. :P

 

As I look around me while typing this, my 2 12 year old broodies are sleeping on my right their heads touching, one of my boys is sleeping with his head on the other boy's butt, one is on a chair asleep and one on the loveseat asleep. HOWEVER, should a fight break-out between 2 of them, DOG PACK MENTALITY takes over this peaceful setting.

 

That said, I muzzle ALL when I leave anytime, even my "wild-child" who is not only muzzled but baby-gated into the kitchen and laundry room. Should someone come to the baby-gate and get her riled up, without her muzzle she could bite them better, and the muzzled one would be defenseless. Mine are all muzzled in the yard and whenever I take more than one in the van.

 

I think of muzzles like I do a seatbelt, a safety tool. I do not plan on getting into an accident when I get into my van, but I do buckle up anyway, just in case. Mine all come to me when I get the muzzles out and lift their heads for me to put them on.

 

The scariest thing I have ever seen have been dog fights (knock on wood none of them have been between mine or in my home) it is quite an eyeopener as to what our dogs can do when they are in full blown dog fight pack mentality.

 

Personally, no matter how well they got along, I would still muzzle them all whenever I leave the home.

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I have a good reason for trying to track down Henry's lineage, even though it may seem frivolous. There was a very similar AKC-type dog out here, adopted around the same time as Henry and sounding very much like Henry (size, youth, behavior). He's at the Rainbow Bridge now. It could be useful to know if they were related.

 

Meanwhile, yes, please do muzzle everybody when they're going to be alone.

Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13).

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Henry is "Mariki's Black Swan." His dad is Southwestern Lord Henry, and his mom, Lorricbrooke Graceful. She is Canadian born, but both parents are in the USA, where my Henry was born on March 13, 2009. As far as I know, he doesn't have any Swedish connection. How sad for a 4 year old to be at the Bridge. Why did you want to know?

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Loving Kimba & Fred, missing Booker & Polly, first greyhounds, never forgotten.
"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights.
That is the way of a whole human being."
Abraham Lincoln

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Let me get back to you on that after I see if there's a connection or not. The other dog was in the U.S. but registered through the Swedish Kennel Klubben. Talk to you soon!

 

ETA: Okay, apparently there's no relation, so it doesn't matter what I was thinking! But the other dog died suddenly, I think from a massive seizure, with no known history of medical issues. Given Henry's unexplained panting/etc., I wondered if there's some underlying physical problem that other dogs sense. But it's probably just his exuberance that is getting on Fred's last nerve! Knowing how scary this must be, I thought it worthwhile to follow up on that lead. But I'm glad there's no connection!

Edited by greyhead
Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13).

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I just had an e mail exchange with my dogwalker, Tara, about muzzling the dogs when they are in the house alone. She said that today Fred was cranky with Henry and Miss Kimba when she arrived. Her arrival is always a reason for great joy throughout the household -- they all love her. It may just be jealousy, but I am starting to wonder if Fred might have an underlying condition that is predisposing him to grumpiness. I remember when my Dalmatian was diagnosed with stomach cancer (back in 1979) he went through a very grumpy phase before we realized how ill he was; in retrospect, I realized that he was grumpy because he was in pain. I am wondering if something is hurting my Fred. Guess it's time to make another major payment to the vet.

bth_FredandKimbaGreytalksignature1.jpg?t

Loving Kimba & Fred, missing Booker & Polly, first greyhounds, never forgotten.
"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights.
That is the way of a whole human being."
Abraham Lincoln

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I hope Fred is ok. I had my daughter's lurcher for the weekend, who is a cute, 2-3 year old and very puppy-ish in a lot of his behaviors. Goose, who is pretty meek, really had his nose out of joint with Finn being in his home. (Such those long noses! :) ) Anyway, I know he wasn't in pain but he was not happy sharing my time and attention with yet another dog. We did A LOT of walking over the weekend and by the time Finn left, Goose was much calmer and much less snarky.

 

Hopefully, Fred is just out of whack with having another 4 legged sibling.

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Cindy with Miss Fancypants, Paris Bueller, Zeke, and Angus 
Dante (Dg's Boyd), Zoe (In a While), Brady (Devilish Effect), Goose (BG Shotgun), Maverick (BG ShoMe), Maggie (All Trades Jax), Sherman (LNB Herman Bad) and Indy (BYB whippet) forever in my heart
The flame that burns the brightest, burns the fastest and leaves the biggest shadow

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How did Goose reveal his disgruntledness about his visitor? Did he growl at Finn? Fred is most likely to act out when Henry is jumping around wildly, like when I get home, or on the deck after running around in the yard.

bth_FredandKimbaGreytalksignature1.jpg?t

Loving Kimba & Fred, missing Booker & Polly, first greyhounds, never forgotten.
"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights.
That is the way of a whole human being."
Abraham Lincoln

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Goose growled at Finn for every.single.minor transgression he could think of. He doesn't snap, but will emit a sharp short bark. Walked too close to the couch (Goose is ALWAYS lying on the couch), sat too close to him, looked at him "funny." Goose is a really insecure dog and can be a brat. He tried to mount Finn the first time they met. Finn, thankfully, took most of it in stride (except the mounting and he reacted appropriately) and either ignored Goose (which my others do regularly when he has a stick up his behind) or distanced himself. I let them work it out somewhat, but also walked them together and pet them at the same time in order for Goose to understand that Finn will be a periodic member of the family and that he needs to get over himself. That is the best way to handle Goose.

 

If he gets really obnoxious about something - usually not wanting to share the couch, he unceremoniously gets banned from the couch or bed and he goes a short distance away and sulks. He really is a 4 year old child inside a greyhound body.

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Cindy with Miss Fancypants, Paris Bueller, Zeke, and Angus 
Dante (Dg's Boyd), Zoe (In a While), Brady (Devilish Effect), Goose (BG Shotgun), Maverick (BG ShoMe), Maggie (All Trades Jax), Sherman (LNB Herman Bad) and Indy (BYB whippet) forever in my heart
The flame that burns the brightest, burns the fastest and leaves the biggest shadow

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