Is Raw Ok If They Have Kidney Issues ?

[Busderpuddle]

I go back and forth on trying to decide if I want to switch Ruby to a raw diet. She LOVES the times when she gets the raw meal and I know she would be a better eater if I did it. She gets kibble twice a day now and usually will leave one meal untouched, and she is slowly losing weight. Down to 56 lbs from 62 when we got her.

She has had a slightly elevated kidney function ever since we got her 4 years ago and I am wondering if an all raw diet would be a problem ? Would all the protein make it worse ? I know with humans, they need to watch their protein intake if they have kidney disease.

[Guest Rhea]

Well, being in charge of what her meal is, might make it easier to manage the protein. I believe I saw another member mention that he/she does do raw feeding for her grey with renal problems because there isn't a Rx food out there that has a low enough protein level. I can't find it at the moment, but I imagine you could consult with your vet about how to compose a raw diet for Ruby.

[Remolacha]

Actually, more recent thinking, by some vets anyway, is good quality lean protein is beneficial for dogs (and cats) with kidney problems. Monitoring potassium(? I think, it's been awhile) levels and fat content are more important. The key, of course, is "good quality" and "lean".

[GreyTzu]

Ask your Vet.

[Guest sirsmom]

I would definitely contact the vet and see what her values are. In some cases you'll want to limit phosphorus but in other more serious cases it is protein and phosphorus.

[Batmom]

For the most part, you can't limit phosphorus adequately without limiting protein.

 

It's become popular to say that protein doesn't matter, but that isn't true. In very early stage kidney disease, it usually isn't necessary to limit protein. As the disease progresses, it is necessary. Protein, raw or cooked, produces nitrogenous waste -- basically, poison -- and diseased kidneys can't remove that waste from the blood.

 

A raw *meat* diet won't be low protein. Feeding raw grain/vegetable matter wouldn't be useful -- dogs' digestive system doesn't break down cellulose, so those items need to be at least well pulverized and preferably cooked.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Batmom

[MaryJane]

If you feed more protein then the kidneys can process, the protein ends up being excreted through the filtering mechanism of the kidneys and this further damages the kidneys. As the kidneys get more and more stressed, the kidneys will not be able to remove the "waste"products from the blood.

 

Simple solution, feed better protein but, less of it. My Larry has been on a reduced protein diet for years and he gets a home-made (not raw) diet of rice, hamburger, and veggies - it has worked for him so far.

[racindog]

Nobody can decide but you. Study up on it and then decide. I personally believe that raw green tripe is an excellent food for kidney dogs. It has the perfect Ca/P ratio and is relatively low in P. The muscle and organ meat has a good bit more P in it and I personally wouldn't reguklarly feed it to a kidney dog even with added Ca. However I have had excellent success with raw green tripe. My first broodie Aggie had serious kidney disease and lived to be 14 1/2 on raw green tripe primarily with some Holistic Blendz (Solid Gold) for variety. She is still the only greyhound to repeat as the Queen and oldest hound at the Bluegrass Festival for 2 years in a row and it was NOT kidney disease that took her even then. I credit the tripe with keeping her so good for so long. I'm seeing similar positive results with Bobber whose numbers have been holding their own and not getting worse for a year now. I will say it might not do any good to ask the vet. I personally know of 2 vets that didn't have a clue what raw green tripe was much less its nutritional profile. Of course there was k/d on the shelf-they knew about that. Hills has spent good money to insure that lol.

Edited July 26, 2013 by racindog

[RedHead]

I have never dealt with this but am on a lot of food groups and know a lot of people do feed raw to dogs with kidney problems and have had success (remember, early stage kidney disease is different from late stage...protein becomes more of a problem in late stage).

 

A couple of suggestions:

 

K9 Kidney Group

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KidneyDiet/

 

For books I would suggest Monica Segal. She is a canine nutritionist specializing in diets for health problems (all kinds, raw and cooked or combined) and regularly works through the vet college here to analyze all of her diets and keep up on the latest research. Her recipes are not the cheapest or easiest to follow, but she has good and up to date info. Her book "Optimal Nutrition" has recipe and diet plans for a variety of health problems.

http://www.monicasegal.com/Optimal_Nutrition_Raw_And_Cooked_Canine_Diets.html

 

So yes, you can do homemade diets (raw or cooked depending) and many dogs do great on them, but you do have to do your research to ensure you're helping not harming.

 

 

[Busderpuddle]

Thank you for all the info. I will say my vet is not too keen on a raw diet so he is not going to be a lot of help. Will check out the resources that have been shared.

[Guest Celestrina]

Keep a close eye on any test results. As others have said, protein levels matter more as the disease progresses and you want to make any dietary changes ASAP.

[Guest iconsmum]

Nobody can decide but you. Study up on it and then decide. I personally believe that raw green tripe is an excellent food for kidney dogs. It has the perfect Ca/P ratio and is relatively low in P. The muscle and organ meat has a good bit more P in it and I personally wouldn't reguklarly feed it to a kidney dog even with added Ca. However I have had excellent success with raw green tripe. My first broodie Aggie had serious kidney disease and lived to be 14 1/2 on raw green tripe primarily with some Holistic Blendz (Solid Gold) for variety. She is still the only greyhound to repeat as the Queen and oldest hound at the Bluegrass Festival for 2 years in a row and it was NOT kidney disease that took her even then. I credit the tripe with keeping her so good for so long. I'm seeing similar positive results with Bobber whose numbers have been holding their own and not getting worse for a year now. I will say it might not do any good to ask the vet. I personally know of 2 vets that didn't have a clue what raw green tripe was much less its nutritional profile. Of course there was k/d on the shelf-they knew about that. Hills has spent good money to insure that lol.

 

 

 

Just adding that I agree with this and the part about the vets. check the USFDA site for protein levels in specific meats if you feed raw. They're less than you might assume, at least so I found.

[duncan41]

Most Vets don't have but rudimentary knowledge of animal nutrition which was most likely presented by one of the "big box" dog food companies, consequently they will defer to those big box food companies when it comes to any dx requiring food modification.

 

There are various dx of "kidney disease" as well as various stages in the disease process. No one diet will fit all cases. If you are not inclined to read Monica Segal's book and figure it out yourself, she or Dr. Rebecca Remillard will formulate a custom diet for a fee. The University of TN also offers a similar service. I know Monica Segal does include raw in her recipes.

[Guest WhiteWave]

There is a lot of good info here: http://dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html

 

My senior dog has congestive heart failure and his kidneys are being affected from the amount of diuretics he is taking. He eats a combo of homemade and raw. He gets raw one meal and rice/hamburger/veggie mixture the next. Sometimes I make chicken and rice instead of hamburger. He also gets Bil Jac frozen. He quite eating kibble almost altogether. For now I'm happy is he just eats anything.

 

I think you could do a modified raw diet with some homecooked since you have to cook rice/pasta.