Poop, Poop, And More Poop!

[Batmom]

You can add a half cup of W/D to whatever else the dog is getting, and that can be helpful.

 

It can take some trial and error to find the right food for an individual dog. I tend to make a spreadsheet and list out the ingredients so I can figure out what's worth trying next. Sometimes that's a help, and sometimes not so much. I will say, for pups here, not too high in fat, ANIMAL fat instead of vegetable oils, and beet pulp seem to contribute to better stool quality. A couple of the foods other than IAMS and Purina ONE that have worked for individual dogs here include Solid Gold Millennia Beef and Pinnacle Duck. Taste of the Wild with venison wasn't bad but I found a quality problem with the food and stopped using it.

[Guest AngelPup]

My experience with the higher fiber/low fat diets (typically vet-prescribed) is they do a pretty good job firming up stools.....although some increase the amount of stool (W/D, for example), so you may have to switch around to find the right one. Surprisingly, my dogs always loved the taste.....they were very happy with Royal Canin Prescription gastrointestinal/low fat....LOVED the kibble although not too keen on the canned. The Royal Canin did not increase their stool volume or frequency.

 

Thanks chardae. Do you NEED to go through the vet to get low fat/high fiber kibble? If we do try this next, I was hoping to find a dog food that I can buy at a local store, as it would most likely be much less expensive.

You can add a half cup of W/D to whatever else the dog is getting, and that can be helpful.

 

It can take some trial and error to find the right food for an individual dog. I tend to make a spreadsheet and list out the ingredients so I can figure out what's worth trying next. Sometimes that's a help, and sometimes not so much. I will say, for pups here, not too high in fat, ANIMAL fat instead of vegetable oils, and beet pulp seem to contribute to better stool quality. A couple of the foods other than IAMS and Purina ONE that have worked for individual dogs here include Solid Gold Millennia Beef and Pinnacle Duck. Taste of the Wild with venison wasn't bad but I found a quality problem with the food and stopped using it.

 

Thanks for the suggestions Batmom! My head always spins when I start comparing all the different dog foods... I'm not looking forward to the food trials and hope it's not long before we can find something that works (and won't break the bank)!

[Guest chardae]

Well, you are supposed to get these foods (W/D, Royal Canin Veterinary, Iams Veterinary) from a vet, but there are some online sources....petflow.com comes to mind for the Royal Canin Veterinary diets.

 

I would just get a small bag from the vet for a start.....

[Guest AngelPup]

Well, you are supposed to get these foods (W/D, Royal Canin Veterinary, Iams Veterinary) from a vet, but there are some online sources....petflow.com comes to mind for the Royal Canin Veterinary diets.

 

I would just get a small bag from the vet for a start.....

 

Ok, great. Thanks for all your help and suggestions! I'm going to call the vet again today to give her an update and see what she recommends for a high fiber, low fat kibble OR maybe I can just add some pumpkin to what I'm giving him to see if that helps. I was comparing the fiber of rice and pasta and it seems like pasta has a tad more fiber than rice, but not much more. Oatmeal has twice as much fiber as pasta and the same amount of fiber as pumpkin, so I'm wondering if I should just try that instead of pasta. Although I'd MUCH rather just find a kibble that works for him--the bland diet thing is getting VERY old.

[a_daerr]

I also agree that at this point, a prescription food is a good place to start. If you're going to go that route, try Hill's I/D. It's an overall GI health food. It might be better than scouring the pet store trying to find low-fat, high-fiber, grain free, no rice, and the fifty million different things his diarrhea could be attributed to. I know several people from my training class that started I/D as a last resort and found it to be the only thing that worked. It's definitely more pricey, but if his issues really are a food problem, you should see a noticeable difference right away.

 

Sorry you're still struggling with this.

[Guest AngelPup]

I also agree that at this point, a prescription food is a good place to start. If you're going to go that route, try Hill's I/D. It's an overall GI health food. It might be better than scouring the pet store trying to find low-fat, high-fiber, grain free, no rice, and the fifty million different things his diarrhea could be attributed to. I know several people from my training class that started I/D as a last resort and found it to be the only thing that worked. It's definitely more pricey, but if his issues really are a food problem, you should see a noticeable difference right away.

 

Sorry you're still struggling with this.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, a_daerr. I have to agree with you and laughed when I read the scouring the pet store sentence--it's SO true! At this point, I would really just like to find something that will help get rid of the diarrhea! It's SO very frustrating to try so many different things that work for only a day or two...

[tbhounds]

Just saw the post reccomending I/D. In general we use I/D for upper GI issues (vomiting) and W/D for lower GI issues (colon/diarrhea). Of course nothing is written in stone just an idea of general use.

[Guest OPointyDog]

What finally worked for us is Purina DCO. Beet pulp is the 2nd ingredient. I cringe when I see the ingredient list, but for us, it worked!!

[Guest chardae]

Angel Pup,

 

I agree with tbhounds, it's always been W/D prescribed for us vs. I/D for diarrhea, soft stool problems with my dogs ....I have had a couple of greys with serious intestinal/colon-related problems, the veterinary diets are the way to go at the beginning. I've kept some on hand to feed my dogs when they just have a temporary diarrhea problem, helps calm everything down. Have heard good things about Purina DCO.

 

Merrie was diagnosed with lymphangiectasia and she had to be fed Royal Canin Veterinary Gastrointestinal/Low Fat. We took her to a veterinary internal medicine specialist, and one thing they said was you have to be careful with pumpkin, sometimes it can go either way and cause more problems......well, nothing's ever easy, is it? Good luck!

[Guest AngelPup]

Just saw the post reccomending I/D. In general we use I/D for upper GI issues (vomiting) and W/D for lower GI issues (colon/diarrhea). Of course nothing is written in stone just an idea of general use.

 

Thanks bthounds. All this talk about the different kinds of food and prescription diets, etc. is mind boggling. I did some research on the different prescription diets and can't believe the ingredients (mostly byproducts and fillers)! I'm still trying to figure out WHY on earth they are so darn expensive! Whatever--there is just too much stuff in this world that doesn't make sense.

What finally worked for us is Purina DCO. Beet pulp is the 2nd ingredient. I cringe when I see the ingredient list, but for us, it worked!!

 

Seriously--it if works, it works! Beet pulp must the magic ingredient!

[Guest AngelPup]

Angel Pup,

 

I agree with tbhounds, it's always been W/D prescribed for us vs. I/D for diarrhea, soft stool problems with my dogs ....I have had a couple of greys with serious intestinal/colon-related problems, the veterinary diets are the way to go at the beginning. I've kept some on hand to feed my dogs when they just have a temporary diarrhea problem, helps calm everything down. Have heard good things about Purina DCO.

 

Merrie was diagnosed with lymphangiectasia and she had to be fed Royal Canin Veterinary Gastrointestinal/Low Fat. We took her to a veterinary internal medicine specialist, and one thing they said was you have to be careful with pumpkin, sometimes it can go either way and cause more problems......well, nothing's ever easy, is it? Good luck!

 

Thanks chardae--this is DEFINITELY not easy! I had no idea I'd still be working on diarrhea issues two months after adopting Brady. Since I had pumpkin on hand anyway, I put about a 1/4 can in his food tonight. I guess it could make things worse, but could also make things better?! Figured it was worth a shot and the adoption agency suggested I try that too. We'll see.

[Guest AngelPup]

So I spoke with the vet today. She said it was completely up to me what we try next and agreed that I could try transitioning to kibble since the bland diet doesn't seem to be helping anyway.

 

She said I could try a prescription diet. If it works--great. But then I'm stuck feeding a very high cost food for the rest of his life and not really finding out what is causing his issues (and potentially curing it for good). She suggested that I try the kibbles that the adoption agency suggested first (Purina ONE or Iams green bag) or the food I had already purchased (4Health Salmon and Potato). She said a high fiber food will either help or make things worse--she's seen it go both ways.

 

The other alternatives, in no particular order are:

• To send bloodwork to a lab in Texas to test for pancreatic enzyme deficiency. He certainly has most of the symptoms. http://www.epi4dogs.com/epiinsnapshots.htm
• Send a stool sample to the same lab to test for Cryptosomethingorother and Giardia (she doesn't think he has Giardia, so this is really just for the Cryptothingy).
• Put him under and do a rectal exam to test for polyps, white blood cells, and whatever else she can find with that test....

And if THOSE tests don't come up with anything, then there are other, more intrusive (and expensive) tests, but I don't even want to think about those right now.

 

She said she would send an update to the other vet that I'm getting a second opinion from, so she has all the latest information. I told her that I would think about everything and decide what I'm going to do after speaking with the other vet. I was afraid that she would be offended that I'm getting another opinion, but she was perfectly fine with it. So, we'll see on Thursday what the other vet suggests and take it from there.

[a_daerr]

Wow, what a hard decision. The one thing I wanted to add is that parasite infestations, when severe, can do permanent damage to the intestinal wall. If he had long-term, reoccurring hooks at the track, the damage may already be done. In that case, there really isn't a cure and the prescription food might be your only choice. For some reason though, I thought you said you'd already tried the green bag. If not, that's certainly worth a shot first. That's the only food that cleared up soft stools in my guys... But they never were at the severity you're dealing with.

[Guest AngelPup]

Wow, what a hard decision. The one thing I wanted to add is that parasite infestations, when severe, can do permanent damage to the intestinal wall. If he had long-term, reoccurring hooks at the track, the damage may already be done. In that case, there really isn't a cure and the prescription food might be your only choice. For some reason though, I thought you said you'd already tried the green bag. If not, that's certainly worth a shot first. That's the only food that cleared up soft stools in my guys... But they never were at the severity you're dealing with.

 

SO hard! The vet did say that hookworms can do a lot of damage to the intestines and God only knows how long he's had them, so it could certainly be the fact that his intestines are all scarred up and can't function as they should. Or maybe they just need a bit more time to heal--haven't a clue.

 

I would have tried the green bag, but didn't think it was a food issue until recently. I think I'll pick up a small bag on my way home and start transitioning to that tonight. It's worth a shot and has GOT to be better than being on that bland diet indefinitely...

 

It's probably WAY too soon for the pumpkin to make a lasting improvement, but his stool was much better this morning--very small and well formed. A beautiful orange poop. Never in my wildest imagination would I ever have thought I'd be so very happy to see a small orange poop.... I've decided to just revel in that while it lasts....

[Batmom]

 

She said I could try a prescription diet. If it works--great. But then I'm stuck feeding a very high cost food for the rest of his life and not really finding out what is causing his issues (and potentially curing it for good).

 

That makes no sense. I've fed dogs prescription diets when sensible and transitioned to non-prescription probably a hundred times over the years. The only time you'd need to continue feeding a prescription diet is if you have a dog who needs to have hydrolyzed (preprocessed) protein, and that is extremely unlikely. There are a few other cases when you'd need to feed a specially formulated diet @ forever, but those could be home-prepared and involve specific diseases that your dog has no signs of.

 

Also, if the dog has a food intolerance (and sometimes an allergy, which is different), you can test until you're blue in the face and you will find precisely nothing of use.

BTW, it isn't uncommon to have to try 3-4 different foods to find one that agrees with an individual dog.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Batmom

[Guest RMarie]

I agree with Batmom. James came to us on Rx food. After realizing it wasn't helping, we transitioned to something else. We tried several types of food and finally settled on Iams green bag, thanks to GT!

 

Good luck!!!

[Guest chardae]

Good idea to start with the Iams green bag.....

 

If, and it's a big if, your grey has a intestinal/digestive disorder that requires long term food management, you may not have to stick with prescription food forever. Batmom is right, you may be able to transition after awhile, unless there is a condition like Merrie had, where she had to have a diet of less than 5% fat.....just no commerical food available that would meet that low fat requirement, and we researched every food possible. In a case like that, you can always go to a home prepared diet....check out balanceit.com; it might be more work but less expensive. We did do that for Merrie in the end, and we would cook on Sunday, freeze up portions to use during the week. Typically home cooked requires a supplement. Unfortunately, four months after diagnosis, we lost Merrie.....despite diet, medications and specialists.

[Guest Eyeblaura]

Enzo tests positive for capillaria every year. We've treated him with rounds of panacur but he still tests positive. He has no coughing or breathing symptoms so we just leave him be. They do not cause any GI issues.

 

Hope you find an answer to his problems poor guy.

[Guest AngelPup]

 

That makes no sense. I've fed dogs prescription diets when sensible and transitioned to non-prescription probably a hundred times over the years. The only time you'd need to continue feeding a prescription diet is if you have a dog who needs to have hydrolyzed (preprocessed) protein, and that is extremely unlikely. There are a few other cases when you'd need to feed a specially formulated diet @ forever, but those could be home-prepared and involve specific diseases that your dog has no signs of.

 

Also, if the dog has a food intolerance (and sometimes an allergy, which is different), you can test until you're blue in the face and you will find precisely nothing of use.

BTW, it isn't uncommon to have to try 3-4 different foods to find one that agrees with an individual dog.

 

Yeah, I though of you guys when she said that--I just don't know enough about GI issues and prescription diets. Besides, I do prefer to try Iams first--especially since so many GTers have switched to it successfully, the adoption agency recommends it, AND it's inexpensive. And I agree about the food intolerance, which is why I'm leaning toward just trying to find a food he can tolerate, which is probably what I'd have to end up doing anyway.

Good idea to start with the Iams green bag.....

 

If, and it's a big if, your grey has a intestinal/digestive disorder that requires long term food management, you may not have to stick with prescription food forever. Batmom is right, you may be able to transition after awhile, unless there is a condition like Merrie had, where she had to have a diet of less than 5% fat.....just no commerical food available that would meet that low fat requirement, and we researched every food possible. In a case like that, you can always go to a home prepared diet....check out balanceit.com; it might be more work but less expensive. We did do that for Merrie in the end, and we would cook on Sunday, freeze up portions to use during the week. Typically home cooked requires a supplement. Unfortunately, four months after diagnosis, we lost Merrie.....despite diet, medications and specialists.

 

Thanks again chardae for the suggestions and link. We'll see how it goes. So sad that Merrie passed so soon after you finally figured out what was wrong... I give you a lot of credit for trying so hard!

[Batmom]

Fingers crossed that will work for you, or at least get you started in a better direction.

 

If you do end up with trying a prescription food, FWIW I have had good results with Hills I/D canned (even for diarrhea, not just upset tummy), Purina EN canned (similar to I/D), Royal Canin Adult Venison & Potato (limited ingredient; dry and canned) ..... I do know some folks on here use the I/D dry and get good results with it. When I go to a prescription food for diarrhea issues, my goal is to see if the food clears things up. If it does, then I can be moderately certain it is a "find the right food" issue. Costly for a couple weeks but you can almost always find a similar, lower-cost, non-prescript food once you have some idea of what works.

[Guest AngelPup]

Enzo tests positive for capillaria every year. We've treated him with rounds of panacur but he still tests positive. He has no coughing or breathing symptoms so we just leave him be. They do not cause any GI issues.

 

Hope you find an answer to his problems poor guy.

 

Thanks Eyeblaura. It's SO very frustrating.

[Guest AngelPup]

Fingers crossed that will work for you, or at least get you started in a better direction.

 

If you do end up with trying a prescription food, FWIW I have had good results with Hills I/D canned (even for diarrhea, not just upset tummy), Purina EN canned (similar to I/D), Royal Canin Adult Venison & Potato (limited ingredient; dry and canned) ..... I do know some folks on here use the I/D dry and get good results with it. When I go to a prescription food for diarrhea issues, my goal is to see if the food clears things up. If it does, then I can be moderately certain it is a "find the right food" issue. Costly for a couple weeks but you can almost always find a similar, lower-cost, non-prescript food once you have some idea of what works.

 

Thanks again Batmom. I don't know what I would do had I not known about GT... It's so helpful and reassuring to know that I'm not alone and others have gone through this. Plus, the advice of those who have been there, done that is invaluable!

[Guest Zizi]

Still no changes in Brady? Is your vet appointment with the new one tomorrow?

[Guest AngelPup]

Hi Zizi. It seems as though the pumpkin is helping. They are still a bit mushy (some more than others), but most are formed. I've been slowly introducing kibble and so far, so good--no real change that I've noticed. Tractor Supply didn't have any small bags of Iams, so I ended up picking up a small bag of the food I was originally going to switch him to (4Health salmon and potato), since I want to be sure the food agrees with him before buying the large bags. He seemed to do well on it the first time I tried, but I never got to the point where he was exclusively on it, so I don't know. If that doesn't agree with him, than I'll go somewhere else and pick up a small bag of Iams.

 

His appointment for the second opinion is tonight... They called yesterday to confirm and want me to bring a stool sample. We'll see.

[Guest Zizi]

How did Brady make out with new vet?