Poop, Poop, And More Poop!

[Guest AngelPup]

Brady has been through so much! Have you considered fasting him for 24 hours to let his gut rest? After having a dog with IBD. Sometimes this was the begining to a solution. If his bowels or intestines are inflamed, sometimes having them do a little less work will help calm things down.

Oatmeal is a good grain to put with your bland diet as it will absorb extra water in the colon and bulk up. Don't get instant. Use the old fashioned and cook a big pot. Also, are you using turkey, ground turkey or ground turkey breast? Ground turkey is pretty high in fat as they grind the skin in too. Tukey breast or ground turkey breat would be best, and if that's not am option, boneless skinless chikcen is usually lower in price this time of year. Good luck and wishing Brady and you better days ahead

 

I've fasted him a while back with no improvement. I was going to do it again, but the vet recommended against it since he lost weight and is already so thin. Plus, he's always so HUNGRY.

 

I was thinking oatmeal would be good. I just don't want to change too many things all at once--it just makes it harder to figure out what's helping and what's not. I'll give the mac and turkey a whirl for a few days to see if that helps first. I've been boiling the ground turkey and draining the fat out of it, so hopefully he's not getting too much fat.

 

I need to check in with the vet this afternoon to give her an update and see what she wants to do going forward. I'm sure she will want to send Brady's stool out to be tested for that other parasite, but I'm going to push for the Drontal Plus first. We're coming up on two weeks post Panacur treatment for hookworms on Friday. She might want to do another fecal before doing that though. In any case, I have a ton of questions for her.

[a_daerr]

If you're doing ground meat (turkey, beef, whatever), go ahead and rinse it.

[Guest AngelPup]

Potatoes are a good substitute for rice. I know some people also use oatmeal. Pasta is also something else to try. We also used pureed baby food that was all meat sometimes.

 

Sorry you're going through this but I know your pain! We had almost 3 months of bright yellow runny poop trying to find something that would work and getting blood samples and stool samples run, then deworming and not seeing much improvement. Our poor guy lost 10 lbs. What finally worked for us was boiled hamburger and mushy rice for 2 weeks, and then a slow switch (over a month) to Purina DCO and tylan powder. Purina DCO sounds a lot like Hills W/D - low fat and high fiber. Now he's doing great and has put the weight back on. I think after diarrhea for so long, you have to get the gut calmed down, and then find a food they can handle. I was afraid for awhile I was going to have to make him boiled hamburger and rice for the rest of his life!

 

Our guy also had a B12 deficiency and had to have shots. Has he been tested for that?

 

Every dog is different - good luck and keep asking questions! Best wishes for Brady!

 

Just wondering... is your dog still eating the Purina DCO and tylan powder or was he able to wean off of both of them?

If you're doing ground meat (turkey, beef, whatever), go ahead and rinse it.

 

Ok. I've been trying to drain out the fat, but not the flavor. It already doesn't look very appetizing, although he seems to LOVE it! I'll do that the next time I make a batch.

[Guest Zizi]

Yes. I'm going to stick with the turkey for now and see if things get better. He's been on the beef for a while with no improvement. I made another large batch of bland diet tonight, but used macaroni instead of the rice. I want to see if those white flecks go away and whether his stools improve. I'll start feeding him that for breakfast tomorrow. I hope he's not allergic to wheat!

 

He went twice this afternoon. The first time I thought he was finally going to produce a normal stool because the first half was beautiful, then it quickly turned to liquid. His second was liquid. I should have picked up some paper plates to place under him when he goes ...it is very hard to pick these things up!

Was that the first time you have seen some what of a normal stool? I know it went to liquid but maybe just maybe his diet is starting to work.

[DofSweetPotatos]

How much weight has Brady lost? Do you have a starting weight and his current weight. How thin does the vet think he is?
How many meals per day are you feeding? If it's 2, try dividing those two meals into 4. So, 4 small meals per day may stop the always hungry-ness. or he might just be one of those dogs who always act hungry. I had a couple of foodies here, you could feed them until they burst (not that I tried) and then they would still act like they were hungry.

[Guest AngelPup]

Was that the first time you have seen some what of a normal stool? I know it went to liquid but maybe just maybe his diet is starting to work.

 

Well, not the first time. His stool has improved in the past albeit briefly (when I first started the bland diet and then when we first gave him Flagyl). The last time I saw perfect stools was when he was almost entirely on 4Health salmon and potato and he started taking Flagyl for the third time after not taking it for approx. a week or two. The next day he went back to pudding poop and I went back to the bland diet.

[Guest AngelPup]

How much weight has Brady lost? Do you have a starting weight and his current weight. How thin does the vet think he is?

How many meals per day are you feeding? If it's 2, try dividing those two meals into 4. So, 4 small meals per day may stop the always hungry-ness. or he might just be one of those dogs who always act hungry. I had a couple of foodies here, you could feed them until they burst (not that I tried) and then they would still act like they were hungry.

 

When I adopted him back in May he was 78 pounds (his racing weight was 76 pounds). At his next appointment, three weeks later, he was up to almost 80 pounds and looked good, although you could still see all his ribs. At his most recent appointment on July 1, he weighed in at almost 76 pounds. I was feeding him two cups of bland diet in the morning and the same for supper. The vet suggested that I add two more cups a day, so I've been feeding him three rounded cups for breakfast and the same amount for dinner. I think he's just one of those dogs that would eat until they burst. Either that or he really does have a digestion issue and isn't getting what he needs from the food he's getting...

[DofSweetPotatos]

It's almost normal to see the last 2 ribs on a greyhound or there about. Some dogs carry their weight differently. If he's near his racing weight, I wouldn't be too concerned. Remember, he's losing muscle mass because he isn't conditioned as a racer any longer. So he may lighten up. If he raced at 76, I'd almost be concerned that 80 is too heavy, but without seeing Brady, I wouldn't know. The losing of 4 pounds in 2 months is a bit concerning, but given the diarrhea, not overly concerning.

I really hope you can get to the bottom of his digestion/motility issues as I'm sure he's just not feeling awesome.

Good luck and gentle hugs to the both of you.

[Guest AngelPup]

UPDATE. I spoke with the vet and reviewed everything. She thinks that there is more than hookworms going on here and suggested that the next step should be sending Brady's stool out to a lab to be tested. I asked about Coccidia and Albon and she said that puppies and younger dogs typically have this, but she doesn't normally see it in older dogs. She also said that it would have shown up in any one of the fecal tests they have already run and didn't. However, she did agree to try Albon for 10 days to see if things improve, since the Flagyl doesn't seem to have any lasting results. I'm going to be picking that up tonight, but I think I'll wait until tomorrow to try that and give Brady's body a day's rest between using the Flagyl and Albon. The 10 days will take me right to my appointment with the other vet for her 2nd opinion before I proceed with more expensive tests.

 

I didn't bother asking about the Drontal Plus since she doesn't want to treat for hooks again until we get another positive fecal result. She said I should bring another stool in a week or two and then we'll take it from there. I'm thinking I'll just wait for my appointment on the 18th with the other vet, since she'll most likely want to do a fecal test anyway. If he comes back positive for hookworm, I'll ask her about the Drontal Plus.

 

I also asked about Tylan powder and she said that it's another, older type of antibiotic that can help, but she doesn't have it on hand (although she did say she could order it). She said she would prefer to figure out what is causing the diarrhea and cure it instead of just treating some unknown bug indefinitely.

 

So, that is where we stand right now. She said that if the Albon is going to help, I'd see results within the first two to three days, but regardless, she wants me to finish the 10 days.

 

Meanwhile, I'll continue with the bland diet.

It's almost normal to see the last 2 ribs on a greyhound or there about. Some dogs carry their weight differently. If he's near his racing weight, I wouldn't be too concerned. Remember, he's losing muscle mass because he isn't conditioned as a racer any longer. So he may lighten up. If he raced at 76, I'd almost be concerned that 80 is too heavy, but without seeing Brady, I wouldn't know. The losing of 4 pounds in 2 months is a bit concerning, but given the diarrhea, not overly concerning.

I really hope you can get to the bottom of his digestion/motility issues as I'm sure he's just not feeling awesome.

Good luck and gentle hugs to the both of you.

 

Thanks! I'm not overly concerned about his weight--I just wouldn't want him to loose much more weight. Even at the 80 pounds I could still see every rib, so he didn't appear over weight to me. I know some of the ribs should always show and it's not good for them to carry too much.

 

My first priority is to get finally get rid of this darn diarrhea and whatever is causing it!! SO very frustrating!

[Guest AngelPup]

I took Brady with me to pick up the Albon so I could weight him. He's up to 77.7 pounds, so it looks like I'm feeding him enough.

 

The Albon is actually a six day treatment with more pills the first day and then five days of standard dosage. Hopefully that helps.

 

Now that I switched Brady to pasta instead of the rice, it seems as though he's more satisifed. It was actually funny to see him lie down in a carb stuper after he ate. I might even be able to feed him less, since I think the pasta might be more calories than the rice...

[Guest Zizi]

Checking in on Brady? Is he doing any better?

[Guest AngelPup]

Checking in on Brady? Is he doing any better?

 

Thanks for checking in on him. Had you asked me two days ago, I would have said a cautious, "YES!" I purposely haven't posted an update because I was afraid to jump the gun. His poop improved a lot the night I started feeding him the pasta instead of rice. He had two great poops the next day (Tuesday) and then Wednesday, they started to get soft again (still formed, but soft). Today, he's back to pudding, although the stools are darker, more normal colored. :::sigh:::

 

Because there was such an improvement with the pasta, I didn't want to change anything else, so I didn't stop giving him the Flagyl (he's still taking it)--figured it might help more now that things aren't moving so quickly through him and the rice isn't irritating his gut anymore. I'm holding off on giving him the Albon.

 

I thought I finally figured out what was going on--rice allergy or intolerance. It made a lot of sense once I reviewed everything I've done to this point and reviewed my posts here for the timeline of events ...the first kibble I was feeding him had a lot of rice in it (Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice), he started improving when I was switching his food from bland (beef and rice) to his new kibble, 4Health Salmon and Potato (plus we started the Flagyl again), but because he was still having diarrhea when I spoke with the vet the day before, she had recommended we go back to the bland diet (beef or chicken and rice) and his diarrhea got worse (even on the Flagyl). I didn't see much of an improvement when I switched the beef with the turkey, but when I switched the rice with pasta the change was dramatic and quick.

 

I did some research, and found the symptoms of food allergy/intolerance is very similar to what Brady has been experiencing (several large, soft poops a day, diarrhea, vomiting, flaky skin, ear infection, etc.).

 

So he clearly can't tolerate rice, but now he's back to pudding poop. So now I'm wondering whether he can't tolerate or is allergic to wheat too. It IS almost two weeks since he finished his last round of Panacure and in the past I noticed that his poops got worse around this time, so maybe he still has hookworms? The vet wanted me to bring another stool sample in one to two weeks, so I'm debating whether to bring one on Saturday or wait a week for the second opinion. I might just do both.

 

For the time being, I'm not changing anything.

[Guest Zizi]

Thanks for checking in on him. Had you asked me two days ago, I would have said a cautious, "YES!" I purposely haven't posted an update because I was afraid to jump the gun. His poop improved a lot the night I started feeding him the pasta instead of rice. He had two great poops the next day (Tuesday) and then Wednesday, they started to get soft again (still formed, but soft). Today, he's back to pudding, although the stools are darker, more normal colored. :::sigh:::

 

Because there was such an improvement with the pasta, I didn't want to change anything else, so I didn't stop giving him the Flagyl (he's still taking it)--figured it might help more now that things aren't moving so quickly through him and the rice isn't irritating his gut anymore. I'm holding off on giving him the Albon.

 

I thought I finally figured out what was going on--rice allergy or intolerance. It made a lot of sense once I reviewed everything I've done to this point and reviewed my posts here for the timeline of events ...the first kibble I was feeding him had a lot of rice in it (Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice), he started improving when I was switching his food from bland (beef and rice) to his new kibble, 4Health Salmon and Potato (plus we started the Flagyl again), but because he was still having diarrhea when I spoke with the vet the day before, she had recommended we go back to the bland diet (beef or chicken and rice) and his diarrhea got worse (even on the Flagyl). I didn't see much of an improvement when I switched the beef with the turkey, but when I switched the rice with pasta the change was dramatic and quick.

 

I did some research, and found the symptoms of food allergy/intolerance is very similar to what Brady has been experiencing (several large, soft poops a day, diarrhea, vomiting, flaky skin, ear infection, etc.).

 

So he clearly can't tolerate rice, but now he's back to pudding poop. So now I'm wondering whether he can't tolerate or is allergic to wheat too. It IS almost two weeks since he finished his last round of Panacure and in the past I noticed that his poops got worse around this time, so maybe he still has hookworms? The vet wanted me to bring another stool sample in one to two weeks, so I'm debating whether to bring one on Saturday or wait a week for the second opinion. I might just do both.

 

For the time being, I'm not changing anything.

Thanks for the update, I do think of him a lot. Poor boy sounds like you could be onto something with the rice intolerance. Hope the hooks are gone.

[Guest RMarie]

Have you tried giving him Pepto at all? If he has any gut irritation, I'm not sure Flagy will help with that, but Pepto will.

[a_daerr]

Anytime you switch to a new food, there is the potential that you get a honeymoon period where it gets better before it gets worse. Or vice versa, it could get worse before it gets better. Contrary to what pet food companies will have you believe, only a small percentage of dogs have true 'food allergies.' So hopefully, it is just the rice, but I'd still gauge it for awhile before you go crazy trying to find a grain-free, hypoallergenic, $75 per bag food.

[Guest AngelPup]

Have you tried giving him Pepto at all? If he has any gut irritation, I'm not sure Flagy will help with that, but Pepto will.

 

The last time I reported to the vet that Brady was eating a lot of grass, she suggested I give him the generic Pepcid. But I also purchased Pepto to have on hand since the adoption group recommends that for diarrhea.

 

I just don't want to add or change anything yet until I get another stool sample done and speak with the vet. I'm going to drop one off either tonight or tomorrow morning at our regular vet. If it comes back positive, I'll insist on Drontal Plus. If it's not positive, I'll wait for the second opinion on Thursday and bring a sample there too.

 

The more things I try, the more confusing it gets.

Thanks for the update, I do think of him a lot. Poor boy sounds like you could be onto something with the rice intolerance. Hope the hooks are gone.

 

Thanks Zizi. Me too!

Anytime you switch to a new food, there is the potential that you get a honeymoon period where it gets better before it gets worse. Or vice versa, it could get worse before it gets better. Contrary to what pet food companies will have you believe, only a small percentage of dogs have true 'food allergies.' So hopefully, it is just the rice, but I'd still gauge it for awhile before you go crazy trying to find a grain-free, hypoallergenic, $75 per bag food.

 

Yeah, that's another reason I don't want to make any other changes right now. I do realize that only a few dogs have true food allergies. Brady's symptoms are closer to the food intolerance symptoms, although he does seem to have an issue with ear infections (yeast) which is a sign of an allergy, but not necessarily to food.

[Guest OPointyDog]

 

Just wondering... is your dog still eating the Purina DCO and tylan powder or was he able to wean off of both of them?

 

He's still on both and still doing well. Just had his B12 levels retested, and he's back in normal range, but on the very low end of normal, so we'll continue B12 shots once a month for awhile. His weight is back up, his poop is normal, and his coat is improving. If that's what he needs to eat to be healthy, I'm fine with it!

 

I really thought he had food allergies and wasn't doing well on poultry based on his previous food reactions, but it is so incredibly hard to tell - the meat protein is only one of lots of things in the food that he could have been reacting to, and then in the end, the DCO is chicken based, and he's doing great on it! So it wasn't poultry after all. I think in Mika's case, it was needing a high fiber food with low fat more than anything.

 

We'll probably leave him on the DCO indefinitely, but will chat with our vet about discontinuing the tylan powder eventually to see if that helps. I can understand your vet's point about wanting to know the cause, but on the other hand, tylan powder really just readjusts the balance of good and bad bacteria in the digestive tract. If it works, it works.

[Guest AngelPup]

 

He's still on both and still doing well. Just had his B12 levels retested, and he's back in normal range, but on the very low end of normal, so we'll continue B12 shots once a month for awhile. His weight is back up, his poop is normal, and his coat is improving. If that's what he needs to eat to be healthy, I'm fine with it!

 

I really thought he had food allergies and wasn't doing well on poultry based on his previous food reactions, but it is so incredibly hard to tell - the meat protein is only one of lots of things in the food that he could have been reacting to, and then in the end, the DCO is chicken based, and he's doing great on it! So it wasn't poultry after all. I think in Mika's case, it was needing a high fiber food with low fat more than anything.

 

We'll probably leave him on the DCO indefinitely, but will chat with our vet about discontinuing the tylan powder eventually to see if that helps. I can understand your vet's point about wanting to know the cause, but on the other hand, tylan powder really just readjusts the balance of good and bad bacteria in the digestive tract. If it works, it works.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad you found out what works for him. I really hope we figure this out soon.

[Batmom]

I would quit the bland diet and all the meds and either switch him back to the Diamond you were originally feeding or feed canned I/D with a little W/D tossed in. Reviewing everything you've gone through, it sounds like you have a food problem, not an ongoing worm or absorption problem, and it sounds like he is a dog who would benefit from more fiber rather than less.

 

Note that for most dogs, you need to wait 24-48 hours before deciding whether a food is working or not. Anything they poop out before that could be the *previous* food.

[Guest RMarie]

I would quit the bland diet and all the meds and either switch him back to the Diamond you were originally feeding or feed canned I/D with a little W/D tossed in. Reviewing everything you've gone through, it sounds like you have a food problem, not an ongoing worm or absorption problem, and it sounds like he is a dog who would benefit from more fiber rather than less.

 

Note that for most dogs, you need to wait 24-48 hours before deciding whether a food is working or not. Anything they poop out before that could be the *previous* food.

[Guest chardae]

Angel Pup

 

Has your vet taken steps to consider the possibility of Inflammatory Bowel Disease? Usually that begins with Texas A&M lab analysis, an abdominal ultrasound, then biopsy....not trying to be alarming, but been down this road a couple times...also, protein levels in the blood to determine if Brady's intestinal tract is absorbing properly....(perhaps you had this done earlier and I missed it in your posts).

 

Keeping good thoughts for Brady.

[Guest AngelPup]

I would quit the bland diet and all the meds and either switch him back to the Diamond you were originally feeding or feed canned I/D with a little W/D tossed in. Reviewing everything you've gone through, it sounds like you have a food problem, not an ongoing worm or absorption problem, and it sounds like he is a dog who would benefit from more fiber rather than less.

 

Note that for most dogs, you need to wait 24-48 hours before deciding whether a food is working or not. Anything they poop out before that could be the *previous* food.

 

Thanks Batmom. He very well may have a food problem, but he was never good on the Diamond Naturals, so I'm a bit hesitant to go back to that. Plus, I just made another batch of turkey and pasta last night and figured I'd wait to make any more changes until I speak with the second opinion vet on Thursday. I just want to see what she recommends and if it's any different than our current vet.

 

I took another stool sample to the vet this morning and they found nothing. So that's good news. I'll bring another one to my Thursday appointment since that will be three weeks from the last treatment and that is when the hookworm eggs showed up the last time.

[Guest AngelPup]

Angel Pup

 

Has your vet taken steps to consider the possibility of Inflammatory Bowel Disease? Usually that begins with Texas A&M lab analysis, an abdominal ultrasound, then biopsy....not trying to be alarming, but been down this road a couple times...also, protein levels in the blood to determine if Brady's intestinal tract is absorbing properly....(perhaps you had this done earlier and I missed it in your posts).

 

Keeping good thoughts for Brady.

 

Hi chardae. She hasn't mentioned IBD, but suspects it's either a parasite that doesn't come up in standard flotation testing or an enzyme deficiency. She wants to send a stool sample to be tested for Cryptosporidium and Giardia. She doesn't think it's Giardia, since he's been on Flagyl for a while now and Panacur also treats Giardia, but they don't test for just crypto--it's a package deal. That test is close to $200 because they need to send it out (not sure if this one is the Texas lab). If that comes back negative, she wants to send a stool sample to a lab in Texas (maybe Texas A&M?) for a bunch of other tests for malabsorption, since she thinks he could have an enzyme deficiency. This test also costs approx $200. We're quickly going broke due to vet bills. That is one of the reasons I wanted to get a second opinion by another vet (that and the fact that I have mixed feelings about the one I have). If these tests are needed, than I'll gladly fork over the cash to figure out what's going on, so we can finally treat it and, hopefully, resolve his bowel issues. I hope it's just a food issue!

[Guest AngelPup]

 

Thanks Batmom. He very well may have a food problem, but he was never good on the Diamond Naturals, so I'm a bit hesitant to go back to that. Plus, I just made another batch of turkey and pasta last night and figured I'd wait to make any more changes until I speak with the second opinion vet on Thursday. I just want to see what she recommends and if it's any different than our current vet.

 

I took another stool sample to the vet this morning and they found nothing. So that's good news. I'll bring another one to my Thursday appointment since that will be three weeks from the last treatment and that is when the hookworm eggs showed up the last time.

 

I forgot to mention that the vet did say he may need more fiber and a low fat diet. Personally, I think I'd rather see if this would help before spending another $200 to $400+ on more stool tests. I'll bring this up to both vets and see what they say.

[Guest chardae]

My experience with the higher fiber/low fat diets (typically vet-prescribed) is they do a pretty good job firming up stools.....although some increase the amount of stool (W/D, for example), so you may have to switch around to find the right one. Surprisingly, my dogs always loved the taste.....they were very happy with Royal Canin Prescription gastrointestinal/low fat....LOVED the kibble although not too keen on the canned. The Royal Canin did not increase their stool volume or frequency.