How Should I Teach The Harley Davidson Growl?

[deboosh]

I've been looking for training examples of teaching basic commands to greyhounds, (which are sadly lacking, btw) but came across this video from a greyhound/inmate program that was posted on youtube.

 

At around the 47 second mark, one of the inmates demonstrates how his grey can imitate a Harley Davidson motorcycle starting up. He straddles the dog, pretends to twist his ear, at which time the dog responds by giving a drawn out growl. I think it's cute, and something my hubby would have fun teaching Bonnie.

 

My question is, how would one go about teaching the dog to vocalize a growl without the feelings that go along with it? I would want the dog to know we were playing and would never want to teach her anything that would make her feel uneasy or truly elicit a growl.

 

Here's the video. Any suggestions on how to begin? It takes place near the beginning, around 47 seconds into it:

 

 

Thanks!

 

ETA: I've "asked" the video to start at the 40 sec. mark, so you won't have to wait long to see the trick.

Edited March 24, 2013 by deboosh

[grey14me]

I don't know how to do it, but that is adorable!!

[Guest Giselle]

Is the dog actually growling or is the guy growling? It sounds way too loud and "human".

 

Also, the lady in the video totally botched the definitions of learning theory. She explained positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement completely incorrectly, and they are not training with "love". They're using negative reinforcement and positive punishment. Look at how the dogs are responding. They don't give happy eye contact or respond with gusto. It's pretty sad for me to watch.

 

I wouldn't believe that the trick they taught is actually what they say it is.

 

Edited to add: Training a greyhound is training a dog. Look for any good video by a skilled trainer who understands learning theory, and just use the same principles with your dog.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Giselle

[XTRAWLD]

LOL love it. Kasey has a really low growl, and we are able to ask for it on command, as well as stop it when asked. LOL I so want to try this.

 

To get them to growl on command first, your dog has to be a natural "growler" I think. Kasey's growl escalates only as asked into a full bark. We simply stop him before the bark with a reward. He eventually associated asking and stopping with food.

[Guest Vers]

Is the dog actually growling or is the guy growling? It sounds way too loud and "human".

 

Also, the lady in the video totally botched the definitions of learning theory. She explained positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement completely incorrectly, and they are not training with "love". They're using negative reinforcement and positive punishment. Look at how the dogs are responding. They don't give happy eye contact or respond with gusto. It's pretty sad for me to watch.

 

I wouldn't believe that the trick they taught is actually what they say it is.

 

Edited to add: Training a greyhound is training a dog. Look for any good video by a skilled trainer who understands learning theory, and just use the same principles with your dog.

 

100% with Giselle. I was excited to watch this video, and completely deflated by the methods used. I hope other prison programs are doing better, but this was pretty crushing to watch.

[Sambuca]

I didn't watch the video, but I would only do train this with a dog that growls naturally in play or fun. When they do it on their own, I would click (I use clicker training) and treat. Eventually when they reliably do it on command, you add in the rest.

[Hubcitypam]

 

I didn't watch the video, but I would only do train this with a dog that growls naturally in play or fun. When they do it on their own, I would click (I use clicker training) and treat. Eventually when they reliably do it on command, you add in the rest.

If it is really the dog it is something the dog did on its own that the guy *thought* sounded like a Harley and made a parlor trick out of it.

 

I almost threw up when the inmate says "as long as your dog doesn't yelp or its feet don't leave the ground you've done a proper correction" as he keeps yanking on that poor dog who needs no correction.

[deboosh]

I didn't watch the video, but I would only do train this with a dog that growls naturally in play or fun. When they do it on their own, I would click (I use clicker training) and treat. Eventually when they reliably do it on command, you add in the rest.

 

I've just started doing this in teaching her to lie down; I click/treat and say down when she does it naturally, But my girl has never growled, in play or otherwise, so I guess I won't be hearing any motorcycle noises from her.

[Guest Giselle]

All dogs possess the capacity to growl and bark. For years, I thought my Dobermutt was mute because she NEVER barked or growled. In fact, this is partially why she is such an extreme case of aggression - she doesn't do any normal warning signs. No growls, no barks, nothing.

 

But, if you are creative and create situations to prompt any vocalization at all, you can shape a full blown growl or bark. For example, many greyhounds whine. This is a great starting point. When your grey is happy or really excited, let her whine just a little and immediately click/treat. Set the situation up again. Wait for another whine or whimper = click/treat. Repeat repeat repeat until she's whining loudly. Then, you can wait for a little more. Wait for a soft woof = click/treat. Repeat repeat repeat until the dog is actually vocalizing the way you want her to. You can eventually put a word to it, like "Growl" or "Bark".

 

Using this simple shaping method, my formerly "mute" Dobermutt can now bark on command. All dogs can do it as long as you use generalizable, reliable methods based on learning theory.

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

http://neversaynevergreyhounds.blogspot.com/

 

taught me everything I know!

[a_daerr]

I taught Henry the command 'tell me!' just by getting him real excited and expanding upon his whining (as Giselle mentioned). I'd started giving him more and more attention as the whines turned into barks and got louder. But it's not something he will do all the time- he has to be in the right mood to do it.

[deboosh]

When Bonnie gets in one of her goofy moods, she starts wagging her tail, paws the length of her muzzle, and then starts to whine, ending it with a high pitched series of barks. If I imitate her whine, it encourages her to keep it up. So I will start training from there. Thanks for the well-explained examples of how to take advantage of a training opportunity, Giselle and Adaerr!

 

Clawsandpaws, I can't believe I'm admitting this, but I found Never Say Never Greyhounds over a year ago, but completely overlooked her blog! Really now, sometimes I'm such a dodo. And of course, the training I've been searching for is smack-dab all right there~~in the darn blog! So, Thank You, Clawsandpaws, I've been feeling apprehensive and intimidated about training, but now I've got some guidance, if only I'd open my eyes. I feel much more at ease about it now, thanks to you!

 

Edited March 25, 2013 by deboosh

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

When Bonnie gets in one of her goofy moods, she starts wagging her tail, paws the length of her muzzle, and then starts to whine, ending it with a high pitched series of barks. If I imitate her whine, it encourages her to keep it up. So I will start training from there. Thanks for the well-explained examples of how to take advantage of a training opportunity, Giselle and Adaerr!

 

Clawsandpaws, I can't believe I'm admitting this, but I found Never Say Never Greyhounds over a year ago, but completely overlooked her blog! Really now, sometimes I'm such a dodo. And of course, the training I've been searching for is smack-dab all right there~~in the darn blog! So, Thank You, Clawsandpaws, I've been feeling apprehensive and intimidated about training, but now I've got some guidance, if only I'd open my eyes. I feel much more at ease about it now, thanks to you!

I did the same thing! Someone on GT gave me a link to the blog when I first adopted (a year ago and my first grey) but I read it thinking "that's too hard" I started obedience training a few months ago, and voila! He sits, downs, shakes on command w/ or w/o a treat! I am FINALLY starting recall training.

 

ETA: You just have to KEEP TRYING, don't give up or be discouraged. If something doesn't work for you and your grey, then alter the method until it does. For example, there are no hills where I live, so training to sit with the lure method (from the blog) did not really work for me, I had to do it standing on the bed where he felt more stable. I also have to do a few really short sessions, like 5 mins 3x a day until he realized how yummy all that sitting business can be

Edited March 25, 2013 by Clawsandpaws

[deboosh]

I did the same thing! Someone on GT gave me a link to the blog when I first adopted (a year ago and my first grey) but I read it thinking "that's too hard" I started obedience training a few months ago, and voila! He sits, downs, shakes on command w/ or w/o a treat! I am FINALLY starting recall training.

 

ETA: You just have to KEEP TRYING, don't give up or be discouraged. If something doesn't work for you and your grey, then alter the method until it does. For example, there are no hills where I live, so training to sit with the lure method (from the blog) did not really work for me, I had to do it standing on the bed where he felt more stable. I also have to do a few really short sessions, like 5 mins 3x a day until he realized how yummy all that sitting business can be

 

Well now, what do you know, who'd a thunk I'd actually take advantage of the steep paved path that was the bane of my existence 20 years ago. Said path leads down to a ravine 2 minutes from my house, and when my boys were little, they played organized baseball there, 3 x/wk. I cursed it because as an obese smoker, I thought my heart would explode by the time I made back to the top. But now that path is going to be my new best friend, as there isn't a more perfect spot for teaching my girlie to sit (and I no longer smoke~~don't ask about the other, lol)

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

Well now, what do you know, who'd a thunk I'd actually take advantage of the steep paved path that was the bane of my existence 20 years ago. Said path leads down to a ravine 2 minutes from my house, and when my boys were little, they played organized baseball there, 3 x/wk. I cursed it because as an obese smoker, I thought my heart would explode by the time I made back to the top. But now that path is going to be my new best friend, as there isn't a more perfect spot for teaching my girlie to sit (and I no longer smoke~~don't ask about the other, lol)

Hahaha, well good luck bring a lot of treats!

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

I've trained Jayne to growl on command. She's growly when she plays with me, and I was able to expand from play to doing it on command.

 

I didn't start working on this trick until I'd had Jayne at least a year or more. She and I had played kinda roughhouse from pretty early on, but I was careful to not push because she was a bit space aggressive in the beginning.

 

Eventually we were bonded well enough that we would play around my bed. She would "guard" it from me. Twirling about to "attack" me whenever I tried to sneak onto the bed. It worked out to where I would grab her in a hug, tucking her head into my chest and putting my hand on her chest, and she would growl at me. Once I noticed the pattern I began to do it intentionally, and mark the growl with a "good girl". Then, reward her with a cookie (conveniently kept on top of her crate).

 

Now she'll do it just about anytime I ask, but I haven't gotten a verbal command for it yet. I have to grab her in that specific manner to get a growl, kinda like the guy in the video is straddling the grey and playing with his ears.

 

I love doing it, but it creeps my husband out. She really sounds like she's about to relieve me of a kidney or something when we do it.

[krissy]

I love doing it, but it creeps my husband out. She really sounds like she's about to relieve me of a kidney or something when we do it.

I wish I could teach one of the dogs to growl on command, but neither growl. I'd love to give it a hand signal and use it on dark night walks when I see questionable people.

[GeorgeofNE]

I taught my old dog to bark on hand signal by first teaching him "speak." He never barked. I had to bark like a maniac at him for a few days until he caught on. They it was easy.

 

I wouldn't attempt to teach George anything like that. It would be rather like slamming my head against the wall. I feel fortunate he will actually "go lie down" after only the third command to do so...

[deboosh]

I feel fortunate he will actually "go lie down" after only the third command to do so...

 

I'd look on the bright side~~there's nowhere to go but up, LOL!