He Started To Growl...

[adudle00]

So last night we were getting ready for bed and Mover was in our bedroom just laying down watching us, as always. DH knelt down to pet him and he barked, growled and turned towards him with an open mouth. This really freaked us both out... First of all, Mover doesn't bark, this is the first time in the time we've had him that he has barked. Second, he growled! I don't really know what to think of this behavior...I honestly lost sleep over it last night. I feel like now I can't trust him and I'm slightly afraid of him now...I really don't think DH did anything intimidating to cause this sort of reaction.

The only other thing I've though about (even before this incident) was I wonder if he was possibly abused before we got him? I noticed sometimes when we go to pet him he flinches quite a bit and I've seen this behavior displayed in dogs that have been abused when I used to work at an animal hospital. I don't know if this is the case, maybe it's because he's just not used to being pet so much, but it was a thought...

Anyways, I don't know what to think of this behavior or how to ignore/get past it. I plan on calling the rescue I adopted him from later today to talk about this. I just find this behavior really unsettling. Has anybody else had this happen?

[Guest grey_dreams]

The reason why he flinches when you approach him is because, in his view of the world, the manner of your approach is threatening. Primates like humans are all about grabbing things and clinching things with their hands and looming over things. In canine language and canine view of the world, this kind of approach is rude and/or threatening. If you persist with this kind of behavior, and fail to understand the obvious signals that the dog is sending you, the dog will, like a human would do, try to "talk louder" in the hope that now you might hear them, which, for a dog, includes a low growl and/or air snap. Unfortunately, the fear you now feel is also sensed by the dog, and the dog will be on edge because of it, so the misunderstandings and miscommunications are escalating.

 

Dogs are another species with a different language than ours. If we can meet them halfway in a mutally shared language of communications, the dog-human relationship is incredibly rich and rewarding. Please contact your group sooner rather than later. They can come to your house and watch the interactions and they will be able to help you. If someone from your group won't come to your house, please contact a local animal behaviorist who uses only positive methods (no shock collars, no force, no coercion) to come and observe your interactions.

 

Edited to add:

Some types of dogs (think: labs) are more flexible in their communications with humans. They will accept a looming, grabbing human with dignity and grace, and understand that this is just what primates do, there is no threat involved. Other dogs are less adept in understanding the primates. Many greyhounds are incredibly sensitive and soulful animals, but they have lived most of their lives around other greyhounds. Many of them may be less adept at understanding the primates, at least in the very beginning while settling into a home.

Edited February 1, 2013 by grey_dreams

[Yamaha_gurl]

He was sleeping, your DH startled him. Do a search on sleep aggression, lots of info to be found on this forum.

[claudiav]

you must have a new greyhound. It takes a good year for them to be comfortable enough to really trust you and show his true personality. This first year is full of changes they're never been exposed to. They have never had people come at them and pet them constantly, and they've certainly never had anyone kneel over them while on their bed, or hug them. he simply didn't know what you were doing invading his space, and reacted out of reflex/instict to tell you "back off" Please do not lose hope, but understand that these are very different dogs than the other breeds who live with humnas from 8 weeks of age and understand our body/vocal language better than retired racers. I did the same thing with my Leyla in the first month (or two) of her adoption and she reacted exactly the same way. I took it personally at first and gave her space for a week. She did the same thing with a young boy who she didnt' know and who was warned to not hug her, but b/c he only knows his boxer who lets him do anything he wants, he didn't listen and he got the same growling & barking in his face. It was just a warning, not a precursor to anything worse. Fast forward one year, and she let me kneel over her and hug her with no reaction. She just needed time to settle in and realize this is her home, she is safe here, and for her to understand human behavior. Your pup will get comfortable and learn these things in time. Just let him come to you for petting, always reward him for it, never raise your voice or hit him, and he will learn to trust you too... don't give up on him... I know it's unsettling, and you may be afraid, but try to understand the life he's lived prior to your adoption, and just be patient with him... they REALLY are like no other breed... and that is why they are so special...

[Guest DragonflyDM]

Boomer is pretty laid back, but even a year or so later will spaz, bark or growl if he gets uncomfortable. I had someone pet him recently and they sort of bent over to very symbolicaly hug Boomer. He jumped and barked. Immediately he settled down, and she did it again in a different way. Again he jumped and barked growling.

 

He wasn't trying to hurt her, but he was letting her know to back off. She asked, "why is he angry with me? I am trying to show him love and being really careful."

 

"He is a dog," I said. "I don't like like it when the cat puts his paws on my face or licks my ear. Even though I know he does it because he likes me. Boomer doesn't feel comfortable with someone on top of him: person or cat or dog. It makes him uncomfortable. If he was really angry, I would be taking you to the hospital right now. So just respect his space and love him how he likes to be loved and not how you like to love him."

[OwnedBySummer]

Here's a link to article by Kathleen Gilley called No Fear No Pain, which you may find useful.

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

Here's a link to article by Kathleen Gilley called No Fear No Pain, which you may find useful.

This is probably one of the most important things I have ever read pertaining to new ownership of a retired racer. Please take the time to read the whole thing!

 

I also agree with other posters that your husband was invading the dogs personal space. My bf and I had similar problems with our boy, he snapped at my bf twice, and it was very scary. We almost returned him but I was dead set against it, as I knew it was our fault. So we worked with a trainer and behaviorist (the behaviorist was unnecessary in this situation, but made us feel better) because I didn't know the wealth of info on greytalk yet, but the advice you get here can save you a lot of money!

[Feisty49]

Every dog is different While some may take a long time to be comfortable being approached in any way, some don't take any time. Annie is so laid back I could remove food from her mouth the first day I adopted her. Seriously. She has no issues with anything I do whether it be cleaning her ears, brushing her teeth, or dremmeling her nails, and this was from the first week after adoption. She isn't thrilled with any of it, as evidenced by her nose almost touching the floor with sadness when I approach with the toothbrush, but she cooperates.

 

Having said this, I know that when I approach Annie, she prefers I do it from the side and have my first touch be at her neck to her mid-back. She has never growled at me. She has never expressed discomfort with me touching her face/head first, but she does sorta duck and it's obvious she's wishing my hand wasn't there. No big deal. I always touch her first on the neck, and then move to her ears, chin, cheeks, with a very gentle touch. I've had people ask if she was abused ("retired racer, so she must have been been abused") because she'll duck her head when approached head on. I explain the concept of approaching her (and most dogs) from the side because it is (probably) less threatening.

 

You mention your boy was watching you. If he was awake, he might have appeared to be watching you but off in a daydream of sorts. Sounds silly, but I know that my girl can be wide awake but staring off in the distance, much like a human does, and can be startled I if I don't let her know with words that I'm approaching her.

[Batmom]

Threatening position, nothing personal to your DH etc. Best practice is:

 

1. Let sleeping (or lying down) dogs lie.

 

2. Don't bend over the dog, especially from the front.

 

You can do those things to some dogs some of the time, but if you do them to all dogs all of the time ... one day you will be disappointed.

[greysmom]

You're over-reacting to a normal dog behavior a bit. If he had wanted to bite your DH he had ample opportunity and very well could have - PLEASE REMEMBER THAT HE DID NOT. There's nothing personal in what he did and he has done nothing to earn your distrust. The fault for this incident lies with the people involved NOT the dog!

 

Greyhounds often have issues regarding invasions of their personal space, whether they are asleep or whether they are awake. They have never had to deal with anyone entering their personal space without warning, and certainly not in such a confrontational way.

 

We have had a several very space/sleep aggressive greyhounds. One never got any better and two now sleep in bed with us. Train yourself to NEVER touch the dog without first gaining their full attention - call their name, toss a toy, quietly clap your hands and make *sure* he is awake and looks at you before you touch him. He should not be on your bed or on the furniture. Teach him a command such as "off" or "on your bed" to remove him. Never grab his collar. Luring him with a treat is much safer.

 

Also, I seriously doubt if your dog has been abused. Every dog will shy away when someone reaches for their head. Much better to start a petting session with a shoulder or butt rub - even UNDER the head is better than patting down on the top of it.

[Guest FinnsMom]

Threatening position, nothing personal to your DH etc. Best practice is:

 

 

2. Don't bend over the dog, especially from the front.

 

 

I second this.

 

I can't even count how many times I have said this to hubby and my son's. Finn will growl and make a sudden move, not to bite or attack, but get out the way and they are like ... what did I do. Every single time I've seen it happen my response is, how many times do you have to be told to not lean or bend over him that way. Seriously, drives me nuts.

[Guest kkaiser104]

Sounds like sleep startle. Let sleeping dogs lie, at least while he's adjusting, and then you can try to work on desensitizing him. Teddi will still snap/growl at people approaching his bed if he doesn't know them. We're working on it, but he's also pretty settled in. Give him time.

[Guest morgannicole]

I agree with all of the above posts. We have three greyhound (one brand new) and they all are so different in how you approach them.

 

Our first greyhound Callie settled in so quickly. After about the first week you could go lie with her, she would lie with you. You could brush her teeth, pet her belly..anything and she was always come and welcoming of all the attention. When we adopted our boy, Spitfire, it was a huge change and we had to get used to it. He had many of the same issues as lots of the other people have described here. You could not go over him, if you wanted to pet him on his dog bed he would get shifty eyed and go to a different bed. We learned very quickly that he wanted to have his own space and would come to you when he was ready. Believe me, I got growled at a few times, but it was just his warning and we learned that. After about 8 months or so he was a lot better, we could pet him in more areas on his body, he would let us come over to his bed to pet him etc. We started to allow him onto the couch like Callie, but noticed that he would growl at us when we wanted him to get off. He lost those privelages for quite some time. Fast forward to current day ( we have had him a total of 1 year and 8 months), he is an amazing dog. Such a cuddle buddy now, will jump up on the couch beside you for pets and snuggles. Will let you sleep beside him and has not growled at us since the couch incident one year prior.

 

Some dogs just take a bit longer, so don't worry, just read the suggested material and take some of the other great tips people have given. Give him his own space and time to learn to trust you and you will have an amazing greyhound for life

[Fruitycake]

Flinching or pulling back when you have a hand appear over your head isn't because he was abused. Some just don't like that kind of approach into their personal space. I have never been abused, but I absolutely hate having anyone touch my head or face - there are dogs who feel the same. He was merely telling your husband to back off, that he was uncomfortable, in a very clear method.

 

 

As others have indicated, if he had actually tried to bite, your husband would have been bitten. Dogs are really fast! He knew where he was and where your husband was and was merely making his protest clear.

 

I know it's scary - look at those chompers and how fast they can move! - but he was really nice to merely up the volume of his protest. At this point he doesn't like having someone approach him that way, either when he's in his bed or ever, so you both may just want to back off a bit and try to get him to come to you for loving. And don't push too much on him at once. (I've heard it said that it's better to give them a little loving and leave them wanting more than to "overstay your welcome" to the point where you annoy or bother them.)

[a_daerr]

Growling and snapping happens! A LOT. It's a form of communication- your dog was just letting your husband know he was uncomfortable with whatever he was doing. Please don't assume abuse. There are tons of threads on here about "sleep startle" and "space guarding." Until your grey has settled in and you've done some desensitization training, follow Batmom's two rules. Don't touch him when he's lying down, and don't reach over him.

[Guest Vers]

Both leaning over a dog and petting the tops of the head can be very intimidating to dogs. Mover used his voice and not his teeth -- that is a good dog. Please listen and respect the fact he is telling you what makes him uncomfortable so you can avoid doing those things. After he's been home a while, you might carefully work on desensitizing him to, as grey_dreams so accurately called it, primate moves. For example, my Simba loves and seeks out all sorts of petting from all sorts of people, but last week a guy tried to pet the top of his head with a big bulky ski glove on. Simba ducked it twice before I could say, it's the glove. Please either don't pet him or take the glove off.

 

An incredibly useful book to read to understand the differences between human and canine body language is Patricia McConnell's The Other End of the Leash.

[krissy]

Also, I seriously doubt if your dog has been abused. Every dog will shy away when someone reaches for their head. Much better to start a petting session with a shoulder or butt rub - even UNDER the head is better than patting down on the top of it.

 

I agree. Both my dogs including my 5.5 month old puppy who I have had since she was 8 weeks old will kind of flinch if you go right for the top of the head. It is generally advisable to start under the chin and then work your way around to the top of the head. It's just a very confrontational thing to do, so even though Summit actually likes having the top of his head smacked gently, he prefers that my initial reach in be for the chin, neck, back, etc. Clearly neither of my dogs have been abused and shown nothing but love and affection but it is a natural instinct to shy away from a hand reaching for them straight on. Heck, *I* don't appreciate someone reaching right for my face and will shy away. If I don't appreciate it, why would my dogs?

[Guest Giselle]

I see you're in Vallejo... I live in the Bay Area. If you'd like my help, I may be able to come over and help as long as a few criteria are met. PM me for details. I only suggest this because you seem to be hitting a few bumps in the road with your new pup, and I think in-person help (even for a little bit) would greatly help prevent issues later on.

[adudle00]

Thanks for a lot of great advice and encouragement; we are trying to do the best we can and will try these suggestions. He's normally a very relaxed dog and I was just very surprised by this behavior. We (at least I?) try not to come at him from above, but maybe since DH was kneeling down to him he felt uncomfortable at the moment. He wasn't sleeping though, just to clarify, nor on his bed. Maybe he was 'daydreaming' as somebody mentioned.

 

@ Giselle: I'm not able to PM anybody, it doesn't let me...perhaps it will let you PM me first?

[Guest Giselle]

Ooh, I think you need a minimum of 50 posts, first. Do you have an e-mail I can write to? I would advise not using the symbol "@" but write it as " AT " to prevent spammers. Too bad there isn't some other method by which we could contact each other without sharing it with everyone!

[adudle00]

Ooh, I think you need a minimum of 50 posts, first. Do you have an e-mail I can write to? I would advise not using the symbol "@" but write it as " AT " to prevent spammers. Too bad there isn't some other method by which we could contact each other without sharing it with everyone!

 

Sure you can send me message at adudle00 at gmail.

[a_daerr]

Just thinking about this guy and looking for an update.

[Hubcitypam]

Ok here is my take. Kneeling over a dog that is lying down still puts you above the dog and that is threatening to many breeds, not just greyhounds and is not a sign of prior abuse. Your dog was being a gentleman - if he wanted to bite he'd have done it. Listen to him.

 

Are you SURE that he wasn't sleeping?...because he wasn't in his bed but was in some other spot with his eyes wide open doesn't mean he was awake. Buddy sleeps with his eyes wide open about half the time as did my bridge guy Rex. When we get up and the other two stir I often look down at Buddy and think he's dead as he's watching them with fixed eyes. Turns out he is just in solid sleep with his eyes wide open. Buddy is a dog that you need to speak to approaching if prone, yours may be too.

..whoops - just saw it has been 3 weeks - we may have lost OP...but update would be nice.