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riverbosun

Heartworm ?

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Took Coyote in for his annual today and Interceptor is still on back order. She offered Sentintal with Progam (flea product) for the same price as interceptor but I'm nervous about this. I opted to go with Heartguard temporarily. Anyone else continuing to have problems getting Interceptor and does anyone have experience with the Sentinal/Program product?


Barbara
Akon and Abe
"If you want to hear the patter of little feet, I'll put shoes on my dogs."
http://www.greyhoundadventures.org

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Guest Fasave

My vet has interceptor back in stock I notice a week or so ago. Can you get a script from your vet and take it to mine?

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Heartguard is NOT recommened for any greyhound (or sighthound). I would NOT give it, give the Sentinel. :(


Kim, Bruce, Larry (PTL LaRoach) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It) - missing my sweet Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011) and Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Chester (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway

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Heartguard is NOT recommened for any greyhound (or sighthound). I would NOT give it, give the Sentinel. :(

WHAT???? :huh:blink: Never in my life have I heard that. If Ivermectin (active ingredient for heartworms) was bad for greyhounds, there'd be very few greyhounds alive. Both Dr. Stack and my old vet told me that a greyhound could eat several boxes of Heartgard with no ill effects. Heartgard is not recommended for collies, shelties,and some other herding dogs.

 

What is the basis for your saying no Heartgard for sighthounds?

ETA - I just googled and came up with two hits on Ivermectin being bad for greyhounds. One was the Comfortis website (imagine that) and the other was a chicken forum.

Edited by Hubcitypam

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Guest KennelMom

Heartguard is NOT recommened for any greyhound (or sighthound). I would NOT give it, give the Sentinel. :(

 

Can you explain why? I've never heard that about Heartguard. The active ingredient is ivermectin...what racing kennels use...what we've always used, except the year before I met Ken and used Sentinel

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Bootsy is on ivermectin :unsure


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Christie and Bootsy (Turt McGurt and Gil too)

Loving and missing Argos & Likky, forever and ever.

~Old age means realizing you will never own all the dogs you wanted to. ~

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I've read it several times over the past few years and the vets where we take them say the same thing ... I guess there can be a bad reaction in some? At any rate, I would not give it and just give the Interceptor instead. I wouldn't take a risk :(

Edited by RaineysMom

Kim, Bruce, Larry (PTL LaRoach) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It) - missing my sweet Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011) and Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Chester (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway

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I think your vets are just trying to sell you on the more expensive Interceptor.

If you could post one or more of those articles maybe we (and our collective vets) could learn something.


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Guest KennelMom

But that's my point...WHAT RISK????? Any dog can have a reaction to any drug at any time. But that doesn't mean you never give them anything. Like Pam said, there wouldn't be many greyhounds around if Ivermectin were contraindicated in greyhounds. Collies and the like, yeah. I've definitely read that. But greyhounds? Or all sighthounds for that matter....no. Heartguard is fine for greyhounds. I'd be interested in reading documentation otherwise. Our vet, who has a very large sighthound practice (even above and beyond our own large crew) has no issues with ivermectin and, in fact, wrote us an RX for liquid ivermectin at one point. One of the vets studied under one of the authors of Care of the Racing Greyhound when he was in vet school (he proudly showed me his autographed copy :lol )

Edited by KennelMom

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Some of the ivermectin heartworm meds can cause problems for collies and collie-crosses--not for greyhounds.

 

Meanwhile, I'd love to buy the more expensive Interceptor...mainly because it's effective against a wider range of parasites than Heartgard Plus is. And Heartgard Plus gives both my dogs 24 hours of diarrhea. But my vet is still out of Interceptor, too.

Edited by KF_in_Georgia

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Kathy and Q (CRT Qadeer from Fuzzy's Cannon and CRT Bonnie) and
Jane (WW's Aunt Jane from Trent Lee and Aunt M); photos to come.

Missing Silver (5.19.2005-10.27.2016), Tigger (4.5.2007-3.18.2016),
darling Sam (5.10.2000-8.8.2013), Jacey-Kasey (5.19.2003-8.22.2011), and Oreo (1997-3.30.2006)

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She offered Sentintal with Progam (flea product) for the same price as interceptor but I'm nervous about this. I opted to go with Heartguard temporarily. Anyone else continuing to have problems getting Interceptor and does anyone have experience with the Sentinal/Program product?

 

As others have mentioned, Sentinel is safe and a good product. However, keep in mind that Program is only a flea birth control (keeps eggs from hatching), so it won't kill adult fleas your dog picks up but will keep you from getting an infestation in your house. Because of the added flea ingredient, Sentinel is significantly more expensive than Interceptor. If your vet offered it to you at the same price, I'd jump on it. LOL

 

Heartguard is NOT recommened for any greyhound (or sighthound). I would NOT give it, give the Sentinel. :(

 

While it seems that some vets believe this, it is a myth and just plain wrong. There is no reason that Heartgard is unsafe for greyhounds, or any sighthound for that matter. Heartgard is even safe for collies and other herding breeds that are sensitive to ivermectin. The ivermectin-sensitive herding breeds have a specific gene mutation (MDR-1) that allows ivermectin to cross the blood-brain barrier into the brain and cause neurologic signs. However, this sensitivity is dose dependent, which means it only causes problems over a certain dose of ivermectin. The amount of ivermectin in heartworm preventative is tiny, and well below the toxic dose even for sensitive collies. A collie would have to eat 10-20 tablets of Heartgard to have a problem.

 

I was curious about the origins of this unfounded myth about greyhounds/sighthounds and ivermectin, so I did a little research a while back. In the course of my research, I came across a post on a vet forum where a vet stated that her former boss "absolutely, positively insisted that sight hounds shouldn't get ivermectin." Another vet posted that "apparently sighthounds are closely related to the British herding breeds" and gave this link as a reference. This is what I posted in response:

 

-----

I've been hearing reports of vets who are saying that sighthounds, or more specifically greyhounds, shouldn't get ivermectin. As someone who is involved in greyhound adoption, I know that this isn't true for greyhounds (most racing kennels use liquid ivermectin for heartworm prevention). I came across this discussion in my search to try to figure out the source of this information.

 

From what I've been able to find, the only "sighthounds" that have been documented to have the MDR-1 mutation are long-haired whippets and silken windhounds. Both of these are fairly newly created, and somewhat controversial, breeds that go back to a whippet breeder who also had Shetland sheepdogs. He claimed that the "long-haired whippets" he produced were a throwback to a historic recessive gene for long hair in the whippet breed. Most in the whippet community feel that the dogs were whippet/sheltie mixes, and especially given the presence of the MDR-1 gene (and that long-haired purebred whippets don't exist), I'd say that makes more sense. Silken windhounds were created from a combination of borzoi, whippets, and long-haired whippets.

 

Here are a couple articles I found that were of interest. However, I still don't know why some vets think that greyhounds can't tolerate ivermectin.

http://www.pnas.org/.../11725.full.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20655253

-----

 

The articles above discuss breeds in which the MDR-1 gene has been found. It has not been identified in greyhounds or any other sighthound breed other than the above mentioned long-haired whippets and silken windhounds that are suspected to have sheltie in their background.

 

As far as I'm aware, I believe all the track kennels use liquid ivermectin as heartworm preventative for their greyhounds. When dosing with the liquid ivermectin, you usually end up giving many times the dose of ivermectin that is found in Heartgard. I've heard a commonly recommended dose of 0.1 ml/10 lbs, and with this dosage, the dog is getting about 20-30 times the amount of ivermectin in a dose of Heartgard.

 

ETA - I just googled and came up with two hits on Ivermectin being bad for greyhounds. One was the Comfortis website (imagine that) and the other was a chicken forum.

 

Just curious, can you provide the link for the Comfortis site that said ivermectin was bad for greyhounds.


Jennifer &

Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On),

Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice

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Weren't there some warnings about increased risk of adverse reaction when combining Comfortis & off-label use of ivermectin, such as using cattle Ivomec for heartworm prevention? Don't think this applied to Comfortis & Heartguard combined. Could that be the source of info on the site Pam saw?

 

Also, I don't want to sound mean but in this discussion it doesn't really help to say you've heard warnings about Greyhounds & Heartguard if you cannot cite the source with an explanation of the risk. jjing gave a good example of someone misinterpreting data & applying it to sighthounds in general. I have heard someone say Greys ivermectin is more risky with Greys but claimed it was because Greys are more sensitive in general, evidence being their greater sensitivity to some anesthesia. That is simply not appropriate reasoning & in this case has led to person to an inaccurate conclusion.

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Weren't there some warnings about increased risk of adverse reaction when combining Comfortis & off-label use of ivermectin, such as using cattle Ivomec for heartworm prevention? Don't think this applied to Comfortis & Heartguard combined. Could that be the source of info on the site Pam saw?

You're right - my bad :blush


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JJNg, thanks for your very informative post! From my reading of the PNAS paper you linked to, I'd agree it seems highly likely that the mdr1 mutation was introduced into long-haired whippets via the sheltie. It's quite clear from the paper that this is a recent mutation in sighthounds, vs. an ancient one in the herding breeds.


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Merlin (Heathers Wizard), Mina (Where's Rebecca), and Mae the Galga - three crazy dogs in the house of M

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JJNg, thanks for your very informative post! From my reading of the PNAS paper you linked to, I'd agree it seems highly likely that the mdr1 mutation was introduced into long-haired whippets via the sheltie. It's quite clear from the paper that this is a recent mutation in sighthounds, vs. an ancient one in the herding breeds.

But it should be stressed that it was found in only two sighthound breeds, Long haired Whippets & Silken Windhounds, both of whom have some measure of collie ancestry.

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JJNg, thanks for your very informative post! From my reading of the PNAS paper you linked to, I'd agree it seems highly likely that the mdr1 mutation was introduced into long-haired whippets via the sheltie. It's quite clear from the paper that this is a recent mutation in sighthounds, vs. an ancient one in the herding breeds.

But it should be stressed that it was found in only two sighthound breeds, Long haired Whippets & Silken Windhounds, both of whom have some measure of collie ancestry.

Yes, absolutely - I almost put 'sighthound' in quotes for that very reason. And in the case of the silken windhund, the mutant allele almost certainly came from the long-haired whippet. Basically my take on the paper is that there is no evidence that this particular mdr1 mutation arose independently in sighthounds per se, nor that it is present in other sighthound breeds.

 

Sorry for the thread-jack but I really appreciated JJNg's thoughtful commentary :). To get back on point, sorry, no help re Sentinal/Program - we use Heartgard Plus here!

Edited by greygeek

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Merlin (Heathers Wizard), Mina (Where's Rebecca), and Mae the Galga - three crazy dogs in the house of M

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Heartguard here, too, along with K9 Advantix. I'd prefer to just use Revolution but K9 Advantix gives me some tick control and Revolution doesn't.


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Lisa B.

My beautiful Summer - to her forever home May 1, 2010 Summer

Certified therapy dog team with St. John Ambulance

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