Help-Serious Problem

[krissy]

Everyone has dog behaviour issues that they don't want to deal with, whether because we feel we are not able to adequately address them or because for whatever reason they just aren't issues we want to deal with. It sounds like you tried to be a responsible adopter and let the group know what your limitations were, to avoid this exact scenario of having to return a dog. I don't think they would (and certainly hope they wouldn't) hold that against you. I hope they will applaud you for once again being a responsible owner and for caring about the needs/welfare of everyone involved (the dog, yourself, your cats, your community). There is someone out there willing and able to deal with this dog's issues, and there is a dog out there waiting for you with none of these issues but maybe some other ones that you are able to work on. Best of luck.

 

Edited for grammar.

Edited April 17, 2012 by krissy

[Guest saabqueen7]

Thanks so much! I cried again, just from the relief of having some understanding and kind words. I have also been posting on a fb greyhound site and have met a much more hostile and accusing response from most of the posters. I have tried to glean out the good advice, but it mostly just made me feel worse. I am glad I have this group. Thanks again. I will certainly let you know what happens. Right now, I am just trying to keep my head above water. He was supposed to be "fine, no problem" with crating, but he howled and barked the entire night, so I got very little sleep. I can't put him in my room with me since that's where the cats are! I may just sleep on the couch near him tonight and see if that helps. All in all, not one of my best weeks.

[BootsyCollins]

If it makes you feel any better at all, I don't have what it takes to handle a dog like that, either, and if I were in your position, I'd return him to the group. I'd feel sad and I'd feel guilty about it, but I'd do it, because somewhere is the perfect home for him. Also, somewhere is the perfect dog for you, and from what you've said here, he isn't it. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[KickReturn]

You should not feel the slightest shame, guilt, or remorse. I have a different approach than many here. While I have profound admiration for the commitment of so many Grey owners, I am unwilling to make the sacrifices that so many do. I could not and would not have a dog with issues. These are animals with serious capacity to cause damage. In fact I will only accept what I consider a (for me) perfect dog, not because I can't handle it but because the dog has joined my pack an must fit in. If I were you I would not beat yourself up over the issue. Return him and start again - save your love and care for a dog that will bring you happiness, not trepidation.

 

FWIW my boy is a bounce who was miss-treated for a year after leaving the track. He is an angel in all respects - They are out there and they need you - keep looking.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

One thing you must realize, that ANY dog you adopt, be it a puppy or an adult will have "issues". You cannot get around it. If you don't want an animal that you have to put some effort into, then don't get any animal. I am sorry that I am not all hugs and kisses and happy for you, but I look at things more from a standpoint of when you make a commitment, you must stand by your commitment. This type of thing comes up time and time again,

and a majority of the time if the person would just take a step back, relax and give the hound time, things usually work out for the best. It is when people have a knee-jerk reaction to give the hound back that is irresponsible in my opinion. But then again, I look at these things from the perspective of the hound who has no idea what the rules are and what is expected of them.

 

 

The things in life that you have to work hard for are usually the best things worth having.

 

 

Chad

[silverfish]

 

 

Feeling grief & sadness is understandable, justified. Feeling humiliation might be unavoidable but it is not justified. You have been handed the type of dog you already knew was not appropriate for you. Dogs do sometimes cheat on their exams so sometimes end up in the wrong home despite the adoption group's best efforts.

 

This is all true. I don't believe the people who told me what my dog was like were lying to me, but perhaps he hadn't met the challenges in their home than he does in mine, or perhaps he simply didn't have time there to 'blossom'.

 

One thing you must realize, that ANY dog you adopt, be it a puppy or an adult will have "issues". You cannot get around it. If you don't want an animal that you have to put some effort into, then don't get any animal. I am sorry that I am not all hugs and kisses and happy for you, but I look at things more from a standpoint of when you make a commitment, you must stand by your commitment. This type of thing comes up time and time again,

and a majority of the time if the person would just take a step back, relax and give the hound time, things usually work out for the best. It is when people have a knee-jerk reaction to give the hound back that is irresponsible in my opinion. But then again, I look at these things from the perspective of the hound who has no idea what the rules are and what is expected of them.

 

 

The things in life that you have to work hard for are usually the best things worth having.

 

 

Chad

 

Chad, there is a lot of truth in what you say, and I'm all for living up to commitments and not giving up too soon. However, the flip side of this is that if you have asked for a particular type of dog and you've been told that the dog on offer will fit your abilities and lifestyle, then it is unreasonable to expect people to cope with whatever he is really like and just bite the bullet.

 

For one thing, many people do know their own limitations and it is a wise person who stays within them. And for another, an inexperienced person, or a person who doesn't have the personal resources to cope with a difficult dog (which this one certainly is if he lunges at children who are doing nothing more than walking quietly past!) may damage both the dog and their own mental health if they try to do so. Not only that, but if the dog then ends up being returned anyway, he'll have even MORE issues after the failed attempt and he'll be even more bewildered and confused having lived with a family for weeks or months.

 

And worse, a heavy price may come to be paid for the 'commitment' if he ends up biting a child or killing a cat.

 

Saying that a person should take the dog and live with it, whether or not it fits the description or fits with their abilities is like signing up for a three year university course advertised as 'English Literature' and finding on your first day that it's actually 'Rocket Science'. Would you like to be told, 'oh well, sorry, but you signed up - where's your commitment? Just do your best - it'll get better, if you work really hard at it'? That would be terrible, right? And there are no living creatures involved there.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Personally I dont subscribe to the doom and gloom of this dog being a cat killer and child attacker. In fact I dont subscribe to that (child attacker) for virtually ANY greyhound. Yes one or two out of 20,000 may be that way, but believe me, the group that gave her this particular hound would be able to identify that type of hound. I am willing to be this hound simply has had a few inapropriate responses and the owner freaked out. I see it time and time again, buyers remorse. That is why I am suggesting that the owner step back, take a deep breath and give the hound a month or so to calm down.

 

I do understand the point of the person asking for a hound that has no issues and is expecting a turn-key hound, but really what do you expect from a hound that hasnt been fostered for a single day? Its like taking a rattlesnake as a pet and then being suprised when you get bit.

 

If you want a hound that has no issues, look for a group that does long-term fostering. That will be about the only way you can really get a good idea of the personality that you are going to get. A hound fresh from the track will have general personlity traits known, but there will be growing pains and things you will have to teach the hound and work through, its just the way it is.

[jaym1]

It seems like there are hundreds, if not thousands of greys out for adoption that do not have these specific issues that she is dealing with that she specifically asked the adoption agency to weed out, because she knows, specifically, that she is not equipped to deal with. All dogs have issues, but not necessarily these issues, and she was being a responsible owner to highlight these facts. Nowhere did she say she wanted a perfect dog -- in fact, she listed the characteristics that adoption agencies typically claim to have assessed, and she clearly got a dog that does not fit any of those criteria. It seems like a bit of a stretch to turn her responsible approach to her limits into an abandonment of responsibility. I just got my second days ago. He is already completely socialized, loves other dogs, is completely gentle and non-aggressive, loves his crate, and has no noticeable anxiety issues. This is the type of dog she wanted, and they're not really that hard to find.

 

The thought of giving a dog back is heart-rending. I went through it with my first (but ended up keeping him), so I can understand what the original OP is going through. It's one thing if he was proving tough to house train, or was otherwise presenting fairly innocuous challenges. But from her description it sounds like this dog isn't just doing one of the things she asked the agency to weed out, he's basically doing ALL of them. I think she should return the dog as soon as possible. It will be the best thing for all parties in the end.

Edited April 17, 2012 by jaym1

[Guest Roadtripper]

I'm glad you feel supported by people here, and sorry it's been such a hard week. This site has been a lifesaver for me, too.

 

Regardless of what you decide, don't feel guilty or humiliated. Maybe this grey was supposed to come to you for this very reason--you helped uncover some serious issues in a short time that had been missed by others. Maybe if he'd gone to a different home something far worse could've happened. Instead, now the adoption group & trainer can put together a plan to help him adjust to retired life & be a greyt addition to someone's home. Also, this may help the group know they need to be more careful about temperament testing, placement, and letting new adopters know to go slow with their greys.

 

Maybe once you meet with the trainer, you'll feel enough assurance that you feel good about keeping him. Or maybe you were just meant to be his temporary foster mum in his journey to his forever family. Things happen for a reason. I'm just sorry it's so hard to go thru.

 

Wishing all the best,

Amy

[Brandiandwe]

A few thoughts. Keep in mind that it is as easy to love the hound that is 'right' for you as it is the one which isn't. So if you are going to return him (and I might give him a little longer the 24 hours, say a couple of weeks at least), it is better to do it earlier rather than later on because you will fall in love with him. Second, Chad is right in that all dogs have issues. However, everyone has issues that they are prepared to deal with. I think about it like horses. The issues I'm prepared to deal with are bone lazy, a bit stupid, ugly and a bit elderly and so needing supplements. What I am not prepared to deal with are hot, fizzy, spooky or unduly athletic. Same with hounds. I'm prepared to live with issues of high prey drive, energy, very vocal and somewhat standoffish and then, in the other one, occasional incontinence and submissive urination, bouncy, somewhat spooky and both of them very bonded to me, because they have other qualities which make them right. You are going to find the right hound, be it this one once he settles down or another one.

[greysandmollie]

Personally I dont subscribe to the doom and gloom of this dog being a cat killer and child attacker. In fact I dont subscribe to that (child attacker) for virtually ANY greyhound. Yes one or two out of 20,000 may be that way, but believe me, the group that gave her this particular hound would be able to identify that type of hound. I am willing to be this hound simply has had a few inapropriate responses and the owner freaked out. I see it time and time again, buyers remorse. That is why I am suggesting that the owner step back, take a deep breath and give the hound a month or so to calm down.

 

I do understand the point of the person asking for a hound that has no issues and is expecting a turn-key hound, but really what do you expect from a hound that hasnt been fostered for a single day? Its like taking a rattlesnake as a pet and then being suprised when you get bit.

 

If you want a hound that has no issues, look for a group that does long-term fostering. That will be about the only way you can really get a good idea of the personality that you are going to get. A hound fresh from the track will have general personlity traits known, but there will be growing pains and things you will have to teach the hound and work through, its just the way it is.

 

And this is helpful how?? I have had four hounds..two directly from the track and they were by far the easiest ones. Neither struggled to learn the ropes and one of them was my first and only pet for many years. Yes, probably best for the OP to adopt from a group that fosters. BUT if this person feels that this dog is too much for them to handle then it probably is...maybe not by what you would deal with or I would but what THEY are equipped to handle. They adopted a dog and hopefully will find one that fits their lifestyle better.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Really, you read my post and don't understand my suggestions? If you want to personally attack me at least do it, don't make rediculous remarks. When someone comes here and has questions about things such as how to introduce cats, then within hours suddenly is giving the hound back, I am going to call them on it. I am not going to be all sweet and nice when someone blames the group saying accusatory things. Groups do the best they can, and adopters should do just as much. Let's start holding adopters to the same standard as we are expecting from the groups.

[Guest cruzNhounds]

Really, you read my post and don't understand my suggestions? If you want to personally attack me at least do it, don't make rediculous remarks. When someone comes here and has questions about things such as how to introduce cats, then within hours suddenly is giving the hound back, I am going to call them on it. I am not going to be all sweet and nice when someone blames the group saying accusatory things. Groups do the best they can, and adopters should do just as much. Let's start holding adopters to the same standard as we are expecting from the groups.

 

 

[silverfish]

I have had four hounds..two directly from the track and they were by far the easiest ones. Neither struggled to learn the ropes and one of them was my first and only pet for many years.

 

This is true here too! I've adopted a stray greyhound from a generic animal shelter who had a TON of issues, no known history and knew nothing about living in a house because he'd been raised by Travellers. He was the easiest, sweetest, most quick to learn and eager to please of all my hounds. I could safely let that dog off lead in any company and he was afraid of cats.

 

Direct from the trainer I've had three hounds, all pretty much 'what you see is what you get'. All with their own quirks, some of them difficult, I'll grant you, but we dealt with them. And I've had two who were fostered: one a long-term foster who, really, I wondered if they were talking about the same dog I had adopted, although he really was a very sweet dog and we loved him from the first day.

 

The other (the one I mentioned earlier) was a shorter-term foster about whom they were almost as wrong as it's possible to be! He does not fit well in our household and the only reason I kept him was that since he was nine years old, black, unprepossesing, untrustworthy with smaller dogs and cats etc, and was very growly with me at first and wouldn't let me touch his feet or his mouth, his fate would have been to live in the kennel block forever once all this was known, and with so many 'nicer' dogs to choose from. This dog has been a pain, to be blunt, but I'm an experienced owner, and while he still makes life difficult for my tripod, he no longer growls at me and lets me do pretty much what I need to without fuss. It's taken me the best part of a year to get where we are, and we now love the old fart to bits (of course!) but in an inexperienced home, and with a different trainer I really hate to think what would have happened to him.

 

What a dog is like in one home is often way different to what he is like in another. I've heard it often here, and it's certainly been my experience.

 

Really, you read my post and don't understand my suggestions? If you want to personally attack me at least do it, don't make rediculous remarks. When someone comes here and has questions about things such as how to introduce cats, then within hours suddenly is giving the hound back, I am going to call them on it. I am not going to be all sweet and nice when someone blames the group saying accusatory things. Groups do the best they can, and adopters should do just as much. Let's start holding adopters to the same standard as we are expecting from the groups.

 

I'm curious - do you personally know the group which gave the OP this dog? I'm asking because you seem to know more than has been written here.

 

I would say that if someone has been given a hound having asked for one who will be safe to live with cats (albeit after some work) it is quite reasonable to come here asking for help on how to accomplish the introduction and managed things until he is used to them. If that person then discovers very quickly that the dog they have is not likely to be cat-trainable after all, and also has other issues which will make life difficult for the rest of that dog's life, I would say it is also quite reasonable for that person to ask advice here and/or give the dog back and see if they can get one which is more suited to their lifestyle.

 

Here in England dogs are taken back often. Trainers, foster carers and animal shelters all stress (as the new owner leaves with their dog) that if there are any problems to call and help will be on hand, but if necessary, they will take the dog back. We tend to take the dog back with no questions and no blame except in the more dire of circumstances (I'm talking neglect or abuse) because we want the dog back in one piece, so to speak, and we want that adopter to take another, easier dog. We want to move dogs into homes. If one dog isn't right, likely another one will be.

 

Bottom line is that we try desperately hard to find adopters. We love adopters - they are great people! They want to give an unwanted dog a chance of home life, and they want a dog to love. Why punish them if they don't find the right dog first time?

[Ragsysmum]

He really doesn't sound like the sort of dog you asked for or were expecting. If he isn't and doesn't seem likely to fit in your household I would return him sooner rather than later. Dogs can act very differently in one home from how they do in another (as I and Silverfish well know)and your lad may quickly find a home where he settles better. There are plenty of lovely easy hounds in your country I am sure, as there are over here, and there will be one which will fit better into your situation. I have fostered and adopted many over the years and had little trouble with any of them even directly from the track kennels here, so I am sure things must be the same over there. At the kennels where I regularly help out, the dogs which are returned within a couple of weeks settle straight back into kennel life without any stress and can more easily be rehomed. Those which have lived in an unsuitable situation for weeks can often show behaviour on their return to kennels, which makes it harder to rehome them again.

[jaym1]

I am not going to be all sweet and nice when someone blames the group saying accusatory things.

 

Isn't there some middle ground between "being all sweet and nice" and bluntly chastising someone when they have pretty much gone through the adoption process by the book in an attempt to guilt them into keeping a dog that is clearly not suited for them? At worst she's made some of the simple mistakes that pretty much any non-expert adopter would make. But frankly, I know many people who have made those same mistakes without instantly turning their hounds into non-child safe, non-cat-safe, non-small-dog-safe risks.

 

She hasn't identified or outed any adoption group here, not is this thread really about them. This is a conscientious person trying to adopt a greyhound, which is kind of the whole point here. It just doesn't seem productive to grind this person down and to reply in pointed tones.

[kudzu]

When someone comes here and has questions about things such as how to introduce cats, then within hours suddenly is giving the hound back, I am going to call them on it. I am not going to be all sweet and nice when someone blames the group saying accusatory things. Groups do the best they can, and adopters should do just as much. Let's start holding adopters to the same standard as we are expecting from the groups.

She hasn't given back the hound as far as I can tell. I noticed nothing derogatory or accusatory in what OP has said about the group. In fact the points out their follow up care. All she has said is that she asked for a dog without certain traits that she feels is incompatible with her living arrangements & beyond the limits of her ability to handle but appears to have ended up with a hound who has those very problems. That is stating the facts as she sees them. There was nothing critical or negative in the tone of her writing in regards to the group that I could perceive.

 

Accusatory would be if I said you sound quite cavalier about this whole thing. You appear to give the OP absolutely no credit whatsoever for knowing what is within her limits of ability. You seem to work hard to read unpleasantness into everything she has written. If a child gets bitten or another pet injured you will not be the one dealing with the repurcussions. What say we try to show as much respect to the OP as we do the group. Why don't we acknowledge that all the humans involved here are... well, they're humans subject to all the mistakes, miscalculations, worries, concerns, etc, that all humans have. Something somewhere has gone amiss in the OP's adoption & now she is reaching out for help, trying to understand what can or should be done. Right now, you are not helping. Yep, I think that's what accusatory really is. Y'all have a greyt day now.

[silverfish]

Dogs can act very differently in one home from how they do in another (as I and Silverfish well know)

 

So true!

 

You'll be pleased to know that Jeffie (as Ranger is now known) is a very happy dog in our home and he and Sid do get along well, even if he's taking a toll on Sid's health with his puppy-like clumsiness (Sid's really stiff these days after being body-slammed, which short of keeping them separated all the time is going to happen from time to time). He simply doesn't seem to want to grow up, and he's running out of time on that one. He's a funny guy, too, and very affectionate.

 

Sorry for the slight detour. Back to the original question ...

[krissy]

She hasn't given back the hound as far as I can tell. I noticed nothing derogatory or accusatory in what OP has said about the group. In fact the points out their follow up care. All she has said is that she asked for a dog without certain traits that she feels is incompatible with her living arrangements & beyond the limits of her ability to handle but appears to have ended up with a hound who has those very problems. That is stating the facts as she sees them. There was nothing critical or negative in the tone of her writing in regards to the group that I could perceive.

 

Accusatory would be if I said you sound quite cavalier about this whole thing. You appear to give the OP absolutely no credit whatsoever for knowing what is within her limits of ability. You seem to work hard to read unpleasantness into everything she has written. If a child gets bitten or another pet injured you will not be the one dealing with the repurcussions. What say we try to show as much respect to the OP as we do the group. Why don't we acknowledge that all the humans involved here are... well, they're humans subject to all the mistakes, miscalculations, worries, concerns, etc, that all humans have. Something somewhere has gone amiss in the OP's adoption & now she is reaching out for help, trying to understand what can or should be done. Right now, you are not helping. Yep, I think that's what accusatory really is. Y'all have a greyt day now.

 

Completely off topic. But you are officially my hero.

[kamsmom]

saabqueen - I have noticed a few things that are similar to another forum and I think you may be the same person? Do you live in the McKinney area? If so, I live in Plano. I would be more than happy to help you with whatever you need. Please don't hesitate to get in touch with me.

[sweetdogs]

Not every dog is right for every situation. And sometimes, dogs lie. The only requirement I had before I got my first greyhound (who was also my first dog ever) was cat-safe-ness. Didn't care about color, age, size, gender - just my cats. The group gave me the HIGHEST prey drive dog - he had passed the test they used back then, but he lied. I worked with him for 3 weeks with zero progress & then had a near miss with my cat (he was wearing his muzzle & slid on the kitchen floor, allowing the cat to escape), I called the group, very upset. They found him a new cat-hating home within a week & brought me the most small animal safe dog ever. I did feel guilty but I didn't blame him or the group. Truly wasn't my fault either. It just was.

 

It sounds like your boy lied too. Doesn't make him a bad dog, just not right for you. Call your group (if you haven't already) & let them know. That's part of what they're there for. If you can hook up with other greyhound owners locally, do it. Don't be shy. Forcing a hound to stay in a home he is unsuited for is miserable (& sometimes dangerous) for everyone. Best wishes for both of you.

[EnzaFerrari]

She hasn't given back the hound as far as I can tell. I noticed nothing derogatory or accusatory in what OP has said about the group. In fact the points out their follow up care. All she has said is that she asked for a dog without certain traits that she feels is incompatible with her living arrangements & beyond the limits of her ability to handle but appears to have ended up with a hound who has those very problems. That is stating the facts as she sees them. There was nothing critical or negative in the tone of her writing in regards to the group that I could perceive.

 

Accusatory would be if I said you sound quite cavalier about this whole thing. You appear to give the OP absolutely no credit whatsoever for knowing what is within her limits of ability. You seem to work hard to read unpleasantness into everything she has written. If a child gets bitten or another pet injured you will not be the one dealing with the repurcussions. What say we try to show as much respect to the OP as we do the group. Why don't we acknowledge that all the humans involved here are... well, they're humans subject to all the mistakes, miscalculations, worries, concerns, etc, that all humans have. Something somewhere has gone amiss in the OP's adoption & now she is reaching out for help, trying to understand what can or should be done. Right now, you are not helping. Yep, I think that's what accusatory really is. Y'all have a greyt day now.

 

Completely off topic. But you are officially my hero.

 

I concur.

[tbhounds]

She hasn't given back the hound as far as I can tell. I noticed nothing derogatory or accusatory in what OP has said about the group. In fact the points out their follow up care. All she has said is that she asked for a dog without certain traits that she feels is incompatible with her living arrangements & beyond the limits of her ability to handle but appears to have ended up with a hound who has those very problems. That is stating the facts as she sees them. There was nothing critical or negative in the tone of her writing in regards to the group that I could perceive.

 

Accusatory would be if I said you sound quite cavalier about this whole thing. You appear to give the OP absolutely no credit whatsoever for knowing what is within her limits of ability. You seem to work hard to read unpleasantness into everything she has written. If a child gets bitten or another pet injured you will not be the one dealing with the repurcussions. What say we try to show as much respect to the OP as we do the group. Why don't we acknowledge that all the humans involved here are... well, they're humans subject to all the mistakes, miscalculations, worries, concerns, etc, that all humans have. Something somewhere has gone amiss in the OP's adoption & now she is reaching out for help, trying to understand what can or should be done. Right now, you are not helping. Yep, I think that's what accusatory really is. Y'all have a greyt day now.

 

Completely off topic. But you are officially my hero.

Mine too

[Tallgreydogmom]

Just a suggestion, if this greyhound does not work out. Ask for a return that is all settled in and knows the ropes. There are so many of this type greyhound being returned due to a chance in the family's situation. They know about cats and are experienced in life that the greyhound right off the track does not have.

[Guest FullMetalFrank]

I hope that your group is understanding and lets you know that what you are doing is in the dog's best interest, too. I would hope that they will help you out and choose another dog who will be a better match. Groups do themselves no favors by guilting adopters when they send them home with a dog who isn't a good fit and the dog comes back; it's not best for the dogs, the adopters, or greyhound adoption in general. The dog will be fine; think of his time with you as a little foster time. Good luck to you.