Walking In Circles And Disoriented

[mangos_mom]

Looking for some advice for a friend this time. Her girl, Diana, is acting strangely. I was out with her and her dogs on Sunday all day and didn't see anything off then. Di was on leash with me pretty much the whole afternoon. Di is 9, fit and well taken care of. She did show elevated kidney values a few months ago at her annual exam and has been on k/d since then at the vet's request.

 

Here's what Di's mom told me this morning:

 

When I took her out for a walk she kept walking in circles and seemed disoriented. Of course I took her to the ER vet who thought perhaps Di has an inner ear infection. She put her on an antibiotic and gave her a fairly strong anti-inflammatory. we ent home and Di slept pretty well until about 2AM when she got up to move and she began crying and breathing like she was going to die. I slept with her all night and we made it to this AM. Di ate, whizzed and pooped this AM. I took her to Dr Ellis this AM and he wants to treat Di with dramamine and the antibiotic the Er vet gave me. But...he wants to re-evaluate her every 24 hours or so for any chnages both good or bad.

 

And when I asked if she was any better this morning:

 

Somewhat on the breathing heavy and crying. I just think she does not know what is going on. It's really hard to wartch her since the Di I know is sooo physically aware. I am just trying to piece this all together. THis happened 1 other time when Di was 5 or 6 but...whatever the ER vet gave her straightened her right out. Dr Ellis says IF she had a brain tumor then you would think it would have showed up before this. My probelm is I have been feeling for about 3-6 months now like Di was not herself but...there was nothing specific to describ. After they found the high protein in her urine I figured all was well. Of course this circle thing could be part of the kidney diseas she might have.

 

Any thoughts would be welcome. Di's mom is worried and I don't have any experience that would give me any idea of what this might be. I figured someone here might have experienced symptoms like this before, though, so I thought I would ask. Thanks, all!

[macoduck]

Vestibular disorder? Vestibular can come and go.

 

Any back/forth motion of the eyes? (Nystagmus)

[msjpk]

My first thought is Cushings Disease.

Usually, skin becomes very thin, losing control of urine, walking in circles, not knowing where they are.

I had a collie who had Cushings and in its later stages experiences seizures. I would insist on blood tests, Cushings can be controlled when caught early-

good luck and keep us posted.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Isnt higher protein normal in greyhounds?

 

Creatinine

 

Greyhound: 0.8 - 1.6

Other dogs: 0.0 - 1.0

Greyhound creatinines run higher than other breeds as a function of their large lean muscle mass. A study at the Auburn University College of Veterinary Medicine found that 80% of retired racing Greyhounds they sampled had creatinine values above the standard reference range for other dogs. As a lone finding, an elevated creatinine is not indicative of impending kidney failure. If the BUN and urinalysis are normal, so is the elevated creatinine.

 

Do I have protein and creatine mixed up?

[dante2zoe]

My whippet had the vestibular syndrome earlier this winter. It took several days before he stopped staggering around in circles and being completely panicked. His eyes would dart back and forth to the side that he would stagger.

[hikinghounds]

These are also symptoms of neurological problems in the brain, maybe encephalitis. My boy had these symptoms last year and it was encephalitis. I almost lost him. It's often mistaken as vestibular disease if a vet isn't familiar with encephalitis. I sure would ask about it or see a neurologist quickly.

[Devotion]

I would think a vestibular issue. However, my grey too had encephalitis; she went from being completely fine to status epilepticus in a very short period of time. we are still fighting....8 months later.

 

Dramamine will help the vestibular symptoms of circling. Is a head tilt present or nystagmus? Is there lots of leaning?

 

I do think I'd see a Neurologist. anything neurological makes one disoriented. But so do liver and kidney problems.

 

Best of luck to your friend. It's a scary road, I know. Please keep us posted.

[JJNg]

Lots of good idea already, and I just wanted to add the possibility of high blood pressure causing unusual behavior. Since you mentioned protein in her urine, has she had a urine protein:creatinine ratio done, and has her blood pressure been checked?

[mangos_mom]

Just talked with Di's mom. She's no worse this am, but no better either. She's still circling, still knuckling under on the right front foot. She's eating/drinking/peeing/pooing fine. Janis says that the odd thing is that she's nesting furiously before laying down, scratching at the bed like she just can't get it fluffed up enough. Then she cries when she goes to lay down.

 

Janis is working on getting an appt with a neurologist, and is talking daily with her vet. I'm sharing all your replies with her.

 

Her vet hasn't done urine tests on her this time. And they can't check her blood pressure because she's a nervous nellie at the vet's office, so they don't get a good reading.

[Guest arlosmom]

Vestibular disorder? Vestibular can come and go.

 

Any back/forth motion of the eyes? (Nystagmus)

 

 

I would also guess vestibular disease. It does come and go but it actually put my Schnauzer on the ground she was so dizzy but after a while she would sort of straighten out. Vestibular disease is actually a tumor on the nerve that goes from the ear to the brain. How is her hearing?

[msjpk]

any more update?

[mangos_mom]

Update from Di's mom this morning. She continues to improve in little bits. The more I hear the more I'm thinking stroke. Di's mom is still pursuing getting an appt with a neurologist, though, because she wants to know what caused it.

 

Di seems a bit more alert this AM and I think her crying is actually her "talking" We walked ALL the way around 2 or 3 buildings and she walked mostly straight with a little help from me. She found treats when I threw them on the floor for her and she looks at me more when I am talking to her. Perhaps rest is helping but keep all the wonderful healing coming to me baby girl. I think she is getting frustrated because she knows what she wants to do but just cannot figure out how to get there.

[robinw]

So glad she's doing better!

[tbhounds]

As mentioned above-- because she's losing protein in her urine a UPC should be done. Dogs with proteinuria are predisposed to throw a clot (stoke).

[mangos_mom]

As mentioned above-- because she's losing protein in her urine a UPC should be done. Dogs with proteinuria are predisposed to throw a clot (stoke).

 

I will pass this on. She has asked her vet directly if this episode is related to the possible kidney issues and he has said no, but that doesn't mean that's the final word.

[tbhounds]

Of course I meant stroke--- not stoke!! :-)

The reason they are more prone to a thrombus event is because if a dog is losing protein (albumin) in the urine he's also losing antithrombin 3--an anti-clotting factor.

Edited March 2, 2012 by tbhounds

[Guest Adrianne]

We had a little Cocker Spaniel mix that developed an inner ear infection once. We thought Griffey had had a stroke; she walked in circles, was off balance, and very disoriented. This was about 12 years ago, and I don't remember the medicine the vet gave her, but it did take several days before it cleared up.

[mangos_mom]

Di is getting better every day. And she is going to a neurologist tomorrow morning. But Janis also found info on inner ear infections that describes the exact same symptoms as Di has. The vet has her on antibiotics already, so hopefully, if that is what it is, she's on the way to getting better. She had a bad infection 3 or so years ago and had a spell like this but she recovered within a day. That's what's worrying Janis so much, and her vet is sort of remaining non-commital about it, which is frustrating.

[Guest greygirls2]

Has she been tested for tick borne diseases? These can all be symptoms. You can read the post Quite a scare.......about my son's grey. The diagnosis was naplasmosis and with doxy he is doing well and fully recovered.

[mangos_mom]

Sorry I left you all hanging this weekend. GU had their booth out at a big festival this weekend and Janis (Di's mom) and I manage the booth at events. By the time we got home each night I was too tired to even try to log on.

 

I was staying with Janis as she lives closer to where the event was, so I got to see first hand what Di is doing. Each day brought improvement, but you would have to know Di really well to see some of it. She gets really nervous when she is out of her "safe" area, which is understandable. She is responsive, though, totally to her mom and she responded to me as well. She is still walking in circles to get from point A to point B, but she walked a straight line every once in awhile. She will also walk almost straight if another dog is beside her, or if you keep her on a shortened leash. Between Friday and yesterday, she seemed to get a little bit of her own voice back. She's a very talkative, expressive dog, Last week, she was just whining, but this weekend, I began to hear little bits of her "conversational" voice mixed with the whining. And she would dance a little each time Janis and I came back home.

 

The neurologist couldn't discern just from the symptoms what had happened, although she is of the mind that it was either a stroke or a tumor in the brain. If Di's BP is low enough today, she will go for an MRI to determine that.

 

Neither Janis nor I have ever dealt with a stroke dog before so we don't have any experience to draw on. From stories I recall reading here, I know that dog's can recover most, if not all, of their abilities after a stroke unless it was massive. But Janis is concerned about how much, and how much quality of life Di will have. I've suggested that she wait and see what the neuro discovers until trying to decide that, but if it is a stroke, how long do I suggest she wait to see what extent of ability will return? She's concerned that if what we saw this weekend is the extent of recovery, walking in circles for the rest of Di's natural life is no quality, given that Di was an active and energetic dog.

 

I'm going to search for stroke stories here as time allows today. I have some catching up to do on my own life, having stepped out of it to be GU's disciple this weekend, but I will catch moment here and there where I'm taking a break.

 

Thank you all for your continued advice.

[MP_the4pack]

It took my Mom 6 months to get to about 90% after her stroke (she's 88 yesterday) It took at least a couple months to be able to walk and use her left hand.

 

Give Di some time. You can get pretty far back to normal if you have patience and can do physical therapy.