How To Avoid Switching Food Too Often

[jaym1]

So, I've talked about this in other threads as an aside, but here is the full outline of the problem my newly adopted dog is having.

 

Weight: I got him two months ago. He is a four-year-old retired racer, and has always been too thin. His racing weight was right around 70 lbs, and he's at a hair below 64 lbs now, which is right about where he was when I got him.

 

Food history: at the adoption center he was eating Hill's Science diet, which was resulting in yellow, soft stools. I brought him home with a small bag of Hill's, which I only used in the context of slowly transitioning him to Natural Balance limited ingredients (venison and sweet potato). At that time he had a raging tape worm infection, and his digestion seemed to be getting worse. After deworming and a couple courses of metronidazole, he still wasnt getting better, and his stools, though no longer yellow, were just kind of like pudding. I was advised by a local agency that that food was probably too rich. So, under the advice of other grey owners, I gradually switched, after about three weeks, to Holistic Blend, which is a chicken and brown rice/grain-based kibble. Put him back on metronidazole for a week as well, and also started him on a 30-day course of priobiotic. The result was somewhat firmer stools, but they were again yellow, acrid, and you could see he was not totally digesting the grain. This went on for another three weeks or so, at which point I changed again, to Taste of the Wild lamb. I am feeding him 4 cups a day. Fairly quickly his stools began to improve. They got somewhat darker, and a lot firmer. He even had one or two that were almost completely normal. But finally theyve started becoming gradually softer and paler. Usually only the morning one has any firmness at all, and he is gaining absolutely no weight. I have been adding very generous dollops of pumpkin almost all along. For a while that was clearly helping, but not anymore. He won't tolerate white rice at all, so that doesn't seem to be an option. Aside from the tape worm, he has never had actual diarrhea -- in other words, no accidents, and he can control himself. Just soft, pale stools and no weight gain. Clearly he's not now, and really never has been absorbing his food properly.

 

Throughout this time, though, his coat, which was dull and riddled with lesions from allergies, has cleared up and is coming back nicely. It has developed a very healthy looking shine and feels so soft and nice. But he is clearly having malabsorption issues. My vet tested for EPI and B12, along with a full panel, and all results were normal. I tried feeding him a raw turkey neck a couple weeks back, but that didn't turn out well -- he went from soft stools that seemed to be improving, or at least not getting worse, to a slow slide back to where we are now. He's certainly not deathly thin, but he is definitely too thin, and simply not gaining any weight. His energy levels are great, and he is alert and seems otherwise completely healthy. He is very food motivated, and loves to eat. Still, I want to get him on track and digesting his food as fast as I can.

 

My question (finally) is this: I know that his food has been switched WAY to many times in just the 8 or 9 weeks I've had him. But what is more important at this point: finding one that works for him, or just sticking with the same one, even if his symptoms persist?

 

Here's a photo so you can see his build. What you cant see from this angle is that most of his vertebrae are quite visible, as are the points of his hip bones. I think it's a lighting issue. His ribs and spine and hips are pretty much the first thing that you would notice when you saw him.

 

Edited January 2, 2012 by jaym1

[Batmom]

Actually, it sounds like he is absorbing. If he weren't, his coat wouldn't've gotten better, and he'd've lost more weight. Malabsorption may lead to soft stool, but soft stool can come from a wide variety of things, as can the yellowish color.

 

In terms of weight, I would feed him more. The Taste of the Wild lamb is low in calories per volume. Add a cup or two a day for a couple weeks and see what happens. If you don't want to add more kibble, try adding a 4-6 oz hamburger patty every day.

 

I know a lot of people here swear by pumpkin or sweet potato, but it's always produced ... guess what ... soft, yellowish stool in my dogs.

 

I'd do 2-3 rounds of wormer such as Panacur, 2-3 weeks apart. If that doesn't improve things, then I'd change food again.

[jaym1]

Actually, it sounds like he is absorbing. If he weren't, his coat wouldn't've gotten better, and he'd've lost more weight. Malabsorption may lead to soft stool, but soft stool can come from a wide variety of things, as can the yellowish color.

 

In terms of weight, I would feed him more. The Taste of the Wild lamb is low in calories per volume. Add a cup or two a day for a couple weeks and see what happens. If you don't want to add more kibble, try adding a 4-6 oz hamburger patty every day.

 

I know a lot of people here swear by pumpkin or sweet potato, but it's always produced ... guess what ... soft, yellowish stool in my dogs.

 

I'd do 2-3 rounds of wormer such as Panacur, 2-3 weeks apart. If that doesn't improve things, then I'd change food again.

 

Yeah, TOTW is in the mid 300s in terms of kCal per cup. It has just seemed that more food kind of means more, and softer stools. What would you recommend adding for fiber? At this point I'm so leery of fiddling with what he's eating that I have avoided looking for a substitute for the pumpkin -- which, by the way, I started after I had had him for about a month or so (should have been more clear on that).

 

Thanks for your reply!

[Batmom]

If he really needs more fiber, sometimes metamucil wafers (not the powder) help. I give 1/2 a wafer twice a day. Sometimes, tho, the soft stool can be caused by the type or amount of fat in the food, or by some other ingredient that doesn't quite agree with the dog.

[TwiggysMom]

I had a foster that had a similar issue. Although he wasn't as underweight as your guy, his soft stool was worse in that he often had diarrhea and wasn't always able to control it.

 

All told I had him for five and a half months, and this issue continued for all but the last month.

 

Like you, I did quite a few food switches, including home-cooked (which was what he seemed to do best, but still not great on). I worked in conjunction with the adoption group during this. Finally, the owner of the pet food store I go to suggested that I try a digestive enzyme additive. She gave me a sample of Wholistic Pets Digest-All.

 

I gave him 1/2 of the recommended dose in one meal, and the diarrhea stopped... completely. Literally hours later, he had the first completely normal stool he'd ever had while in my care. I continued giving him the enzyme, and he never back-slid for the remaining weeks that I had him. Also, after starting the enzyme, I was able to have him on a regular kibble again (don't remember which one, maybe California Natural).

 

I know that his adoptive did not keep up with the enzymes, and while I don't know what they ended up feeding him, his problems didn't come back. I think his system just needed to get "reset". It seems like diarrhea/soft stools can be self-continuing. Once the cycle is really broken, and their bowels calm down, things can return to normal.

 

Of course, if you are dealing with a really difficult case of worms like hookworms, or other, that is completely different. Worms, you probably know can be really difficult to diagnose, because fecals so often come back with false negatives.

 

I certainly hope your boy starts doing better. He sounds like a great guy.

 

(Also, another brand of enzymes might well be just as good - like Prozyme, which is easily found in many stores - Digest-All is the one the store happened to like & stock).

[MaryJane]

I have always had great luck in adding oatmeal (5 minute long cooking type) to the food. It has fiber which helps bind up the stool and .. if you notice, most of the sensitive stomach dog foods now have oatmeal in them.

 

I usually add about 1/2 cup of cooked oatmeal to the morning meal.

 

You can also try giving an apple once a day - slice them up (take out the core) and smear some peanut butter on them. Keep the skins on as those also have fiber.

 

If you still keep on having issues, I would suggest just going to a "home-made" diet of hamburg and rice (or noodles) with some veggies tossed in. Some dogs have problems digesting rice in the beginning but, if the rice is cooked more it might be OK. A home-made diet allows the gut to settle down and after about a week or two you can start switching gradually to a new food. If the new food doesn't work you can go back to the home-made and then try a different dog food.

 

It can take a month or more to find one that will work but, the nice thing about this method is during the time you are finding something, your dog's GI system is on the "easy to process home-made food" and hopefully is slowly healing itself.

[kudzu]

Mine do not seem to have a problem switching from one TOTW variety to the other. It might be possible to switch him to the Pacific Stream. Many of our hounds seem to do better on it. Pumpkin was definitely not a winner for my girl who came with the problem of soft stools. Yogurt helped a bit with the gas but just switching to human probiotics did a better job. I've not had a hound come through here yet who really handled rice well. Some tolerated it but did better with potato as the starch. There are some newer foods with pea based carb source. We have not tried that yet. Honestly I find the Greys in general do not seem to handle a lot of grains well. But just going grain free isn't always the entire solution. Life never seems to be that simply.

 

Think you've gotten excellent advice so far. I would probably take Batmom's advice & Panacur first. Then one at a time try adding probiotics, enzymes or switching foods.

[Feisty49]

I adopted Annie Bella in mid July of this year. She either had loose stools or diarrhea, even after rounds of metronidazole and anti-worming stuff. Chicken/rice helped a little but not enough. Over the months, I tried her on a couple of high-end food and they were just too rich for her. My vet put her on a 'script kibble (Purina EN). That started firming her poop up but IMO, it still wasn't "normal."

 

Long story short is I took the advice of quite a few people who post here who recommended Iams Minichunks Proactive (or referred to mostly as Iams in the green bag). That changed everything and her poop went from soft ice cream to a firm, definitive output. Annie Bella's diet now consists of half prescription kibble and half Iams in the green bag.

 

BTW, Annie has a sensitive gastro tract. Anything out of the ordinary (such as a Bully Stick) will change her poop so I'm sticking to what's working. High end food doesn't work for all dogs.

[jaym1]

I adopted Annie Bella in mid July of this year. She either had loose stools or diarrhea, even after rounds of metronidazole and anti-worming stuff. Chicken/rice helped a little but not enough. Over the months, I tried her on a couple of high-end food and they were just too rich for her. My vet put her on a 'script kibble (Purina EN). That started firming her poop up but IMO, it still wasn't "normal."

 

Long story short is I took the advice of quite a few people who post here who recommended Iams Minichunks Proactive (or referred to mostly as Iams in the green bag). That changed everything and her poop went from soft ice cream to a firm, definitive output. Annie Bella's diet now consists of half prescription kibble and half Iams in the green bag.

 

BTW, Annie has a sensitive gastro tract. Anything out of the ordinary (such as a Bully Stick) will change her poop so I'm sticking to what's working. High end food doesn't work for all dogs.

 

see, i am inclined to go that route too -- iams in the green bag. hence the reason i made this post, wondering if it'd actually be counterproductive, since a switch, even to a better food, might be too much for his system at this point.

 

thanks everyone for the advice!

[macoduck]

I adopted Annie Bella in mid July of this year. She either had loose stools or diarrhea, even after rounds of metronidazole and anti-worming stuff. Chicken/rice helped a little but not enough. Over the months, I tried her on a couple of high-end food and they were just too rich for her. My vet put her on a 'script kibble (Purina EN). That started firming her poop up but IMO, it still wasn't "normal."

 

Long story short is I took the advice of quite a few people who post here who recommended Iams Minichunks Proactive (or referred to mostly as Iams in the green bag). That changed everything and her poop went from soft ice cream to a firm, definitive output. Annie Bella's diet now consists of half prescription kibble and half Iams in the green bag.

 

BTW, Annie has a sensitive gastro tract. Anything out of the ordinary (such as a Bully Stick) will change her poop so I'm sticking to what's working. High end food doesn't work for all dogs.

 

see, i am inclined to go that route too -- iams in the green bag. hence the reason i made this post, wondering if it'd actually be counterproductive, since a switch, even to a better food, might be too much for his system at this point.

 

thanks everyone for the advice!

I'm an advocate for the Iams. Tried all the fancy better-for-her-stuff and it was good old Iams that suited her body the best. Check the green bag's label. The kibble comes in two sizes. We use the mini-chunk.

[GeorgeofNE]

You're the first poster who has said "he's too thin" that I actually agree with!

 

My dog had chronic soft poo for a long time when I got him; Panacur-D and some pumpkin finally got him firm.

 

And then I found out he does better on a beef food.

 

You might find he actually does better on cheap food; some of them just do. But I would take Batmom's advice for now, and see how that goes!

[silverfish]

 

 

Anything out of the ordinary (such as a Bully Stick) will change her poop so I'm sticking to what's working. .

 

Good point. And I notice that Tempo is carrying a nice big piece of paddywack or something similar. Are you taking into account the treats he has, too? Some dogs just don't do well on the commercially produced dried meat type treats, although they are great for most.

 

In your situation I'd try to reduce the quantity of different stuff he's eating while you're stabilising him and finding out what works. I'm finding that Ranger (my dog with similar issues to yours, if only in the weight gain department) can't tolerate much in the way of treats, though he'll eat a large range of foods in his dinner with no ill effect. I'm making his 'cookie' treats for him at the moment - peanut butter and honey biscuits and cheese biscuits go down very well. Puffed jerky, paddywack, dried sausage treats, dried chicken treats, etc, do not.

 

By the way - it's a very good idea to try digestive enzymes!

Edited January 2, 2012 by silverfish

[Guest goodtimekid]

I have 5 dogs and I finally found a food that works for all of them. I found out about Loyale dog food when we adopted 3 of our greys. It isn't expensive but the only food that keeps my Smokey firm. We have tried every premium food out there and finally decided to go back to Loyale. Within 4-5 days perfectly firmed stools. You have to buy it at a feed store and ours is very good about having 4 bags on hand at all times. I go through about 80 lbs every 2-3 weeks. Give it a try, it has made life at our house so much easier. Good luck.

[jaym1]

 

 

Anything out of the ordinary (such as a Bully Stick) will change her poop so I'm sticking to what's working. .

 

Good point. And I notice that Tempo is carrying a nice big piece of paddywack or something similar. Are you taking into account the treats he has, too? Some dogs just don't do well on the commercially produced dried meat type treats, although they are great for most.

 

In your situation I'd try to reduce the quantity of different stuff he's eating while you're stabilising him and finding out what works. I'm finding that Ranger (my dog with similar issues to yours, if only in the weight gain department) can't tolerate much in the way of treats, though he'll eat a large range of foods in his dinner with no ill effect. I'm making his 'cookie' treats for him at the moment - peanut butter and honey biscuits and cheese biscuits go down very well. Puffed jerky, paddywack, dried sausage treats, dried chicken treats, etc, do not.

 

By the way - it's a very good idea to try digestive enzymes!

 

right there with you, sivlerfish. thats an oldish photo. since then, ive tried to limit the different foods he takes in by cutting down on the different treats he gets. for the past ten days or so, his treats have just been individual bits of kibble, which he is perfectly happy with.

[Guest june]

Iam's works for my girls too. Tried changing and that was a mistake. Now they get Iams and I have no trouble with loose stools. Also, they don't get a lot of treats.

[buddibear]

I so happy I'm not alone in trying to pick up pea soup in a sandwich bag. Most times just a pile of dirt works. Had this foster 2 months. Never accident in house,but usless to pick up. Has been dewormed 2# and put on antiboitics (took the Metr stuff) last fecal shows undigested grains. Could be the few Christmas dog cookies the neighbor made this time. He came with Proplan shreaded chix/rice and went on to Wilderness Chix (no grain) Seems like the poo is thicker now and browner than the mustard. Now waiting 2 weeks for blood work for allergy. He is 5 and straight from the farm,maybe he only ate Beef and Kibble ( that's what was thawing in the tubs.)

[jaym1]

Talked to my vet, and she gave me a months worth of metronidazole and a course of Panacur to give him (separated by two weeks). The morning after his first 250 mg metro (at dinner), he had an almost perfect stool. But the next time he relieved himself, at night, he had basically the worst he's had -- soupy dreck. I had been restricting his diet to only his kibble. No treats, no pumpkin, nothing. He had, the night before, managed to get literally a speck of a dog treat that another was was eating. It was literally the size of a fingernail, and nothing like that has ever set him off before. He is still fully hydrated (gums have good color, and return instantly when pressed). He's not ill, has energy, and he has full control of his bowels.

 

I wanted to wait a few days before starting the Panacur, because I know it sometimes causes upset stomach. But I decided today to just give him the first dose of powder in his food, as he's had runny stools all weekend. It's really frustrating, and I don't know why he'd take this turn for the worse right after starting the Metro, which had always been helpful for him in the past.

[Feisty49]

I so happy I'm not alone in trying to pick up pea soup in a sandwich bag. Most times just a pile of dirt works.

 

 

Someone wrote on another post that in order to get a sample of nasty poo, she follows her dog around and puts a paper plate under him to catch the stuff. (I'd use a heavy-duty plate. ) I'm gonna remember this good idea.

[jaym1]

another day of gloop poop. waiting to hear back from the vet. strangely, even though its gloop, its no longer light in color, and he is only moving his bowels 2 or 3 times per day, as opposed to 4 or 5. whats even more ridiculous is that he finally seems to be starting to fill out a little. i keep telling myself that i must be imagining it, but i feel almost certain that his hip points are just starting to look less severe, as are his spine and ribs.

[Guest Melissa516]

Ginger had awful episodes of blow out diarrhea and routinely soft stools during the first 3 months. We were also guilty of too many food switches trying to find the right one. It happens, so dont feel too badly. She is now doing great on Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream. But, the one thing we feel really helped was Eagle Pack Holistic Solutions. It's a probiotic, prebiotic and digestive enzyme supplement.

[jaym1]

Ginger had awful episodes of blow out diarrhea and routinely soft stools during the first 3 months. We were also guilty of too many food switches trying to find the right one. It happens, so dont feel too badly. She is now doing great on Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream. But, the one thing we feel really helped was Eagle Pack Holistic Solutions. It's a probiotic, prebiotic and digestive enzyme supplement.

 

 

this stuff?

[EnzaFerrari]

Enza had soft to not at all pickable stool for a good 6-9 months when I first got her. It took a few rounds of Panacur (she had a few bugs) and then I started feeding her Prozyme to help her absorb nutrients as well as adding probioitics. I also switched her to Taste of the Wild Pacific stream. That worked really well for a few years but I also learned I could not switch her to the other versions without immediate issues. However, a few months ago, I switched to Nature's Domain at Costco. I did it cold turkey with zero problems and her output is actually better than when on TOTW.

[Guest Melissa516]

Ginger had awful episodes of blow out diarrhea and routinely soft stools during the first 3 months. We were also guilty of too many food switches trying to find the right one. It happens, so dont feel too badly. She is now doing great on Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream. But, the one thing we feel really helped was Eagle Pack Holistic Solutions. It's a probiotic, prebiotic and digestive enzyme supplement.

 

 

this stuff?

 

Yes, that's it! We asked our local Pets Supplies Plus, and they special ordered it for us ($10). I think you can also go to the Eagle Pack website and see who carries their products. That's how I got the first bottle. Make sure you call first, because some stores only carry their dog food, not the supplements. Also, Eagle Pack makes a similar supplement for transistioning dog foods, but we haven't tried it. Good luck!

[jaym1]

Ginger had awful episodes of blow out diarrhea and routinely soft stools during the first 3 months. We were also guilty of too many food switches trying to find the right one. It happens, so dont feel too badly. She is now doing great on Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream. But, the one thing we feel really helped was Eagle Pack Holistic Solutions. It's a probiotic, prebiotic and digestive enzyme supplement.

 

 

this stuff?

 

Yes, that's it! We asked our local Pets Supplies Plus, and they special ordered it for us ($10). I think you can also go to the Eagle Pack website and see who carries their products. That's how I got the first bottle. Make sure you call first, because some stores only carry their dog food, not the supplements. Also, Eagle Pack makes a similar supplement for transistioning dog foods, but we haven't tried it. Good luck!

 

Thanks. He's on a similar pro-/prebiotic right now (Proviable DC), which contains many of the same ingredients. I wonder if there's a significant difference? There are so many possible factors here. Very hard to figure out.

[Guest Melissa516]

Ginger was also very thin, and is finally picking up some weight. Her race weight was 63 lbs. She was 56 lbs. when we got her. Once we found a food that agreed with her, we've increased the amount (temporarily at least). She is looking better, less ribs, spine and hip bones showing. We'd like to get her weighed though. Right now she gets 2 cups at 8am, 2 cups at 5:30pm, and 1cup at 10pm. We also give her 1 big spoon of the TotW Pacific Stream canned food at dinner. Once she is at a healthy weight, we'll cut back.