Dog On Dog Aggression

[Guest Dragon]

Ok so we've been dealing with Dragon's issues of barking at other dogs when leashed/walking. He seems to go nuts to try to get to other dogs, especially in the neighborhood, but I feel like we're getting better with that. We got a gentle leader headcollar, and I always try positive reinforcement with treats to keep him focused. He's always been excellent at dog parks, playing with other dogs, etc, but it's usually just the frustration of not being able to get to other dogs that escalates into hysteria. Well, yesterday at the dog park, a very timid (smallish) dog came into the large dog area, and Dragon ran right over to him. He seems to be able to pick out the weaklings in milliseconds, and he's always right there to "greet" them. He usually just chases them around and tries to dominate them, but this dog he would not leave alone. He even BIT the other dog's back. I was mortified. He did not break the skin, but it was a good pinch. The owner was understandably upset at Dragon, but not unreasonable about it and said her dog was fine. So I decided it was time for a time-out, and I took Dragon alone on a very structured, fast-paced walk around the park, and left his sister and daddy in the park. When I got back, my husband told me that every other dog in the dog park started picking on that timid dog after we had left. The owner even took it into the small dog area, and all the other dogs were chasing it around, too. It makes me feel a bit better about Dragon's behaviour, but I still wish I knew exactly how to "fix" him when he gets like that. I had dreamed of making him a therapy dog, but I don't know how that's ever going to happen if we can't curb is behaviour toward other dogs. Any thoughts? Suggestions?

[Guest Swifthounds]

Your dog's behavior doesnt make him a bad dog, but it does make a dog park a bad situation for him. Working on modifying his behavior is important, but if he is still reactive, he's at the kindergarten level and leash free dog parks are graduate school level. Taking him to a dog park may seem fine, but is counter productive.

[spottydog]

We have that problem too.. He leaps around barking and tries to get at other dogs on leash, big or small, even across the street. I think it's just misdirected excitement, but I can't trust him not to snap, which he has done, greeting other dogs. I don't know how to deal with it either. I thought I had the only grey that thought he was a pit bull...

[inugrey]

Swifthounds put it quite well. Just don't go to dog parks until he is better in control of himself. I decided dog parks were counter productive for my dog and for me. I, you know, watch my dog instead of chatting...when so many other's don't.

 

Also, a dog who isn't great a dog parks does not mean the dog isn't perfect for therapy work. Two very different interactions, people v. dogs

[Tallgreydogmom]

I'm sorry. I don't think he is a dog park or therapy type dog. Did your adoption group know you were looking for a therapy type dog when they placed him? Taking him to a dog park sounds like it might be putting him and other dogs in danger.

 

Try melting his me dog with lots of love and calmness. Let him age in love and tranquility.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Tallgreydogmom

[Guest Dragon]

We have that problem too.. He leaps around barking and tries to get at other dogs on leash, big or small, even across the street. I think it's just misdirected excitement, but I can't trust him not to snap, which he has done, greeting other dogs. I don't know how to deal with it either. I thought I had the only grey that thought he was a pit bull...

 

That is EXACTLY what I am dealing with. Leash-walking has always been harder when other dogs are present. It's just frustrating because the dog park/daycare have always been situations he's thrived in. As long as he can get to/meet/play with the other dogs, he's great. This is the only time he's ever snapped at a dog aggressively. (Once he snapped at an off leash dog that ran over and promptly got into his face, but that seemed defensive). I would hate to have to stop taking him to social places, but if the dog park is a bad situation for him all of a sudden, I would have to reconsider it.

[Guest SusanP]

I have a hound who behaves this way when on leash, too. I would never even think of trusting him at a dog park. I would say your hound and dog parks are not a good mix, period. The chasing and dominating should be further clues that this is risky, and the biting is a huge, waving,red flag. Please don't take him back.

[EnzaFerrari]

Enza developed a strong reaction to other dogs about a year ago. I had taken her to dog parks in very controlled circumstances until then (large ones, off hours, leaving as soon as something felt weird), but once she growled at another dog while on leash, we stopped going when other dogs were there.

 

Since then, I have been working very hard with her on redirecting her attention to me when on walks. There are many descriptions on this throughout GT, but this is what works for me. My girl and I had been through training so the base line was there and she is very food motivated. Basically, on our walks as soon as we see another dog, I tell her to "watch me" (or some various there can work - "look at me, name of dog, etc" ) and as soon as she snaps to look at me, she gets a treat. I tended to give her one as soon as saw the dog, another as it passed us (sometime we were walking, sometimes I took her aside and had her sit down), and a final one once the dog was behind us and she did not react to the other dog in a bad way. I was also lucky that were dogs that she adores so when they'd meet, dance, play bow, lick each other, etc, I'd shower her with threats and praise and spoil her rotten to back up that good behavior = treats.

 

We are at the point that as soon as we see another dog, she focuses on me until she gets her treat or the dog is past us. The other side affect is that she didn't quite put it together that it was for dogs only as she looks at me for when we walk past joggers, bikers, cars, trucks, etc and so on. Granted I now have to work on her pogo-jumping when she knows I have the really good stuff or trying to stuff her nose into the bag, but this has really helped me out.

 

I took this after we walked past two German Shepherds (one off leash!) and she stuffed her whole face into the bag....

 

 

 

 

As for a therapy dog, don't rule that out just yet. Enza loves people and prefers people to others dogs 99 percent of the time. She is also just about perfect around kids and babies. I think if I spent the effort, she'd be excellent at it so as said above, interactions between humans and dogs are totally different.

Edited October 26, 2011 by EnzaFerrari

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

From your two short descriptions of events, I would say that your hound is too excited when seeing small dogs run around. This may or may not subside over time. I normally don't suggest people take their hounds to dog parks for at least the first 6 months to a year that they have their hound. This first 6 months is needed to acclimate their hound to all the new things in the world. I did learn this the hard way, I took my boy Bart to a large (5 acres) dog park where people refused to accept the sign that said "large breeds". Two time when he saw little dogs he just chased and chased them. He wouldn't listen to me (of course not, he was only in my house for 3 months!) and I had to physically catch him and take him away. I learned after two trips that he needed a lot more time. Now 3 years later, he will still wants to chase the little ones, but I can usually catch him verbally before he breaks into chase and redirect him on a walk around the woody part of the park.

As far as your short blurb on his "aggressive" reaction to a dog in his face, that was NOT aggression, its called "CORRECTION". You see when dogs meet under natural circumstances (outside of human intervention), they make wide sweeps around the other dog and attempt to sniff the rear. Any attempt to sniff face to face is considered rude or an aggressive act in itself. Your boy was simply telling the other dog with an "air snap" that any further rude behavior will not be tolerated.

I would not hesitate to pursue a therapy certification with your hound. I would try to acclimate him more to other dogs by taking him into pet stores and the such, realizing that you need to desensitize him. This can be accomplished by ways described above.

 

No worries, your boy is not aggressive, just new to the world.

 

Chad

[MaryJane]

We have that problem too.. He leaps around barking and tries to get at other dogs on leash, big or small, even across the street. I think it's just misdirected excitement, but I can't trust him not to snap, which he has done, greeting other dogs. I don't know how to deal with it either. I thought I had the only grey that thought he was a pit bull...

 

That is EXACTLY what I am dealing with. Leash-walking has always been harder when other dogs are present. It's just frustrating because the dog park/daycare have always been situations he's thrived in. As long as he can get to/meet/play with the other dogs, he's great. This is the only time he's ever snapped at a dog aggressively. (Once he snapped at an off leash dog that ran over and promptly got into his face, but that seemed defensive). I would hate to have to stop taking him to social places, but if the dog park is a bad situation for him all of a sudden, I would have to reconsider it.

 

 

If your dog bite the back of another dog then the dog park is not a good place for you to go .. at least at this time.

 

There are usually warning signs that would cue you that you need to get your dog on a leash and out of there. Luckily, in this case, the owner did not make a case of it but, next time it could be worse. The other owner should not have taken a small dog into the large dog section but, she/he did and at that point you needed to re-access and see if you can control the situation to ensure that no one would get hurt.

 

This is not to say that you can't go eventually - you just need to work one-on-one to control your dog and starting with just simple leash walking (tight lead) can do wonders. As noted above, this can take a few months.

[Jackandgrey]

It's very difficult to say what exactly is going when we are not there. My Jill was extremely leash reactive but absolutely fine in any off leash situation. The key is the leash and that can be worked with. Sounds like there was something about this other dog that all the dogs were sensing and were prepared to pick on it for whatever reason. That dog should not be at the off leash park. I am not a fan of off leash parks myself but I don't actually see a lot that is particularly unusual in anything you posted.

 

I also see no reason why you should rule out therapy work with your dog. Oh Jill was also completely fine with all the other dogs at her obedience class. She apparently figured out they were her classmates . But would still react to a strange dog walking outside the gate when at class if she was on leash.

[Guest sheila]

One thing I don't see being addressed (much) is the other 'very timid/smallish dog'.. What do any of know about what could be going on here? Perhaps the dog had been in heat recently (or about to go there) and that could explain part of why ALL the dogs and not just Dragon were picking on it.

I do agree though that until you can find yourselves in a place where Dragon is reliably trained to the point that he can be distracted from such behavior a dog park is not the place for him.

[countrypaws]

You really need to have your pup on a leash when he is learning how to interact with other dogs. Running loose at a dog park with unknown dogs of all sizes is a lawsuit and vet bill waiting to become all yours.

When a dog starts to fixate on another dog in an inappropriate way, you can correct him with a tap or a pat on the hip when he's next to you on leash. If you see the tail go up and a fixated stare at the other animal, then he's getting worked up to be dominant or aggressive. Learn to read these signs long before there's an airsnap ... or a bite. Dogs have a clear set of signs and signals which they use with each other and we just have to get better at reading them.

But allowing your greyhound loose with small dogs is a really bad situation and will end up costing you in the end if you don't keep your dog safe. When a small dog runs it can trigger his prey drive in a way that makes him want to run down and bite the small dog. There are situations where cats have lived with the same greyhound in the house for years, but the first time he sees the cat run across the yard he strikes and kills the cat.

Or your dog could run so fast that he irritates a previously calm German Shepherd or Black Lab who chases and bites your dog's thin, brittle fur as they run and costs you $720 in surgery costs and a Penrose drain.

And depending upon local laws, your dog could be branded as a "vicious" dog if it attacked or killed a smaller dog and could be confiscated and euthanized. All for a romp at a dog park? Hardly worth it.

Find a fenced area of your own and avoid the dog parks if other dogs are there.

[kudzu]

Your dog's behavior doesnt make him a bad dog, but it does make a dog park a bad situation for him. Working on modifying his behavior is important, but if he is still reactive, he's at the kindergarten level and leash free dog parks are graduate school level. Taking him to a dog park may seem fine, but is counter productive.

Ditto.

[Guest KennelMom]

Your dog's behavior doesnt make him a bad dog, but it does make a dog park a bad situation for him. Working on modifying his behavior is important, but if he is still reactive, he's at the kindergarten level and leash free dog parks are graduate school level. Taking him to a dog park may seem fine, but is counter productive.

 

I agree.

 

One of my issues with dog parks is that people think it's a place to socialize a dog, when it's really a place for dogs who already know how to be social. I don't think your dog is a good candidate for a dog park yet. If he does hurt another dog, he could be in some serious trouble...peruse the Lexus Project's site to read about all the greyhounds and other dogs they've had to rescue b/c the owners set the dogs up to fail by putting them in situations they couldn't handle - some involving dog parks.

Edited October 27, 2011 by KennelMom

[cleptogrey]

if you want to socialize your dog start with formal obedience classes. there you will learn how to have him interact with people and other dogs in a controlled, positive, focused fashion. start with the basics, which can be boering, but the results in the long run will be fantastic if you perservere. as everyone else states: stay away from dog parks, more trouble than less there.

 

check out the AKC site for organigized, credited dog trainers and schools. APdT(or something like that American Pet Dog Training Association) is a good resource as well. please don't go w/ petco training.

[Guest Dragon]

Thanks for all the input. I am definitely going to get some professional training. I think the issue I may not have been clear on is that this is not a new dog, it is a new problem. I have had him for over a year now, and he has been socialized fine. The only issues we've had are his over excitement when leashed. He has been going to daycare and dog parks for quite a long time with absolutely no problems. More recently, he's been what I would describe as the more confident dog in the park, but he has never shown aggression to any dogs until the other day. I'm not excusing his behaviour at all, and I will avoid parks until we can get some further training and figure out if there is a problem that we can deal with, but I will say that every other dog at the park (even the goldens) were aggressive toward this particular dog. I guess I was just looking for some tips on how I can train him to focus on me instead of outside stimuli. We have been doing the treating as a distraction thing that was described above, but I guess things aren't progressing as easily as I'd like, so I'm wondering if there's something else I can do to calm him down and focus on me.

[onrushpam]

You might consider two of Patricia McConnell's books.

Feisty Fido is about leash-reactive dogs.

Off Leash Dog Play is about dogs playing safely together

 

Here's the link.

 

[Guest Dragon]

You might consider two of Patricia McConnell's books.

Feisty Fido is about leash-reactive dogs.

Off Leash Dog Play is about dogs playing safely together

 

Here's the link.

 

 

Thanks! Just bought them for my Kindle.

[Guest Swifthounds]

One of my issues with dog parks is that people think it's a place to socialize a dog, when it's really a place for dogs who already know how to be social.

 

Exactly!

 

To the OP, there are a few good threads on GT already on desensitizing dog's with this type of reactive behavior. In most instances, reactive dog's are actually very INSECURE dogs and often owner mistake the signs and signals if appeasement (wagging tail, running, etc.) for the dog enjoying itself when in reality, the dog is stressed and being made more insecure and, therefore, more reactive and more dangerous.

 

Re: the other dog who was picked on. It may be that that dog was also sending appeasing signals and thus became a target for other insecure dogs needing to assert themselves. An alpha would never behave that way toward a toward a timid dog. Other insecure dogs will, however, follow the lead of the OP's dog once his action had demonstrated that the dog is vulnerable and ripe for the picking. The likelihood of that is amplified by the fact that the dog was probably shaking and throwing off fear signals and chemicals.

 

Confident dogs don't need to assert themselves by bullying other dogs. Insecure dogs will do so as a feeble attempt

to stave off other insecure dogs doing the same to them. All around it's not a good thing for any of the involved dogs. Too often, however, owners are ignorant or misunderstand what they are seeing.

[Guest LindsaySF]

One of my issues with dog parks is that people think it's a place to socialize a dog, when it's really a place for dogs who already know how to be social.

 

 

Some dogs are never able to be dog park dogs.

 

 

Therapy work, interactions with humans, has nothing to do with behavior at the dog park. Reactivity to other dogs could pose a problem though if other therapy dogs are present at the same time as you.

[Guest mirinaaronsmom]

My Mojo is not a good dog park dog. He's way too dominant with other breeds and is definitely not small-dog safe. However, he is a wonderful therapy dog. Even when he is working among other dogs, like at the library and kids are reading to the various dogs, it's a whole different situation. We have all different sized dogs there and it's in pretty close quarters, but IMHO it's because therapy dogs are confident and well-behaved and that attitude is just 'in the air'. You don't often get the dogs that are super-excited and in-your-face during therapy dog sessions. I don't know if I'm getting my point across very well, but it's just completely different.

[Guest LuvsGreys]

Well isn't this forum just a breath of fresh air! I only ever hear good things about greys and I was willing to believe all greys were perfect until...my new adoption came along from Rescue. She is very good with my other dogs. She is not food aggressive, bed aggressive or toy aggressive but she is not what I wanted...

 

She has an on-lead aggression issue. She barks, growls and lunges at dogs behind fences, walking ahead of us or across the road. And a cat once. And some species of birds.

 

She is perfectly fine with dogs down the park or at obedience class and shows no aggressive body language in those situations, actively avoiding the reactive dogs. When some greys started chasing a small dog, she peeled off and stopped playing.

 

She is six and the behaviourist tells me it could take months or years to cure. I just wanted a dog I could walk quietly and calmly with the others, like my previous grey.

 

She is also a very active, high-energy hound who turn the house upside down in her play (at least by comparison with my other grey, now deceased). I had sought a quiet older dog. I get home from work and something is torn up ... I try very hard to put everything out of reach. There may be some separation anxiety issues but I am doing all the stuff the trainers tell you to (not make a fuss at coming or going, leave for very short periods and return etc) NILIF... She is also a whiner although I try to ignore that I feel it might be a personality indication - does it mean she is highly strung?

 

I see no-one has really suggested a solution. For what it is worth, the behaviourist told me to keep her away from reinforcing the behaviour by avoiding other dogs in the street (if possible) for 6 weeks. Take her and expose her to plenty of dogs down the park - hers is clearly a frustration problem but could lead to redirected aggression ie when he finally meets the dog in the distance or the dog may have a go because of her behaviour.

 

I am so embarrassed when she carried on in the street and the other dog owners literally run for cover. The rescue group did not realise this when they placed her. She has also had minor seizures so there is little or no chance of her being placed if I returned her but now I am fond of her anyway. Sorry but this has been cathartic! I feel too embarrassed to talk about it and cannot tell my mom but with her behaviour I don't feel I can ever leave her with anyone or ever go away for a holiday again - maybe kennels.

[Guest BrianRke]

Well isn't this forum just a breath of fresh air! I only ever hear good things about greys and I was willing to believe all greys were perfect until...my new adoption came along from Rescue. She is very good with my other dogs. She is not food aggressive, bed aggressive or toy aggressive but she is not what I wanted...

 

She has an on-lead aggression issue. She barks, growls and lunges at dogs behind fences, walking ahead of us or across the road. And a cat once. And some species of birds.

 

She is perfectly fine with dogs down the park or at obedience class and shows no aggressive body language in those situations, actively avoiding the reactive dogs. When some greys started chasing a small dog, she peeled off and stopped playing.

 

She is six and the behaviourist tells me it could take months or years to cure. I just wanted a dog I could walk quietly and calmly with the others, like my previous grey.

 

She is also a very active, high-energy hound who turn the house upside down in her play (at least by comparison with my other grey, now deceased). I had sought a quiet older dog. I get home from work and something is torn up ... I try very hard to put everything out of reach. There may be some separation anxiety issues but I am doing all the stuff the trainers tell you to (not make a fuss at coming or going, leave for very short periods and return etc) NILIF... She is also a whiner although I try to ignore that I feel it might be a personality indication - does it mean she is highly strung?

 

I see no-one has really suggested a solution. For what it is worth, the behaviourist told me to keep her away from reinforcing the behaviour by avoiding other dogs in the street (if possible) for 6 weeks. Take her and expose her to plenty of dogs down the park - hers is clearly a frustration problem but could lead to redirected aggression ie when he finally meets the dog in the distance or the dog may have a go because of her behaviour.

 

I am so embarrassed when she carried on in the street and the other dog owners literally run for cover. The rescue group did not realise this when they placed her. She has also had minor seizures so there is little or no chance of her being placed if I returned her but now I am fond of her anyway. Sorry but this has been cathartic! I feel too embarrassed to talk about it and cannot tell my mom but with her behaviour I don't feel I can ever leave her with anyone or ever go away for a holiday again - maybe kennels.

Since this is an older thread, you may want to copy and paste this into a new thread so more people will read it. I cant wait to hear the responses from this.

[krissy]

My Mojo is not a good dog park dog. He's way too dominant with other breeds and is definitely not small-dog safe. However, he is a wonderful therapy dog. Even when he is working among other dogs, like at the library and kids are reading to the various dogs, it's a whole different situation. We have all different sized dogs there and it's in pretty close quarters, but IMHO it's because therapy dogs are confident and well-behaved and that attitude is just 'in the air'. You don't often get the dogs that are super-excited and in-your-face during therapy dog sessions. I don't know if I'm getting my point across very well, but it's just completely different.

 

You know, I really do think this is true. I also think that a dog knows when it is "work time" and are automatically focused on their jobs and not on the dogs around them. Summit has some reactivity to large, dominant non-greyhounds when we walk or go to the dog park (we go to walk the trails, he doesn't run around off leash with the other dogs most of the time). He just doesn't like rude behaviour or the automatic assumption by the other dog that they are more dominant than him. He also has a totally irrational aversion to huskies with blue eyes.

 

We went to Woofstock last weekend which is a huge dog fair in Toronto. Lots of vendors, TONNES of dogs, close quarters. One of the therapy dog groups was there so we stopped to discuss with them. They thought Summit was wonderful. Then much to my horror another volunteer showed up at the booth with... a husky with blue eyes. Normally Summit goes berserk as soon as he can tell they have blue eyes... he seriously turns into Cujo. I'm thinking "well here go our chances of being a therapy dog" but Summit sniffed the other dog and then actually wanted to play with him! I don't know if it was the change in scenery or this therapy dog's "air" but I have never seen him want to be friends with a blue eyed husky before. Throughout the course of the rest of the day we met several more blue eyed huskies, and wouldn't you know it he was fine with them to. Bet you the first one we see back at home again he goes crazy though.