In Need Of Help

[Guest TillersFam]

Hello everyone! Not sure if this post should go in the Medical Forum or the Food/Diet Forum, but if it needs to be switched, feel free.

 

We have a some problems with our recently adopted greyhound and his food/eating. He’s a retired racer and will be 4 years old in November. He came to us eating Purina ONE, and while he ate it, we wanted to switch him to a better food. His stools were very runny and he had a lot of dandruff flaking and itching.

 

We switched him to Blue Buffalo, which he really liked, and his coat is now beautiful and soft as silk. Unfortunately, his poops were still pretty much “soft serve” two times a day. We then switched him to Blue Buffalo Basics, which is a grain free mix, and his itching, sneezing, and flaking all disappeared, but the soft poops continued.

 

Two weeks ago, he had explosive diarrhea in the evening, followed by bloody diarrhea the next day. We had him tested for worms, giardia, etc. and all tests came back negative. Vet said he’s losing muscle mass and dropping weight. The dog dropped from 74 pounds to 68 pounds in a week. Put him on an All Bran and boiled hamburger meatball mixture which helped to clear up the diarrhea, along with Flagyl, but he’s still not himself. Took him to another vet, (one who has a good rep as a greyhound expert) and he’s now on Flagyl and Sulfasalizine and we are sprinkling Fortaflora on his food. The vet switched his food to Royal Canin Calorie Control, which (as he said) seems counter intuitive, but makes sense, as it is a high fiber food that will hopefully stop the diarrhea. The dog has been on the Royal Canin for a week now, and it seems to be working—poops are well formed and while some are soft, they are nowhere near the “soft serve” we used to get. The new vet said that once we get two weeks of formed poops, we can then start to work in another non prescription food to switch him to.

 

So, I guess my questions are as follows:

1) Anyone have any ideas that what might be the cause of this whole mess? We think that perhaps the explosive diarrhea and blood might not be connected to the whole food issue, as he did get into some bunny poop the Friday before this blew up.

2) Anyone have food recommendations for a grey with a sensitive stomach? We have pretty much figured out that his allergy is to corn, as he did ok with the All Bran meatballs, and the Royal Canin has corn in it, and he’s itchy again.

3) Any other words of wisdom or encouragement? We are at wits end.

[Batmom]

1) Anyone have any ideas that what might be the cause of this whole mess? We think that perhaps the explosive diarrhea and blood might not be connected to the whole food issue, as he did get into some bunny poop the Friday before this blew up.

 

Usually you see blood with bacterial or parasitic infection.

 

2) Anyone have food recommendations for a grey with a sensitive stomach? We have pretty much figured out that his allergy is to corn, as he did ok with the All Bran meatballs, and the Royal Canin has corn in it, and he's itchy again.

 

It's really hard to tell what a dog is allergic/sensitive to in commercial foods -- they have a LOT of ingredients! Could be corn, could be some minor ingredient that appears in the foods that don't agree. One of mine turned out to be allergic to fish and fish oil -- go figure. I would list out the ingredients (except for vitamins and minerals) in the foods you've fed and pick something as different as possible. Pay attention to the fat source and percentage -- most of my dogs have done better on lower fat foods, and most do better with animal fat sources rather than vegetable and seed oils.

 

3) Any other words of wisdom or encouragement? We are at wits end.

 

Has your dog had a fecal exam to check for parasites? Worming a couple times with Panacur or similar would be a good idea.

 

 

 

[Guest KennelMom]

Solid advice from Batmom, as usual.

[Guest TillersFam]

Thanks for the fast reply. He's been checked twice for parasites/worms, and both tests have come back negative. He's been dosed with Pancur as well as a precaution. Thanks for the advice about the fods--we will look for low fat and animal fats.

[XTRAWLD]

Not sure how often you have been switching food, but in the past for us, changing food too often just does the dog more damage than good. Their sensitive stomachs can't take the constant change, adding the fact that it maybe a complete switch and not something gradual. We've had all kind of poops on all kinds of food. It really is trial and error and takes a long time to nail down what works best with what dog.

 

Kasey has skin allergy reactions, so I have experience with visual allergy, but not exactly anything they may be allergic to internally that may cause what you are seeing involving the stool. I don't have very much to comment on regarding the blood, and you did a lot of testing so far to make sure he's ok.

 

Kasey is also one that doesn't pack weight on very well (due to his allergy meds) but I found that feeding raw was the best way to increase his weight, he just never has weight gain while on kibble. Raw also provides very hard stool and they get a lot of water out of the food. But your boy may not be able to switch to raw right now because of his current status - however you might want to visit that in the future. Just a thought.

 

Don't forget to try to keep him as hydrated as possible while he has D, I find it easiest to just add a little water to the kibble to make sure he gets a little extra.

[GeorgeofNE]

Lot of talk about the evils of corn on GT, but according to my vets, dogs with food allergies are typically allergic to the protein source in the food, not the grain source.

 

You'd have to do a proper food trial to really know.

 

My dog had chronic soft poops when I adopted him. All fecal exams were negative. Dosed him with Panacur-D a couple of times, and TA DA. Normal poo. Could have been a coincidence, but it's not expensive and worth a try.

 

Since this new vet seems to have nailed it with the Royal Canin, perhaps he or she is a better source of suggestions on a new food than us?

[krissy]

Inflammatory bowel disease is always a possibility too. I'd try to rule out an allergy first by doing some food trials. You may have luck with a "novel protein" food such as Kangaroo or venison. I agree though that switching foods too often can be trouble. It generally takes a very gradual switch and about 2 months before you can definitively say that a food is not working.

[PrairieProf]

I've never had itching issues with Beth, but she had GI issues in the past, and I think I have to agree with Batmom about low fat and animal vs. plant fat working better, at least for Beth. She has done better on Hill's Prescription I/D (9% fat, pork fat as the main source) than anything else we've used, grain free included -- so well I can't bring myself to try to change it. AND to my surprise she has the softest coat she's ever had on this food -- she seems to be notably the softest greyhound in any gathering I bring her to. It does have corn. But from what I've read, actual scientific studies show corn allergies are in fact really really rare. (I know lots of people with itchy dogs right now -- is there any chance it could be seasonal rather than food-related?)

 

I've decided vets may indeed know more about what works with food than they are popularly reputed to.

Edited September 4, 2011 by PrairieProf

[Time4ANap]

We've been through the "better" foods with Rocket. After a few months on each one we would go through the symptoms you describe no matter what the protein source was. Most of them were just too rich, no matter what the main ingredients were.

 

We switched to Precise Foundation which is highly digestible. We switched based on the experience of the boarding facility we use, which boards only greyhounds. They use this as the house food, and will also switch a boarder to it when they are having stomach problems using their own food. It has been the best food we found so far for Rocket, and we are very happy with it. It can be a little hard to find, but any Pet Food Store or Feed Store using a major distributor can order it in. It's also available online. They also have a line called Sensicare if you need an even lower fat content.

 

You will get lots of suggestions for food here, but it boils down to what ends up working for your dog. For every food that someone suggests, you will often have someone else post saying that one didn't work for them - it really is trial and error and takes some time.

 

We are going through the whole scratching and licking thing here at the moment with seasonal allergies. We have no reason to suspect the food, but you do need to consider it when you see symptoms like that.

 

Hope your pup is better soon.

[DustysMom]

I've never had itching issues with Beth, but she had GI issues in the past, and I think I have to agree with Batmom about low fat and animal vs. plant fat working better, at least for Beth. She has done better on Hill's Prescription I/D (9% fat, pork fat as the main source) than anything else we've used, grain free included -- so well I can't bring myself to try to change it. AND to my surprise she has the softest coat she's ever had on this food -- she seems to be notably the softest greyhound in any gathering I bring her to. It does have corn. But from what I've read, actual scientific studies show corn allergies are in fact really really rare. (I know lots of people with itchy dogs right now -- is there any chance it could be seasonal rather than food-related?)

 

I've decided vets may indeed know more about what works with food than they are popularly reputed to.

After trying MANY foods with Maggie (some worse than others but nothing good for soft serve), I decided to try her on a combination of dry WD and canned ID. That combination was the only thing that gave Dusty firm poop years ago. It was instant success with Maggie also. Interesting that Beth responds well to the same food - she and Maggie are both StarWars pups. Wonder if the same issue run in families?

[JohnF]

I've got mine back on regular Greyhound Food (Best Pet UK). It costs a third of the nice expensive kibble she was on and of course doesn't have nice named 25% Turkey meat or 25% Grass Fed Lamb. The soft poops have stopped, the dog looks happier; but there is a lot of paint-stipping atrength gas and more poop to pick up. I'm adding 1 tbsp natural live yoghurt a day.

I'll get her back on the dearer kibble later in the year as i think it pays to switch seasonally.

Don't feed greasy fatty foods or it will upset the Pancreas. My dog vomits up real beef of lamb if there's any fat.

Now that blood, was it frank blood? What color was it really as that tells where in the system is coming from?

[Guest TillersFam]

Thanks for all the responses and ideas. JohnF, the blood was dark, dark red, almost maroon. Time4ANap, thanks for the suggestion of the Precise--have heard good things about it and greys.

[Time4ANap]

Thanks for all the responses and ideas. JohnF, the blood was dark, dark red, almost maroon. Time4ANap, thanks for the suggestion of the Precise--have heard good things about it and greys.

 

Make sure you specify Precise Foundation if that's the one you decide to try. We had some people just ask for Precise, and they ended up with the wrong product from the Precise line being shipped. The bags look a little different at the moment - 40 lb bag has some red printing on it and has 4lbs more included as a bonus - so don't let that throw you.

[Hubcitypam]

I can only post (for about the 1,000th time) about my bridge boy Rex. He had the worst tummy ever and my vet said it was chronic colitis. I'd come home to bloody runs, he had a standing script for flagyl and we wormed and tested him within an inch of his life. His tummy would grumble so loud it would wake me and I spent lots of nights on the futon trying to get him to eat something to make it stop.

 

I spent 487 hours online and in pet stores trying to fix him with food. I tried novel protein like NB venison, limited ingredient like California Natural, sensitive stomach like Purina One salmon and several others to no avail. I had to hose in everything that came out of him rather than pick it up.

 

One day I got so pissed that I threw a green bag of Iams in the cart and called it a day. I fed Iams for years before those "in the know " on here lectured me about demon corn and insisted no one that cared about their dog would feed it.

 

Within two days of transition he firmed up, a week in you could bounce his poops off the sidewalk and he never ever had grumbly tummy or bloody runs again. It is the high beet pulp that does it -- It regulates the water in the intestines.

 

FWIW I worked for Blue Buffalo for a bit and had free food I couldn't use...even my non bad tummy dogs got the runs on it, no matter how long I transitioned by the time we got to all Blue it was a mess. Great company. wonderful people but just plain too rich for every dog I've owned or fostered.

[XTRAWLD]

The darker the blood, the further up the pipeline it is if I'm not mistaken.

 

RE: Iams comment above. Kasey THRIVED on Iams for years, as did Ryder. Different foods work on different dogs as I stated before, but it is an extremely long trial and error process to get right.

[Guest sirsmom]

I would go with overcooked rice for the first day and if that is tolerated, add a small amount of ground beef the second day and increase the ground beef the third day etc (must be white rice by the way).til you see the stomach is tolerating then you might want to try a food such as Science Diet sensitive stomach or Iams lamb and rice and start adding small amounts each day and gradually reducing the rice mixture til you are full on the dry food. I had to do this once this year with one of mine ( i saw liquid and blood spots but there were no parasites) and it worked for her. If there is any fever or more blood passed I would definitely start working with my vet on this.

[MaryJane]

I would go with overcooked rice for the first day and if that is tolerated, add a small amount of ground beef the second day and increase the ground beef the third day etc (must be white rice by the way).til you see the stomach is tolerating then you might want to try a food such as Science Diet sensitive stomach or Iams lamb and rice and start adding small amounts each day and gradually reducing the rice mixture til you are full on the dry food. I had to do this once this year with one of mine ( i saw liquid and blood spots but there were no parasites) and it worked for her. If there is any fever or more blood passed I would definitely start working with my vet on this.

 

This is good advice because you need to take it slow when you have digestive issues as switching too fast will cause problems again.

 

Doing a bland diet or rice and hamburg are great to settle to GI because it is easy to digest and when it looks like the stool is not longer bloody you can start to add some fiber in -- the green IAMs bag has a good amount of fiber which is why it can work. You could also add oatmeal to the food - cooked green beans might also work.

 

You mentioned a "corn allergy" - I'm not sure how you determined this but, you might want to try one of the Limited Ingredient dog foods and see if that helps - Natural Balance Venison and Sweet Potato is one that I have used for fosters that seems to work OK.

 

edited to add -

 

You also asked how this could have happened ... you mentioned that your dog got into into rabbit poo and that could be a reason. Another reason could be starting medicines like antibiotics that wipe out the good bacteria in the gut (yogurt or probotics can help fix this). Your dog could also have an allergy to a particular food that cause diarrhea but, bloody diarrhea would indicate (IMHO) a pretty inflamed digestive tract.

Edited September 5, 2011 by MaryJane