Green Alternatives To Frontline?

[Guest chaoran22]

We've always used Frontline but the chemicals in it make me uncomfortable, and I'd like to find a less poisonous alternative if possible. I can never get my dogs to stay upright after applying Frontline (being lazy greyhounds after all) and it invariably drips all over their bedding and everything they lie on after application. Plus we hug and kiss them (a lot) and let them up on our bed, and we try to avoid all that the first day or so after application, but still it bothers me to think of the Frontline constantly seeping out of their pores/hair follicles and getting on our skin and maybe in our system (even though it supposedly doesn't go in the dog's system).

 

We live in Chicago, where there are less fleas/ticks I think, so I was hoping maybe we can get away with a less strong preventative. In fact, we didn't do a Frontline application at all this year until the last week of July (when they went to stay out in the suburbs for a week with my parents while we were on vacation) and didn't have any problems but I don't know if we were just lucky that we didn't get flea infested or if it means we can actually get away with less aggressive prevention.

 

I was looking at this stuff: http://www.sergeantsnatural.com/products.html but don't know how well it works. Does anyone else here have suggestions or experiences with these alternatives? When we hike/camp with the dogs, I will probably still use Frontline on them, but as a day to day preventative, I'd like to use something all natural if possible. Thanks!

[Batmom]

Fipronil, the active ingredient in Frontline, is really safe for mammals and really bad for ticks.

[Guest chaoran22]

I know it's considered safe, especially since the amounts in Frontline can't even come close to fipronil poisoning, but there is some question about its effects that it makes me a little uncomfortable. It's supposedly very toxic to rabbits and somewhat toxic to rats so it does affect some mammals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fipronil#Toxicity It does seem very safe though (it's only classified as a "possible" carcinogen and it seems like EVERYTHING is listed as a carcinogen these days) and I try not to be too crazy about this stuff as anything, including stuff we eat, is potentially harmful so I will absolutely choose it over having bugs in my house, but I figure if there's an adequate alternative, it wouldn't hurt to go all natural.

[Batmom]

The toxicity to rats and rabbits is such that they'd have to eat or soak themselves in vast quantities of the stuff -- more than you'd put on your dog if you used it monthly all year.

Here is some actual data on tick repellants, which includes some data and remarks on essential oils of various sorts: http://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/6294/Reprints/paper189-2011.pdf .

 

Please remember that "natural" and "green" don't mean "safe," let alone effective.

[Guest chaoran22]

Thanks for that link, it's really interesting, and I'm going to look at it in more detail later tonight. As I mentioned already, I know the amounts of fipronil in Frontline don't even come close to what would be toxic. I also know that natural and green don't mean safe as I already said that I understand that everything contains compounds that have the potential to be harmful. And again, I know one can't be too crazy about living chemical-free, especially as it's not possible.

 

But my question isn't on all that, it's just wondering if there are other alternatives out there that might work well enough for us that don't contain fipronil. Specifically, I'm interested in Sergeant's stuff - it's an octopamine disruptor and supposedly octopamine does not exist in humans so it might be a good option if it actually works. I do appreciate any and all information all of you can provide as that's why I'm here (the link seems like great info!), but I just wanted to clarify my actual question.

[Batmom]

I've not found any evidence that the botanical products work well as repellants or at all as topical insecticides, so I'd be genuinely interested in any evidence you turn up.

 

My personal feeling is, I'd rather use the small amount of insecticide needed to prevent infestation (which is a danger here) than the astonishingly large amount needed to treat an infestation (which I've had to do once or twice, oh ick). But, I realize others may have different risks and needs.

[GeorgeofNE]

I'm very dubious about any of the so-called natural products. I think if they actually WORKED we'd know about it by now!

 

I'm wondering how you're applying Frontline if it's dripping off? I've been using topical preventatives for many years, and that has never happened.

 

I don't squeeze it all out at once--and I use about a 3 inch long "swath" at the base of his neck just where it turns into his back.

[duncan41]

Been there, done that - oils, holistic/organic/natural sprays; "specially treated" tags for collars, fabric softener sheets and anything lean, mean and green. Tried Advantage II for the first time this month and so far, so good here in Florida - otherwise known as flea, tick and mosquito he11.

Edited August 6, 2011 by duncan41

[Sambuca]

I just had this talk with my vet. If you use a preventic collar, heartguard plus and comfortis it will kill ticks and fleas. There is nothing topical, but there is the preventic collar which I already use and feel very safe around. I don't feel it leaves any type of residue even when I touch it. I still wash my hands after I really handle it but I'm not peranoid if I'm petting the dogs.

[seeh2o]

Diatomaceous Earth is working well for lots of folks. It is all natural, no chemicals. It is good for fleas, though I don't know about ticks. I think you can apply it weekly or every couple of weeks.

[Guest chaoran22]

Keeping the formula on them is more of a problem with my girl (who has very thin hair) than it is with my boy (as fluffy as a lab, and getting fluffier as he gets older) but it happens with both of them. I also do about a 3 inch swath right between their shoulder blades. Whenever I apply it, both dogs immediately flop down on their beds and as much as I try to get them to lie down on their stomachs, they always end up on their sides, and we always get big Frontline stains on the beds from where they lay. I don't think it's so much dripping down as it is touching the bed and being absorbed into the fabric but either way, a lot of it ends upon the bed. And I part their hair and apply it directly onto their necks. Any tips for better application on my part?

[JJNg]

Any tips for better application on my part?

Timing. I try to apply it before a walk, or a trip to the park, etc so they will stay upright at least for a period immediately after application. Also, as your applying it, extend your 'strip' so that it is distributed more along skin and there is less to run off into hair - so your swath may end up more like 4-5 inches. After a few hours, I figure what's on top of the hair isn't getting down to the skin anyway. So I'll take a wet paper towel and wipe the greasy spot following the grain of the hair, to cut down on it getting on the furniture and dog beds.

[Guest cruzNhounds]

Thinking of giving Nematodes a try in the yard.

[Guest snakes]

I use Ectopamine spray that was recommended by my vet who uses natural/holistic products when possible. I don't go in high tick areas often but if we are going for a walk in the woods or to visit nearby people that are in high tick areas i give them a spray beforehand and it has worked really well. One warning is that it STINKS of cloves once you put it on and anything they will lay on, i try to put it on before a walk so it dries up a bit. The dogs usually try to run around and rub against stuff to get the smell off after i spray it on as well which is why i walk right after

 

Rose Geranium oil has been proven to be very effective as a tick repellent in humans and dogs, the mixture is usually 30% geranium oil and oil, so i don't know if that would really solve your problem of not having goopy stuff on your dog.

This is just one link: http://www.experience-essential-oils.com/tick-repellent-for-dogs.html

Edited August 6, 2011 by snakes

[Guest firegypsy]

I'm very dubious about any of the so-called natural products. I think if they actually WORKED we'd know about it by now!

 

I'm wondering how you're applying Frontline if it's dripping off? I've been using topical preventatives for many years, and that has never happened.

 

I don't squeeze it all out at once--and I use about a 3 inch long "swath" at the base of his neck just where it turns into his back.

 

 

we'll have to agree to disagree on that one! There's just not enough money to be made on the natural cures so there's not even a fraction of the money put into funding studies. It's not that they're not as effective, it's that they're not as lucrative so "we" don't bother looking. Patenting a new med will bring in far more in terms of the cash.

 

Anyway, that said while there are a variety of natural methods that do work beautifully for humans (despite the lack of studies) I don't know about their efficacy or safety for hounds. Even essential oils, which can be great tick repellents (rose geranium oil specifically) can be toxic and not knowing where the line is drawn in terms of safety I just can't do it.

 

D. earth and certain kinds of clay can be excellent too, but I'm just not up on the information. I'm looking into it now. For me though, number one priority is keeping the hounds safe, happy and healthy. Until I have some great info I'm going to have to stick with what I know works.

[Hubcitypam]

I'll just say that I would be VERY hard pressed to use any product by either Heartz or Sergeants.

 

Luckily we have no ticks here and Advantage works great on fleas as needed -- which is seldom, especially this year. Most things outside have been cremated by the drought and heat.

[Neighsayer]

I have used one of those herbal spot ons, but not sure if that is the one I used. The house and dogs smelled great... As did the ticks when I pulled them off the dogs. I never had much luck with frontline, either.

[Hubcitypam]

I have used one of those herbal spot ons, but not sure if that is the one I used. The house and dogs smelled great... As did the ticks when I pulled them off the dogs.

:lol

[Guest chaoran22]

I'll just say that I would be VERY hard pressed to use any product by either Heartz or Sergeants.

 

Can you elaborate on that? I don't know much about either company but are they not trustworthy with their products or something? If so, it's definitely something I would like to know about.

 

In any case, it sounds like there might be some natural alternatives but I haven't been able to find a whole lot of information after researching them, so for the lack of information (on both efficacy and safety), I'm going to err on the safe side and probably stick with Frontline for now. (We get it for free anyway through my dog's blood donation program.) Thanks for all the chiming in everyone! I'm going to continue keeping an eye and ear out for alternatives but for now, Frontline still seems like the best option, all things considered. I will definitely try all of your tips on better application though - thanks!!

[Guest mirinaaronsmom]

I've been using Sentry's Natural Defense this summer. We don't come into too much contact with ticks or fleas around here, but they are out there. I'm not sure if it's as effective as Frontline but it's working so far. I feel a lot better using this - I just don't have that yucky feeling after applying it (like I can't wait to get inside and wash my hands) and I'm not as nervous if kids/people pet the dogs after application. And they smell very clovey and cinnamony. I always take them for walks or go to the dog park after applying it. Mojo likes to sleep on his back, so inevitably his bed smells spicy for awhile, but I'd rather have that than Frontline. And it's a lot cheaper.

 

Here are the ingredients:

Peppermint Oil…3.00%

Cinnamon Oil…4.50%

Lemon Grass Oil…4.50%

Clove Oil…5.00%

Thyme Oil…5.00%

Other Ingredients…78.00%

[krissn333]

It's the "Other Ingredients" that I wouldn't trust. You never know what that might be, and I'm not even sure how they can get away with not disclosing what comprises 78% of the product

[GeorgeofNE]

Keeping the formula on them is more of a problem with my girl (who has very thin hair) than it is with my boy (as fluffy as a lab, and getting fluffier as he gets older) but it happens with both of them. I also do about a 3 inch swath right between their shoulder blades. Whenever I apply it, both dogs immediately flop down on their beds and as much as I try to get them to lie down on their stomachs, they always end up on their sides, and we always get big Frontline stains on the beds from where they lay. I don't think it's so much dripping down as it is touching the bed and being absorbed into the fabric but either way, a lot of it ends upon the bed. And I part their hair and apply it directly onto their necks. Any tips for better application on my part?

 

Take them outside, on a leash. Apply it in four or five small squirts. Go for a walk!

 

I just did George yesterday, and I thought of you as I did. No drips!

[turbotaina]

That's what I do - apply the Frontline, then go for a walk. Turbo also had a pretty thin coat and if we didn't do it this way, the Frontline would be all over everything.

[Guest auforygirl]

the other ingredients in natural defense is Vanillin, and Isopropyl myristate

Isopropyl myristate is used in cosmetic and topical medicinal preparations where good absorption through the skin is desired. It is also used as a pesticide-free treatment against head lice which works by dissolving the wax that covers the exoskeleton of head lice, killing them by dehydration.

[PatricksMom]

I'm wondering how you're applying Frontline if it's dripping off? I've been using topical preventatives for many years, and that has never happened.

 

I don't squeeze it all out at once--and I use about a 3 inch long "swath" at the base of his neck just where it turns into his back.

 

I got the tip from another GTer (can't remember who, sorry), but I apply much of the way down the spine, never had any problem.