Ok, I'll Eat. No I Won't. Yes I Will. No I Won't...

[DevilDog]

Sage is and always has been my problem child. My major issue with her is her eating habits.. This is a partial plea for ideas, and a partial rant.

 

I've had Sage for nearly 15 months. She's always been picky with food. She has a sensitive stomach and we are limited in our kibble choices because she either has horrible pudding poo, deadly gas and/or a growly belly with throwing up bile. She loves the food that makes her sick, but won't eat the food that works for her system. Purina One has been the only food that gives her decent poop, no gas, and she likes it well enough.

 

Well she goes through phases where she eats like a champ, and then phases where she refuses to eat. These cycles seem to happen on average once a month. She eats everything with gusto for 2 weeks, and then refuses everything for one week, wash, rinse, repeat. I figure maybe she's bored with the Purina, so I add different flavors of wet food, or pumpkin, or bits of chicken etc. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. When she doesn't eat, her belly makes horrible growling noises. I know she needs to eat, but her belly hurts so she won't eat. I have to tempt her with cookies to settle her stomach so she'll eat her kibble. Sometimes she refuses the cookies as well. That's what I'm dealing with right now. She's refusing breakfast, dinner, and gets excited and takes her cookies, but just drops them on her bed and stares at them.

 

When I try to get her to eat she just lays there with this annoying stubborn look on her face and doesn't look at me. "If I don't look at Mommy she can't see me..."

 

Honestly, she's all over the map. I'd like a REASON for this behavior. It can't be her environment- she did this since day one when I was living alone, and continues to do it after we moved in with my BF. I don't think it's stress because she's actually blossoming in other areas (playing more, etc). She's continuously dropping weight down to 57-58 and then when I get her to eat she goes back up to her ideal 60.... and then we start the cycle all over again.

 

So.. help?

 

The string bean in question.

I'm just trying to keep my girlish figure, Mom

Edited July 12, 2011 by DevilDog

[Guest Swifthounds]

Have you tried lowering the amount of food at each meal? That willoften help if she is just self regulating. It's hard to tell from a single photo, but he doesn't look thin.

[Wonder]

Lucky is the same way, switched him to raw and he's never turned his nose up

 

 

[DevilDog]

Have you tried lowering the amount of food at each meal? That willoften help if she is just self regulating. It's hard to tell from a single photo, but he doesn't look thin.

 

I've messed with the amounts in the past. Right now she gets 1.5 cups dry in the morning, and 3 cups dry with a little wet food or pumpkin for dinner.. At that amount (when she decides to eat well for 3 weeks or so), she maintains the 60 lbs. Any less and she just drops the weight.

 

She is quite thin.. not grossly so, but you can see nearly all the ribs and the hip points are very prominent.. that's at 60 lbs. So going down in weight is no good.

Edited June 30, 2011 by DevilDog

[PrairieProf]

Ugh, sounds frustrating. I've never had problems with Beth eating except for one stretch last winter, which I now believe was related to the issue below though I can't prove it. I'll throw out two suggestions though:

 

--Have her pancreatic enzymes checked. Beth's sensitive stomach was, I think, related to a sub-acute pancreatic issue that we finally diagnosed. And a friend's grey and galgo were recently found to have "sky-high" pancreatic enzymes too. Beth is vastly better now that she's on a low-fat, moderate protein diet. Purina is pretty high in fat, FWIW (isn't it around 17%?). Beth never had gas or throwing up issues, though.

 

--I was skeptical and the ingredients don't sound great, but Beth is now on Hill's Prescription I/D and has consistently perfect (or near-perfect) poop. Not a single loose poop incident since she got stabilized on this. She really likes it too (I feed mostly dry with a little canned mixed in), though she likes pretty much everything she's ever been offered. I was totally surprised, since I thought she too needed limited ingredients etc. It seems like low fat, low residue is what works best for her. If Sage's belly hurts, you just might find this or a similar prescription food does the trick.

Edited June 30, 2011 by PrairieProf

[Guest brcgreys]

If she doesn't have a problem with beef, you can make fat balls for her, they're a small portion of food but loaded with calories. If beef upsets her tummy, try chicken or vegetable broth to wet her food, it usually only takes a little to entice them. Another good trick is cooking plain, white rice and adding to her food (a spin on this is to use chicken broth in the place of the water you cook it in. Maybe one of these ideas will be helpful.

[DevilDog]

Done the chicken broth and rice. Haven't tried fat balls though.

[PrairieProf]

Lisa, I'd really check pancreatic function before I fed fat balls. This is just something I've gotten very spooked about after my experience with Beth -- if a grey has a low-grade pancreatitis fat balls are are just the thing to push them over the edge into an acute incident.

[4My2Greys]

Removed post

Edited June 30, 2011 by 4My2Greys

[DevilDog]

Lisa, I'd really check pancreatic function before I fed fat balls. This is just something I've gotten very spooked about after my experience with Beth -- if a grey has a low-grade pancreatitis fat balls are are just the thing to push them over the edge into an acute incident.

 

True. But what kind of 'incident' are we talking?

[greytpups]

pancreatitis can be very serious.

[Guest Swifthounds]

She is quite thin.. not grossly so, but you can see nearly all the ribs and the hip points are very prominent.. that's at 60 lbs. So going down in weight is no good.

 

It's hard to visualize sometimes from photos, and especially with brindled, but hip points and visible ribs don't equate to a hound being too thin. Depending on individual build, this may be totally normal and appropriate for her - even if she "looks" underweight. My Comet was always a hard keeper and always had pronounced hip points and visible ribs, but his bloodwork was stellar, his energy food, and he was quite active. He never really cared fir any kibble. After the switch to raw he ate like a champ and kept his weight rigt up until his last few weeks battling cancer. His (littermate) brother got fat just from looking at food.

 

I would suggest blood work and a check for pancreatic function as well. Intestinal parasites are cyclical and could be a suspect unless you've gone down that road.

[greyhead]

I would suggest blood work and a check for pancreatic function as well. Intestinal parasites are cyclical and could be a suspect unless you've gone down that road.

I was thinking about worms too. And as I always mention, a negative fecal doesn't mean they don't have worms, it just means the worms aren't shedding eggs that the test can detect that day.

[DevilDog]

She is quite thin.. not grossly so, but you can see nearly all the ribs and the hip points are very prominent.. that's at 60 lbs. So going down in weight is no good.

 

It's hard to visualize sometimes from photos, and especially with brindled, but hip points and visible ribs don't equate to a hound being too thin. Depending on individual build, this may be totally normal and appropriate for her - even if she "looks" underweight. My Comet was always a hard keeper and always had pronounced hip points and visible ribs, but his bloodwork was stellar, his energy food, and he was quite active. He never really cared fir any kibble. After the switch to raw he ate like a champ and kept his weight rigt up until his last few weeks battling cancer. His (littermate) brother got fat just from looking at food.

 

I would suggest blood work and a check for pancreatic function as well. Intestinal parasites are cyclical and could be a suspect unless you've gone down that road.

 

oh no no. I don't think she's too thin, she'll always be very lean. I understand thats the way she is built. I guess the point I was trying to make is that she's already so lean, she really doesn't need to lose the weight. She's just beautiful at 60 (ribs, hip points, bony spine and all), and that's her ideal weight. But I can tell a huge difference when she gets down to 57. Just a couple pounds, but makes a big difference. That's when she starts to look "too thin". I just want to keep her at 60, and keep her eating! That's really the issue.. wondering why she decides to stop and start eating seemingly out of the blue.

 

I would suggest blood work and a check for pancreatic function as well. Intestinal parasites are cyclical and could be a suspect unless you've gone down that road.

I was thinking about worms too. And as I always mention, a negative fecal doesn't mean they don't have worms, it just means the worms aren't shedding eggs that the test can detect that day.

 

She had worms when I first adopted her. Hooks if I remember correctly. Her poo was positively disgusting. Her poo is normal now.. she just isn't eating.

 

But I hear what you're saying.

[Guest Swifthounds]

With hooks you can have a low grade infestation if it wasn't knocked out hard and fast, or us she had them for a good long while. I might go ahead and treat for hooks and see if that helps. Hooks can also be a source of digestive malabsorption as well.

[Guest NJgrey]

Ugh, sounds frustrating. I've never had problems with Beth eating except for one stretch last winter, which I now believe was related to the issue below though I can't prove it. I'll throw out two suggestions though:

 

--Have her pancreatic enzymes checked. Beth's sensitive stomach was, I think, related to a sub-acute pancreatic issue that we finally diagnosed. And a friend's grey and galgo were recently found to have "sky-high" pancreatic enzymes too. Beth is vastly better now that she's on a low-fat, moderate protein diet. Purina is pretty high in fat, FWIW (isn't it around 17%?). Beth never had gas or throwing up issues, though.

 

 

 

 

I second this. We adopted Ellie last February. Up until end of October she was doing the same as Sage. Try a new food, eat it like crazy for 2 weeks, stop eating it altogether. Switch foods, same thing. Try home cooked and partial raw, same thing. A few good weeks followed by turning up her nose. Finally it all came to a head in late October. She had a horrible bout of colitis and HGE, bleeding all over the house. Took her to the e-vet and her pancreatic enzymes were elevated or otherwise out of whack. She was also severely dehydrated. Spent three days in the hospital getting IV fluids and meds. She's been golden ever since. Started her off on Hill's i/d then moved to Wellness Core low fat.

 

Thing about pancreatitis is, when that's inflamed, everything they consume hurts, and that includes water. We didn't know she was in discomfort because she still walked and played like normal, but she clearly knew eating made her hurt and didn't want to do it. Looking back on it we should have just let her not eat instead of forcing her by offering new and exciting food.

 

I guess the moral of the story is, couldn't hurt to have the test done just to be sure. If it's negative, you know it's more likely she's just being picky and can feed accordingly. If there is something going on, you've caught something that can be life threatening under certain circumstances. No harm.

[DevilDog]

And all that's needed is a blood test? And specifically ask for them to check the pancreatic enzymes?

[PrairieProf]

Yes -- tell the vet you want to check for a low-grade pancreatic issue. I'm a bit confused about the exact test, because the usual test for pancreatitis is a cPL, but my vet did a TLI test (which tests for pancreatic insufficiency as well as high levels of enzymes, which are indicative of pancreatitis) both initially (when we were just trying to figure out what might be going on with a persistent case of D) and to monitor Beth on re-tests. The cPL is a quick, in-office test, the TLI has to be sent out to a lab, and is $$ -- but I have a great vet and I'm sure there was a reason that the TLI was better for our purposes -- I think I asked him at one point but I don't recall or didn't quite grasp the answer. But it will surely be one of these.

 

The cure for Beth was the I/D and a month of Flagyl (followed by another few weeks of slowly tapering down the dose). My understanding is that the Flagyl is used for its antiinflammatory qualities, not its antibacterial ones. Beth's TLI came down from 33.8 (35 is indicative of acute pancreatitis!), to 14 after a month of treatment, to 9 several weeks after we discontinued the Flagyl.

Edited June 30, 2011 by PrairieProf

[heartdogs]

Also have her folaye levels checked. If her B12 is low is will mess up her eating & keeping the weight on too.

[PrairieProf]

Also have her folate levels checked. If her B12 is low is will mess up her eating & keeping the weight on too.

 

That's right, we had that checked too when we did the initial pancreatic function test.

[Guest zombrie]

Sounds like a milder case of Doolin's problem. He absolutely cannot eat kibble. We couldn't give him anything that wouldn't give him bloody diarrhea. He was eating, but dropped below his racing weight. We finally have him figured out. He gets lamb or bison with Preference, tripe(which he LOVES) and the real medicine - sweet potatoes. He had never had a solid poop until I started giving him potatoes.

 

Just thought I'd add, Doolin had a bad case of hooks which is most likely what caused his tummy issues. I'd get Sage wormed again. Hooks can be incredibly hard to get rid of.

Edited July 1, 2011 by zombrie

[Guest iconsmum]

Sage is and always has been my problem child. My major issue with her is her eating habits.. This is a partial plea for ideas, and a partial rant.

 

I've had Sage for nearly 15 months. She's always been picky with food. She has a sensitive stomach and we are limited in our kibble choices because she either has horrible pudding poo, deadly gas and/or a growly belly with throwing up bile. She loves the food that makes her sick, but won't eat the food that works for her system. Purina One has been the only food that gives her decent poop, no gas, and she likes it well enough.

 

Well she goes through phases where she eats like a champ, and then phases where she refuses to eat. These cycles seem to happen on average once a month. She eats everything with gusto for 2 weeks, and then refuses everything for one week, wash, rinse, repeat. I figure maybe she's bored with the Purina, so I add different flavors of wet food, or pumpkin, or bits of chicken etc. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. When she doesn't eat, her belly makes horrible growling noises. I know she needs to eat, but her belly hurts so she won't eat. I have to tempt her with cookies to settle her stomach so she'll eat her kibble. Sometimes she refuses the cookies as well. That's what I'm dealing with right now. She's refusing breakfast, dinner, and gets excited and takes her cookies, but just drops them on her bed and stares at them.

 

When I try to get her to eat she just lays there with this annoying stubborn look on her face and doesn't look at me. "If I don't look at Mommy she can't see me..."

 

Honestly, she's all over the map. I'd like a REASON for this behavior. It can't be her environment- she did this since day one when I was living alone, and continues to do it after we moved in with my BF. I don't think it's stress because she's actually blossoming in other areas (playing more, etc). She's continuously dropping weight down to 57-58 and then when I get her to eat she goes back up to her ideal 60.... and then we start the cycle all over again.

 

So.. help?

 

The string bean in question.

I'm just trying to keep my girlish figure, Mom

 

 

 

 

 

It sounds like someone should look at er esophagus - maybe her motility is low or it's spasming and she has the feeling that it's packed full - that comment about her just dropping a

the cookie and looking at it says something's maybe physically wrong.

[Greytlady94]

Lisa, I'd really check pancreatic function before I fed fat balls. This is just something I've gotten very spooked about after my experience with Beth -- if a grey has a low-grade pancreatitis fat balls are are just the thing to push them over the edge into an acute incident.

 

I agree, pancreatitis is not only very painful it can kill quickly.

[GeorgeofNE]

Have you tried lowering the amount of food at each meal? That willoften help if she is just self regulating. It's hard to tell from a single photo, but he doesn't look thin.

 

I've messed with the amounts in the past. Right now she gets 1.5 cups dry in the morning, and 3 cups dry with a little wet food or pumpkin for dinner.. At that amount (when she decides to eat well for 3 weeks or so), she maintains the 60 lbs. Any less and she just drops the weight.

 

She is quite thin.. not grossly so, but you can see nearly all the ribs and the hip points are very prominent.. that's at 60 lbs. So going down in weight is no good.

 

Hmmmm. George weighs 64 pounds, and I give him one cup in the AM and one cup in the PM. He does get treats throughout the day.

 

4.5 cups seems like an awful lot for a 60 pound girl. And she doesn't look underweight to me at all.

 

Gurgly tummy sounds like excess acid, perhaps. Have you tried a daily Pepcid (with your vet's approval). That helped my last dog a LOT. He used to vomit ALL THE TIME until I started the Pepcid.

[DevilDog]

4.5 cups is a lot of food. At some point when she was doing the eat/won't eat thing, I upped her food intake to get some weight back on her at a point she dropped too low. It used to be, if I fed her more than 3-3.5 cups, she just pooped it out, so I knew her body wasn't using it. But then, recently, it seems her body is using it. Her poops have been great and not in excess. I figured it was what it was. If she was doing well, maintaining 60 lbs w great poops then all was well, kwim?

 

The gurgly tummy isn't an every day occurance. Used to be a year ago, till we settled on Purina and a large cookie at night, now it only happens if she doesn't eat breakfast.. then I can hear her belly before dinner.

 

Oh, and she ate dinner last night. With gusto I might add. I made some pot roast an mixed her kibble with a little of the gravy and she gobbled it up. Her night time cookie was eaten as well.. with a little hesitation i the beginning. She took it to her bed, ate a little, looked at it and me for a few minutes, then finished it. She ate maybe a quarter of her breakfast this morning.