Biting And Possessive

[schultzlc]

I have littermates. One is a shy girl who is a bit of velcro-dog, and though she isn't apt to approach other people, she is attached to me. The other is a very happy girl whose tail never stops wagging and who is always moments away from nuzzling her head into your lap...but she has a dark side. She has become very possessive of her sister.

 

If I get too close to my shy grey (which is impossible to avoid, since she loves to follow me) she will lunge at me snarling. In the past three days, she has bitten me twice. The first time she came at me while I was brushing her sister's teeth. I think from now on I will have to muzzle her while I am taking care of grooming activities. The second time was this morning. I was sitting on the living room floor with my laptop and my shy girl moved in for a belly rub. Out of nowhere she came out of a dead sleep and rushed over and bit me again, this time breaking the skin and drawing blood. This is concerning to me, because it shows me that these are not just warning nips.

 

When this unacceptable behavior occurs, I sternly tell her "no no" and tell her to go lay down on her pillow, like a doggy time-out. She listens without an issue and becomes very submissive when scolded. She will stay there for about a half hour looking sad, but then she is back at my side begging for forgiveness.

 

The other adverse effect of this situation is that my shy grey becomes very nervous when her sister acts aggressively. She will go hide in her crate and refuse to come out, and has had loose stools since the first bite, which I am guessing is coming from stress.

 

I have had my shy girl since early March, and just brought her sister in a week ago. They are my first greys as an adult, and I am worried that I may have bit off more than I can chew. Any advice you have on this issue would be greatly appreciated!!

[macoduck]

Is it an actual attack type bite or a playful (though overboard) nip?

[schultzlc]

This is definitely not playful. It's a scary, snarling, exposed teeth, ears pinned back, hair up on the back of the neck, aggressive bite.

 

Even now as I write this and they are sprawled out on pillows napping, I walked over to my shy grey and I immediatly hear her sister start growling.

[jenners]

This is definitely not playful. It's a scary, snarling, exposed teeth, ears pinned back, hair up on the back of the neck, aggressive bite.

 

Even now as I write this and they are sprawled out on pillows napping, I walked over to my shy grey and I immediatly hear her sister start growling.

 

This sounds serious and scary. The last thing you want is for someone to be seriously hurt and for the new dog to get a bite record. I think you need to call your adoption group ASAP and I think maybe the new girlie needs to be in a different place

 

Jennifer

[JAJ2010]

I would say it's time for trainer and to see how your adoption group can help. Not every dog is right for every home. Meanwhile I would keep her muzzled and start nilf right away! Which is nothing in life is free. She should never walk through a doorway in front of you. No couch privileges i would even go as far as no dog bed privileges. She needs to work for her food, affection, comfort, etc. Also start some heavy duty obedience training. This sounds very dangerous and needs to be addressed asap.

 

I would also get her to the vet for full thyroid panel and tested for tbd. And please let the adoption group help, they may be able to place her in as better suited home and give you a more confident grey to help your shy girl.

[Sighthounds4me]

I would look into medical first. It's possible she is feeling pain in some way, which causes her to strike out. Or, perhaps there is a thyroid problem.

 

Rule out medical first, then think about behavior modification/rehoming.

[schultzlc]

I contacted the adoption group earlier today, and am waiting to hear what they have to say.

 

I have heard about dogs guarding over food, toys, pillows, etc, but never over each other. Has anyone else ever had experiences with this?

 

I am also confused by why she has faith in me on a one-on-one basis, but does not seem to trust me with her sister. I can't help but wonder why she displays this behavior here, but in her foster home, where there were multiple greys, she had no problem. Perhaps she has a special bond because they are littermates. I just don't know.

 

The rest of the time she is an absolute joy, and I do believe that she has the potential to be a wonderful pet. It breaks my heart to say it, but the thought has crossed my mind that she might do better in a home where she is the only dog.

 

Lastly, I have looked into trainers in my area (which is in the middle of nowhere in central VA), but unfortunately have come up empty-handed. The only trainers available work at the local groomers, and they only have a background in basic obedience training.

[schultzlc]

Oh, and about NILF...what do you do with a girl who already prefers the floor over her pillow (it's really hot outside), is uninterested in toys and has not yet discovered the glorious comfort of furniture? I don't really want to mess with her food, because she came off the track in need of gaining a couple of pounds, plus she shows no aggression around feeding time. I have been witholding affection, partly because I don't want her thinking that she can come back and everything will be normal, and partly, quite frankly, because she is making me nervous. Any tips?

[jenners]

Might you be willing to email me privately? I guess you're too new to be PM-ed yet? I'm at advohws @ aol . com (remove all the spaces)

 

Jennifer

 

 

[schultzlc]

Thanks Jennifer! I sent you an email through my gmail account.

 

Laura

 

Might you be willing to email me privately? I guess you're too new to be PM-ed yet? I'm at advohws @ aol . com (remove all the spaces)

 

Jennifer

[Batmom]

If she's going out of her way to bite you, she needs to go back to her foster home until she can be evaluated by a behaviorist. You could muzzle, but keep in mind that if you muzzle one you must muzzle all -- you can't leave muzzled + unmuzzled dogs unattended together even for an instant. Hoping your adoption group will step up and help. Best luck.

[Guest Giselle]

Bites to humans necessarily require a visit from a behaviorist or veterinary behaviorist, unless you yourself are a professional. It has the potential to go very badly if you don't seek professional help. In many (most!) cases, human-directed aggression is in large part due to human error.

 

As you've noticed, most basic trainers have a very poor understanding of complex problems like aggression, guarding, stress, and frustration (all of which may be factors in your case. Unfortunately, we folks online cannot in good conscience give you advice. It would be unethical and unprofessional, so please visit these sites to help locate a behaviorist in your area:

 

Veterinary behaviorists:

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=79&Itemid=357

Behaviorists:

http://animalbehaviorsociety.org/

Qualified Trainers:

http://www.ccpdt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40&Itemid=32

&

http://www.sfspca.org/resources/library/for-dog-owners/dog-trainers-walkers

 

Good luck!

[Ragsysmum]

Surprised they let you take litter sisters as litter siblings can often be difficult especially females. Might be better and safer long term to let her go back and find a compatible male for your shy girl.

[Guest BrianRke]

This is definitely not playful. It's a scary, snarling, exposed teeth, ears pinned back, hair up on the back of the neck, aggressive bite.

 

Even now as I write this and they are sprawled out on pillows napping, I walked over to my shy grey and I immediatly hear her sister start growling.

 

This sounds serious and scary. The last thing you want is for someone to be seriously hurt and for the new dog to get a bite record. I think you need to call your adoption group ASAP and I think maybe the new girlie needs to be in a different place

 

Jennifer

I agree. It is never acceptable for a dog to bite you in that manner. She may need to be in a different home. Im not sure she is being protective of her sister, she may just not want you giving attention to another dog. I would definitely call your adoption group and see what advice they offer.

 

Let us know how this all works out.

[schultzlc]

Thank you all for your responses, I appreciate your feedback.

 

I have talked to several people and thought things over last night (didn't sleep much...). I think we've all come to the conclusion that I simply am not equipped with the experience needed to deal with a situation like this. It will break my heart to let her go because I know she has the potential to be a wonderful dog, but I can't help but feel like she will be happier in a home where she doesn't feel the need to compete and protect.

 

I have notified my rescue group, we'll see what they have to say...

[Guest Swifthounds]

And she will be a wonderful dog for the right person for her needs. And you can take some time with tour hound and if/ when your ready add a dog that's a better fit for you both.

[GeorgeofNE]

Thank you all for your responses, I appreciate your feedback.

 

I have talked to several people and thought things over last night (didn't sleep much...). I think we've all come to the conclusion that I simply am not equipped with the experience needed to deal with a situation like this. It will break my heart to let her go because I know she has the potential to be a wonderful dog, but I can't help but feel like she will be happier in a home where she doesn't feel the need to compete and protect.

 

I have notified my rescue group, we'll see what they have to say...

 

 

I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but I see that you have already reached the point I would have tried to guide you to.

 

This is not the right dog for your home.

 

The notion that a thyroid problem or a tick disease would make a dog attack ONLY when you went near your other dog (and I personally would not place much emphasis on being litter mates--it doesn't sound to me like she's worried about you being near her sister, it sounds to me as if she wants all the attention for herself) is kind of silly, frankly. Health problems don't come and go that way.

 

It could be she needs to be an only dog, and fear not. There are plenty of folks, like me, who can only have one dog at a time anyway.

 

Best to part ways before she seriously injures you, or someone else.

 

Best wishes to you--I am sure she will find the right place.

[TheFullHouse]

It would take someone very experienced with this problem to deal with it. I think you've made the right decision.

[JAJ2010]

You made a difficult but great decision! Hopefully your group can help you find a better fit for you and your timid girl. Keep us posted on how this turns out. ( Hugs)

[Guest RichardUK]

Have to say I do sympathise and agree with your decision. It is far better for all three of you to separate so she can relax.

[Sighthounds4me]

The notion that a thyroid problem or a tick disease would make a dog attack ONLY when you went near your other dog (and I personally would not place much emphasis on being litter mates--it doesn't sound to me like she's worried about you being near her sister, it sounds to me as if she wants all the attention for herself) is kind of silly, frankly. Health problems don't come and go that way.

 

Um, wow. I don't really like the fact that my ideas were called "silly." MOST of the time on this forum, and in dogs in general, we are encouraged to rule out medical first.

 

I understand that maybe you don't consider it an appropriate protocol in this case, but "silly" is an awfully flip word to use, and makes those of us who suggested medical a little defensive. Instead, stating "The notion that a thyroid problem or a tick disease would make a dog attack ONLY when you went near your other dog *seems inappropriate in this particular case,*" might have been better received.

 

I feel a little rotten that what would have otherwise been a good suggestion is passed off so easily. Sorry I posted.

 

AND, I apologize for the hijack. Back to the topic:

 

I agree that in this case, perhaps this dog needs to go to a single-dog home. But I still stand by my suggestion of ruling out medical. Assuming the adoption group does the testing, after the dog is returned, what could it hurt?

[MaryJane]

Just a note that it might not be wise to assume that the attacks are from her being protective/possessive of her sister - they are probably being caused by her wanting to have "all the attention". Her sister is probably scared because she might be understanding (the way that dogs know when another dog wants to be dominant) that the new dog would be biting her if she was near you or in the vicinity.

 

As someone suggested, a muzzle might be a wise path to pursue for the time being

[kudzu]

MOST of the time on this forum, and in dogs in general, we are encouraged to rule out medical first.

 

Yes, and for good reason. Your suggestion for a vet visit with blood work was a sound one & quite appropriate.

[jenners]

You have made a loving and caring decision that is best for both of the dogs and for you. Bless you! She would thank you if she could, your second girl, for getting her to a safe place before anyone gets unfixably hurt.

 

Hugs,

Jennifer

 

 

[GeorgeofNE]

The notion that a thyroid problem or a tick disease would make a dog attack ONLY when you went near your other dog (and I personally would not place much emphasis on being litter mates--it doesn't sound to me like she's worried about you being near her sister, it sounds to me as if she wants all the attention for herself) is kind of silly, frankly. Health problems don't come and go that way.

 

Um, wow. I don't really like the fact that my ideas were called "silly." MOST of the time on this forum, and in dogs in general, we are encouraged to rule out medical first.

 

Sorry if the word "silly" offensive. How about I change that to "so unlikely as to be virtually impossible."

 

Having lived with two dogs who had actual thyroid issues, as well as a mother who had a tumor on her thyroid and had the entire gland removed, I get very weary of the CONSTANT calls to "run a thyroid panel" when the issue is, to me, clearly behavioral.