Grey's And Ace Promezine

[Guest mommyx5]

My grey shattered her hock on Sunday. Surgery on Tuesday. While the ortho surgeon is a brilliant surgeon, he is no, and I mean NO pharmacologist for Greys. I told him that she was having a bad reaction to the Tramadol the ER vet put her on (Sunday) and that she needed some Valium or Xanax to keep her less anxious. He agreed. Unbeknownst to me, he kept her on Tramadol and gave her Ace Promezine to relax her. Crikey. You can't adopt a grey without a list of drugs they can not take. Ace is one of them. Poor thing is stoned out of her gourd right now, doesn't even know the leg hurts. They told me on discharge that my greatest challenge would be keeping her off the leg. "She had already broken a splint" under their care because she was feeling no pain....

I wonder why?

I gave her 100 CC's of Pumpkin when I got her home. It naturally detoxifies and acts like activated charcoal. Hopefully, I can flush the Ace from her system. I learned the "pumpkin" trick from an old timer -- my father. I've only had one Veterinarian validate it. He said it was "brilliant." It would put the rest of them out of business if they knew you could have a home remedy for toxins in your pantry.

1. I need to know from the rest of you if Ace is as bad as they tell you for greys.

2. I know Ace has a very long half life. Is there a possibility that she will have long term complications due to pharmacuetical mismanagement?

 

I am hot, I am livid and I am passionate about the matter of the proper pharmacology of greyhounds. I read Latin and I can break down any drug into it's compounds. While I am still furious, I am also a lawyer. Oh, yeah, that's a really Big Woof when you are crying about your dog.

Example:

the drug they give to dogs for post-spay incontinence. I think they call it ProIn now -- I'll look it up. Oh, such a benign drug, just helps the dog feel urinary retention sooner and helps strengthen the bladder. Same drug was taken off the human market for causing hemorrhagic strokes human females.

Her name was Red Sizzler. She was a super winner and shattered a hock. She went into foster, and became an adoption return as "too much dog." I adopted her and paid a fortune on acupuncture. She loved it. It really helped her pain. She got her thunder foot back. However, she was mortified when her gentleman callers would come to visit to pet her and she would fall asleep, and then pee on them.

It mortified her. While we cured her leg, we killed her with medication that was supposed to be so benign.

[TheFullHouse]

I'm learning here on GT, that people either feel really strongly about not using Ace and then there are some of us that have had absolutely no issues with using it. My thunderphobic girls get it and I have had no problems with it at all. I do however, give it at low doses so my girls don't get "drunk" from it.

[Batmom]

If she's quiet and slow to move, that would be the reaction to Ace that the vet probably intended. Properly dosed, it's a safe drug. It isn't a pain reliever. Some dogs get along with it, some don't, as with any other med.

 

Hope your pup heals safely and well!

[Guest Swifthounds]

She isn't having any of the side effects normally seen with Ace, so it sounds like it's working as intended. I don't know where so many people got the misimpression that ace is contraindicated in greyhounds, but I hope it was from an adoption group and not a vet. It's not something to use without caution, but it's not toxic. Then again, what effect pumpkin might have on the liver is lost on me.

 

Hope the hock heals fast and well.

Edited June 4, 2011 by Swifthounds

[Guest KennelMom]

What Batmom said. I've not liked the reactions I've seen in my dogs, but I'd use it in the future if the situation warranted and the vet thought it was appropriate.

[tbhounds]

Acepromazine given at the proper dose can and is a safe drug to be given to GH's. It needs be to be given with care but, does have it's place. Ohio State uses it with GH's with some of their patients if warranted. Not unlike other drugs it needs to be used properly knowing the potential side effects.

Hope your hound heals well.

[Guest Sunset123]

My vet told me that Ace has no contraindications for sighthounds and he's comfortable prescribing it.

[BootsyCollins]

Our Argos was on a low dose of ace daily for a month to help keep him calm while healing from a traumatic injury. He did just fine.

[Guest FullMetalFrank]

Plumb's Veterinary Drug handbook states that "greyhounds and some giant breeds may be hypersensitive to the effects" of acepromazine. To me that reads, use with caution. I am not sure but I think that older editions of the book had a more stern warning against using it in greyhounds.

[Guest HHHounds]

We used low doses of Ace for Dee who was scared of storms. She did just fine with no side effects.

[Guest BrianRke]

IMO, there are circumstances where ACE can be helpful. For example, a long car trip, or to keep your dog somewhat immobile during recovery from an injury. As far as giving it to them for anxiety, I think there are much better alternatives.

[krissn333]

We have used it before when needed. It just doesn't take much to work on them because of their low amount of body fat.

 

We had to use it weekly on a pup with a broken leg because she would flip out when we'd do her bandage change. She was a pretty extreme case though, I've never seen anything like it.

 

It wore off within about half an hour. In my experience it really doesn't stay in their system very long.

[greysmom]

I think the biggest problem many people have is that it is NOT a pain reliever or an anti-anxiety medication, but is used frequently (and incorrectly) to treat both. It's a sedative that simply makes the dog unable to respond to stimuli. They remain quiescent because their muscles are sort of paralyzed. The actually do feel pain and are scared, they just can't respond. So if the pain and anxiety are treated and ameliorated, and you need to keep the dog quiet, it is probably fine.

 

I did give one dose to Dude post-amp, but it drugged him out for two days. Plus, he didn't really need it as he'd stay quiet if someone was with him. I'd rather not use any drug if I can help it. Sometimes you can and sometimes you can't.

[TheFullHouse]

They remain quiescent because their muscles are sort of paralyzed.

 

This part I don't understand because both Bebe and Heart are able to walk around, get a drink, roach and anything else they want, they just don't shake and pant during a storm like they used to.

[LaFlaca]

Wendy is very sensitive to Ace; a low dose has knocked her out for two days. Having said that, I would not be against using it again if the situation warranted it

Edited June 4, 2011 by LaFlaca

[Batmom]

I think the biggest problem many people have is that it is NOT a pain reliever or an anti-anxiety medication, but is used frequently (and incorrectly) to treat both. It's a sedative that simply makes the dog unable to respond to stimuli. They remain quiescent because their muscles are sort of paralyzed.

 

That is not correct. It *does* seem to be a prevalent view on the internet, and even some vets seem to have made this mistake. The very popular Xanax and Valium have muscle relaxant properties -- they are more likely to render the dog unable to respond to stimuli. Acepromazine doesn't do that. It's a tranquilizer, plain and simple. That is why it has been used so much in pets and is many vets' first choice of anti-anxiety medications.

[Guest tricolorhounds]

We've had it prescribed several times by the orthopedic surgeon who treats all the injured dogs GAC takes in (he's been treating Greyhounds for a very long time.) The first time was when Savannah was being treated for her broken hock and then a couple of years later when she broke her leg. Because she is generally very quiet, we did not give it to her.

 

Last year Bonkers was injured pretty badly from a single bite... the skin on his side ripped over 12" and he had 3 surgeries to repair it. He was a horrible patient! he was only calm and quiet when you sat with him...the minute you got up he would start whining and crying. I broke down and gave him one ace at 9AM hoping he'd rest since we had an appointment with the vet later that afternoon. There was no change in his behavior until nearly 5PM when we were in the car on the way home. He started screaming and writhing in what looked like pain while in the back of the sequoia. I pulled over, got him out, checked to see if there was maybe a leftover stitch that was causing the pain.. then I called the vet back to see if they had any clue what could be going on. We finally figured out that the ace was starting to kick in finally and he was fighting it. Five minutes later, back on the road he finally gave up and passed out, slept all the way home. Won't ever give him ace again.

[greysmom]

Hmmmmm..... It's what a veterinarian told me. And it seemed to be Dude's reaction - though obviously I couldn't ask him. FWIW, xanax only takes the finest edge off Cash's spookiness and doesn't seem to relax any of her muscles!!

[Batmom]

Like any other drug, ace doesn't affect all animals the same way. There is some thinking that sighthounds are more sensitive to it and should be dosed much lower to start with. You also get a more predictable reaction with the injectable than with oral.

 

I can't take Ibuprofen. Doesn't mean it's a bad drug or that no graying brunettes of northern European heritage should ever take it.

[Guest mbfilby]

Ace is part of acceptable greyhound anesthesia protocol along with ketamine/propofol and iso/servoflurane. Ace should be dosed at 50% or less then other breeds.

[Guest mommyx5]

I am so greytfull for all of you for your comments and discussions. My Sky Rocket thanks you, as well. She finally ate tonight and had her first bowel movement since Sunday. It smarted a bit, half way out, but she was brave and pushed the rest out. I just cannot tell you all how much help you have been to me.

I am giving her half the recommended dosage by the Vet. She needs to feel some pain so she will protect her own leg. She broke a splint under their care -- she was over-medicated.

Thank all of you for helping out an hysterical mommy.

[CaliforniaGreys]

Ace is part of acceptable greyhound anesthesia protocol along with ketamine/propofol and iso/servoflurane. Ace should be dosed at 50% or less then other breeds.

 

I was just reading Suzanne Stack's notes on Ace as part of the anesthesia protocol, and she stated she would not give a GH more than 1mg

[Guest BlackandBrindle]

I trust Dr. Stack implicitly, so if she said to give the dog Ace than I would.

 

 

As far as feeling pain to keep her quiet, I'm going to respectfully disagree. I would personally contain her in a crate or expen and only take her on leash outings, even in the yard. While in Sandy Paws the vet who gave several talks was saying that pain/stress can be harmful and keep your dog from healing. I agree with the sentiment.

 

Of course only you know your dog and circumstances so if that's not feasible I do understand. I mean no offense by my statement, just passing along what I've been told.

 

I hope Sky Rocket has a quick and uneventful healing!

[Hubcitypam]

Have used Ace very rarely with no ill effects but seem to remember the dose was less than other dogs. (that was 10+ years ago).

The "broken a splint" worries me more than the Ace.

 

I trust Dr. Stack implicitly, so if she said to give the dog Ace than I would.

I'll second that.

[Batmom]

Keep in mind, tho, for something like thunderstorms you'd likely be dosing lower than for anaesthesia induction (I say "likely" because in the latter case, ace may be combined with other drugs).