Clomipramine Questions

[Laurenbiz]

Hello all-

 

As you probably know from my many other posts, Bernie has dealt with bad SA ever since we got him back in October 2010. Behavior modification techniques, crate training, safe rooms, belly band, DAP sprays/diffusers/collars, calming dog music, counter-conditioning training, 'calming' foods, etc., did not ever seem to help him. (The list goes on and on and on...)

 

Bernie has been taking Clompiramine since late January 2011. The vet gave us 2-week supplies of various doses at the beginning. The first 2 weeks, he was on 25mg, the next two weeks, 50mg. The original small dose was to make sure that the introduction of medication in his system did not cause stomach upsets. We kept building from there. He has now been on 75mg for about a month.

 

He is doing fabulous. He does not whine, howl, and tremble at the smallest sign that we may be leaving the house; nor do we come home to find puddles and/or brown presents on the floor! We now come home to a happy dog who has held his bladder and his bowls while he's alone.

 

I have a few questions:

* Even though I continue to do alone training, how long should I continue to keep him on the 75mg? I guess I'm wondering if any of you tried one month, two months at a 'good' dosage, and then weening off seemed too soon? (It's tricky to know if he's good with being alone after 100x alone training, or whether he's good just because of his medication!)

 

* How long can a Greyhound typically be on Clomipramine before we need to get concerned about negative side effects? I do understand that long-term use can cause liver complications; I am not sure how 'long' we're talking about when we say 'long-term' use

 

* Does Clomipramine cause dry skin? I don't have my RX patient info sheet with me at the moment to read the side effects. I feel, though, that Bernie's skin seems to keep getting drier and drier - I don't remember it being this dry last month or before that (at times when he was on a lower dose or not on the meds at all.)

 

Thank you in advance for your responses!

[MP_the4pack]

I had Jade on this last summer for her severe thunderphobia. I took her off for the winter not thinking we would have thunderstorms here in NJ. Would you believe this is the first time we've ever had thundersnow?! And TWICE to boot. And in Feb we had two rain storms with thunder. It's frigin February!

 

Anyway, she was off the clomipramine since about Nov. I didn't think I noticed any difference until the storms hit this winter and she was very bad. The improvements during the summer were so gradual I didn't realize she did improve.

 

Anyway.........her doctor didn't say anything about long term being negative. She's on the 75 mg dose again. And looks to be for life.

 

So, I'm not sure if he can be weaned. Jade needs it.

And I hadn't noticed dry skin on her.

[macoduck]

Gracie was on Clomicalm for 3 months before we began weaning her off. She had no side effects. Some dogs are on this type of medication long-term for extreme SA.

[greyhndz]

My big boy galgo Dandi has been on clomipramine for about 4 yrs for fear aggresion and anxiety disorder. His dose is 100mg twice daily. He was evaluated and his meds managed by a veterinary behaviorist. (He'd originally been on prozac but it wasn't as effective and caused diarrhea.). He weighs about 80+ lbs. He's tolerated this dose very well, without side effects. His liver and renal function are perfectly normal and I'm not aware of repercussions of long-term use, though I'm sure there's always the potential for this to occur. But checking liver function tests on regular basis should be performed.

 

The one thing to be aware of is that with clomipramine, prozac, amitriptylline or similar medications, there is a risk of developing "seratonin syndrome" if combined with another medication which increases production of seratonin; one such drug is tramadol. Be sure your vet has a full list of all medications your pup is taking.

 

Whether or ot to think about weaning off in the future is something you should discuss with your vet. I don't know if there are studies showing that the positive behavioral changes will remain after clomipramine is discontiued. But if you've tried multiple modalities to control his SA without any success, it might just be that, for your pup's quality of life and for your own peace of mind, Bernie should stay on clomipramine indefinitely. I'm sure your vet or behaviorist will lbe able to guide you.

[greysmom]

I believe I have read that the new behavior takes 6 months of "good" to replace the "bad." That means good behavior with no break outs. You have to change the pathways and habits in the brain and that takes time. Then you can begin to wean them off the meds very slowly. Long term use of anything can be detrimental, so monitoring of liver and kidney values is crucial. As bad as Bernie was, he may need to be on a maintainance dose (which may or may not be the same as what he's taking now) for life. Or not. No one can say for sure.

 

As far as his skin goes, all mine tend to dry out in winter. We added salmon oil to their food several years ago and this has taken care of that problem.

[Moneypenny]

My girl Emmi has been on Clomipramine for about 18 months, she was in another foster home before she came to me, when she arrived to our group she was a complete spook, peed all over herself if you even looked at her. The foster home did a wonderful job bringing her along and I have continued the meds because they truly seem to help her. She is a fabulous, loving girl with her own people and in her own environment, I think the meds help her cope when outside of her comfort zone. She is definately a girl who needs a routine, any variance from it and she isn't sure what to do

 

Based on what I have read periodically on GT, there are a fair number of people who use Clomipramine, I don't know where everyone gets theirs, but I get mine filled at Walgreens and by joining their prescription plan ($35 annually for family plan includes all pets) I save $54 per month on her refills. I can also save on any other meds for any other pet in my home, I can't use it for myself because I have rx insurance, but if the prescription plan saves more than my insurance I can use it instead of my insurance. Your mileage may vary ..........

[KF_in_Georgia]

Jacey was on Clomipramine for nearly three months. The vet said that if she needed to be on longer than 3 months, we'd need to do liver tests. If she'd needed to stay on the Clomipramine, I don't know if we'd have needed tests every three months, or just after the initial three, then less often thereafter.

 

Jacey's a small girl (she was 55 pounds when she started on the meds), and she was on "two or three 50mg capsules daily." That's what the vet prescribed, but we got by on just two capsules daily. (She also was taking Valium at the beginning, but the Valium was stopped after about three weeks.) The vet said it would take about two weeks before she built up a full dose of clomipramine in her system. After two months on Clomipramine, I started weening her off really slowly. She got 75 percent of her dose (so three pills over two days) for one week; 50 percent (one pill a day) for two weeks; and 25 percent (one pill every other day) for the last week. My vet had warned that we'd need to taper off slowly at the end, so I figured that tapering off over four weeks would give us a good shot at success...and if there was any sign of a problem during tapering off, I could just go back to the full dose.

 

That was nearly 5 years ago. She had no problem coming off the Clomipramine, and has had no SA issues since. These days, she's not crated when I leave the house. A couple of times, she's had to stay home alone (i.e., without Sam), and she's even been fine then.

 

And we didn't have a dry-skin problem...

[seeh2o]

* Even though I continue to do alone training, how long should I continue to keep him on the 75mg? I guess I'm wondering if any of you tried one month, two months at a 'good' dosage, and then weening off seemed too soon? (It's tricky to know if he's good with being alone after 100x alone training, or whether he's good just because of his medication!)

 

I can't remember what dosage Carl was on, but it was enough to really help him. I do wish I'd left him on it for at least 6 - 8 months for all the new behavior to really really "take". He was weaned off of it at about 5 months. Initially, I also had to use Valium with him as I couldn't get out the door w/out all H*ll breaking loose.