Lwm And Vaccinations

[galgomum]

Tomorrow, two weeks ago, we took Cara and Paquita to the vet for a check up and their vaccinations.

First off, I am not going to go into a discussion about the need for yearly vaccinations.

We take both girls with us every where they go, into the woods, to the beach, to gatherings with other dogs and Paquita goes to a dog training center and events and meets a lot of other dogs.

Add to that the amount of ticks we have here that attach even though we treat them and the fact that they snack on the occasional turd they find or, in Paquita's case, all kinds of dirt, I feel they need it.

Bth boys, who are both over 10 and won't travel won't be vaccinated that often.

 

Anyway, after two weeks Cara has a big, hard lump between her shoulder blades.

It is on the warm side, but she seems to be ok otherwise. I know my son sometimes got these hard big lumps also after vaccinations, but I don't recall them to sit for that long.

Is this normal, or is this long?

She is going back next week, for another Lyme vaccination since this was their first one, but that was given on the back side, so she isn't reacting to that.

And I will certainly ask the vet about it.

But I am just wondering .

[ZoomDoggy]

Could be a hematoma at the injection site, but odd that it didn't show up until two weeks later.

[OwnedBySummer]

I only had the lump thing happen once with a dog (same place) but it wasn't that long lasting. It showed up within a couple of days and hung around for about a week. That particular dog never had that reaction before and never had it again.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I won't comment on the overvaccinating or immune system function.

 

Do you recall whether a vaccine was given in the location of the lump? From your description, it sounds like a common situs for a vaccine, especially when several are given at once. Proximity to the situs could indicate it was associated with the vaccine given there, bur you can have a reaction at one vaccine's situs that is actually a reaction to the vaccine given elsewhere. That's why many good vets and immunologists suggest not giving multiple vaccines at once. If this is a vaccine reaction, it's not the worst, but you'd be in a pickle if you had a reaction that resulted in crisis and couldn't isolate which vaccine caused it.

 

It may very well resolve on it's own shortly, whether vaccine related or not. If it doesn't, you might need to consider further testing.

[racindog]

One of my horses got a good sized lump like you describe at the injection site. Vet said was "just a rxn to the vaccine." Unfortunately it never went away. It never caused the horse any problems but she had that unsightly bump the rest of her life. Surely the lwm's will go away. She is far too beautiful for it not to! Good luck at the vet. Hugs to Cara.

[galgomum]

I am sure this is a reaction to the vaccination, just surprised it shows up now. I'll keep an eye on it.

 

 

 

 

 

I won't comment on the overvaccinating or immune system function.

 

Do you recall whether a vaccine was given in the location of the lump? From your description, it sounds like a common situs for a vaccine, especially when several are given at once. Proximity to the situs could indicate it was associated with the vaccine given there, bur you can have a reaction at one vaccine's situs that is actually a reaction to the vaccine given elsewhere. That's why many good vets and immunologists suggest not giving multiple vaccines at once. If this is a vaccine reaction, it's not the worst, but you'd be in a pickle if you had a reaction that resulted in crisis and couldn't isolate which vaccine caused it.

 

It may very well resolve on it's own shortly, whether vaccine related or not. If it doesn't, you might need to consider further testing.

 

Thank you, reactions like this, assuming right away that I over vaccinate, implying that I am lucky we had nothing worse happening and indirectly that our vet isn't a good one is why I didn't want to get into a discussion.

 

I would like to say a few things to this.

Don't assume anything….

Most of my dogs came from Spain, just like Paquita and Cara.

In general dogs do not get vaccinated there unless they are lucky enough to end up in a good shelter that doesn't destroy them within 2 weeks.

That means that most dogs like Cara, don't get vaccinated the first years of their lives.

So they don't built up a immune system like dogs that get the puppy vaccinations.

 

I have seen too many moms and their puppies die because the owners couldn't be bothered with spending the money. I have seen shelters fighting diseases that could have been prevented by vaccinations.

 

I am aware of the dangers vaccinations can bring, dangers any medication can have, but I also know the other side which is extremely ugly.

And that is why I choose to vaccinate my kid and dogs.

 

And that is all I am going to say about my reasons to vaccinate.

[kudzu]

Had this once with a dog but not at that particular location. Cannot remember if it was an IM or sub-q injection or which vaccine was given at the time. It may have been a reaction to a mild infection but resolved with the vet's suggestion of warm compresses several times a day. No oral antibiotics were prescribed. It was a couple weeks from when initially noticing the lump until the warmth went away & the lump was no longer raised about normal skin level. It took months before the lump was completely gone, though much of that time it was not raised above the surrounding skin.

 

I react in a similar way to tetanus vaccinations. Happens every time. The resulting knot stays visible for many, many weeks. I hate that vaccine but consider it necessary every decade or so when I do something stupid like puncture myself on some piece of icky old metal. Similar thing happened the first, last & only time I gave a horse an injection, done intramuscular. It was an antibiotic shot, not vaccination. Vet said that happens sometimes. I said, "Well, next time it will happen to you not me!" Have never given an IM injection since then. Will actually trailer my horse to the vet for any vaccinations, it freaked me out that bad. (That & old style tube worming swore me off vet school.)

 

Hope this is just a one off thing that resolves quickly.

[NeylasMom]

I am sure this is a reaction to the vaccination, just surprised it shows up now. I'll keep an eye on it.

 

 

 

 

 

I won't comment on the overvaccinating or immune system function.

 

Do you recall whether a vaccine was given in the location of the lump? From your description, it sounds like a common situs for a vaccine, especially when several are given at once. Proximity to the situs could indicate it was associated with the vaccine given there, bur you can have a reaction at one vaccine's situs that is actually a reaction to the vaccine given elsewhere. That's why many good vets and immunologists suggest not giving multiple vaccines at once. If this is a vaccine reaction, it's not the worst, but you'd be in a pickle if you had a reaction that resulted in crisis and couldn't isolate which vaccine caused it.

 

It may very well resolve on it's own shortly, whether vaccine related or not. If it doesn't, you might need to consider further testing.

 

Thank you, reactions like this, assuming right away that I over vaccinate, implying that I am lucky we had nothing worse happening and indirectly that our vet isn't a good one is why I didn't want to get into a discussion.

 

I would like to say a few things to this.

Don't assume anything….

Most of my dogs came from Spain, just like Paquita and Cara.

In general dogs do not get vaccinated there unless they are lucky enough to end up in a good shelter that doesn't destroy them within 2 weeks.

That means that most dogs like Cara, don't get vaccinated the first years of their lives.

So they don't built up a immune system like dogs that get the puppy vaccinations.

 

I have seen too many moms and their puppies die because the owners couldn't be bothered with spending the money. I have seen shelters fighting diseases that could have been prevented by vaccinations.

 

I am aware of the dangers vaccinations can bring, dangers any medication can have, but I also know the other side which is extremely ugly.

And that is why I choose to vaccinate my kid and dogs.

 

And that is all I am going to say about my reasons to vaccinate.

Petra, I didn't read anything in the post above that insinuated that you over vaccinate, that you were lucky nothing worse happened, or that your vet is a bad one. It sounded to me like the poster was just giving you information that might help you with this situation. And I agree with her point. Although not all vets may realize this, or adjust how they give vaccines accordingly, it is known that giving multiple vaccines at once does increase the risk of the dog suffering side effects from the vaccines. I share that information not as any sort of criticism of you or your vet, but only because it may be helpful to know that moving forward, especially if you determine that this is a reaction to the vaccine. You might just decide in the future to get only one at a time. That's assuming that you did do more than one during this visit, but as best as I can tell from your description that's the case here. In the end, it might have nothing to do with her reaction, if that's what it is, but I always think it's better to be informed and make whatever choices you decide accordingly. If I had the link to the study I read, I would give it to you, but unfortunately I no longer have it. You might be able to find it by searching pubmed if you're really curious.

 

 

As far as your original question, I don't think I can add to what others have said except that I would probably call your vet and ask whether it warrants a more immediate visit. If it's warm, that could indicate infection, which I would want to address more immediately.

 

Hopefully it's not a big deal and will resolve on its own. Poor pretty girl doesn't need any lumps or bumps.

[BootsyCollins]

My cat had a reaction exactly like that to his 3 year rabies vaccine (not the booster). It lasted about a week or so and he licked all the hair off it. then it went away.

[Guest d0ggiem0mma]

I don't know of anywhere that gives vaccines directly between the shoulder blades. Normal locations for vaccines are on the outside aspect of the shoulder or on the back leg. (Microchips are usually put between the shoulder blades though.)

 

Did you see them give the vaccine? Did they give it where the lump is now?

 

It's also very unusual for a vaccine reaction to occur 2 weeks after the vaccine. Normally reactions are seen within 48 hours.

 

I really don't think this is vaccine related if it's between the shoulder blades and happened 2 weeks after the vaccine. If it were me, I'd have a vet look at it.

[Batmom]

Zema had a vaccine bump. IIRC it was from the rabies vaccine. They gave it a bit further down than between the shoulder blades, sort of on the side of the shoulder. It appeared the same day she had the vaccine and took @ a year to completely go away. It wasn't very noticeable after @ a week and didn't bother her.

[MaryJane]

My dogs have had the Lyme vaccine last year and one had it so far this year and I don't remember any reaction.

[Guest budsmom]

I think I would call the vet just for peace of mind. My vet is really great about me calling with concerns any time, so usually I do just so I feel better.

 

I also want to just relay what my vet told me about the Lyme vaccine. I live in a major tick area, Lyme is rampant, so when I first got my hounds I had them get the Lyme vaccination. The second year I took them back for their annual vaccinations, my vet asked if I wanted Lyme also, and I asked if he thought it was a good idea. He told me that the Lyme vaccine is only about 60% effective at best, and that really the best defense against Lyme is to use Frontline or some similar product. According to my vet, the Lyme vaccine was just barely effective enough to pass the drug approval process, and that really it's sort of the same situation as a Bordatella vaccination. Becuase of this conversation, I have stopped having my dogs get the Lyme vaccine, but they do get their others each year. My thinking was that if the vaccine isn't really effective, why risk a possible reaction. I have had the same conversation with my vet about the dental vaccine, also, so my dogs don't get that either.

 

Not trying to get into the pro/anti vaccination debate, just wanted to share my experiences if they're helpful. I also understand why you feel the way you do, Distemper is pretty much non existent in my area - my vet says he hasn't seen a case in 30 years - but I read about how dogs (usually in the South) routinely die from it because they don't get vaccinated for it. Like every other health care decision, whether for a human or animal, it's a personal thing that only the individual involved can make based on their situation.

[galgomum]

The bump is at the vaccine location, it is not exactly between the shoulder blades but behind it.

I am surprised by the size of it, it is 2 inches in diameter. I'll give the vet a call tomorrow.

 

Thanks everyone for the replies.

 

Also thanks for the info on Lyme, it is one that I wasn't aware of since we don't know it in the Netherlands. And yes, the vet told me to keep using the Frontline.

And yes, you are right, it is a personal choice based on every ones own experience.

I will look into the Lyme one, but will likely go on giving it to at least Paquita since she reacts really strong to tick bytes. The ticks here are much bigger than we are used to, I hope she won't react even stronger.

[Guest Swifthounds]

The second year I took them back for their annual vaccinations, my vet asked if I wanted Lyme also, and I asked if he thought it was a good idea. He told me that the Lyme vaccine is only about 60% effective at best, and that really the best defense against Lyme is to use Frontline or some similar product. According to my vet, the Lyme vaccine was just barely effective enough to pass the drug approval process, and that really it's sort of the same situation as a Bordatella vaccination.

 

Some of the literature says it's 65% effective, however, in addition to being marginally effective it has the potential to induce an immune condition with some of the same symptoms as Lyme (which initially sparked some debate over whether the vaccine causes Lyme, which it does not), but which is neither curable, nor affected by administration of antibiotics.

 

To the OP, if the lump is near the vaccine site, you and/or the vet need to report it to the manufacturer.

[kudzu]

To the OP, if the lump is near the vaccine site, you and/or the vet need to report it to the manufacturer.

Very good point!

[galgomum]

Today we had a vet appointment and we talked about her lump.

The vet was pretty sure it is a reaction to the distemper vaccination, but a very local reaction without any other problems so she wasn't worried.

 

What I really liked is that she suggested to do titers with her from now on and also with both boys since they are seniors.

I didn't have to ask myself.

 

Also a note was made to take the Monsters temperature at the backside, since the diva screamed when they tried her ear.