Osteosarcoma Diagnosis

[Guest juliagulia630]

I can't believe I am the one writing one of these messages, as I have read hundreds since I joined this group. After reading each one I would give James a big hug and tell him I loved him. I suggest you all do the same.

 

James has been limping for 3 days now. Started out as a little limp and now today he was refusing to put pressure on it. Walks would make it better and he was acting his normal crazy self. He is eating great and playing with his

stuffies. I brought him into the vet since it was getting worse. He yelped during his knee exam which prompted my vet to get xrays. One of the xrays showed a "cloudy area" over the area of bone James cried. It was so small that

he wasn't sure since he normally sees a larger area affected when osteo is in question. He sent it to a radiologist who refused to call it either way. She called it bone disease but was leaning toward the osteo diagnosis. She said that dogs typically don't show symptoms until the cancer is much larger. Either it is very early osteo or it is due to infection. He has no wounds there, no swelling, no reddness, no fever. In order to get a real diagnosis our options

are to get a biopsy now or wait 2 weeks and re-image the site again to see if it evolved.

 

Is there anything else not as invasive as a biosy that we could do to diagnose this and proceed either way?!

 

I forgot to add that James is almost 9 years old, a best friend to my 18 month daughter and the love

on both my husband's and my life. Obviously we are devastated...

[Wonder]

Check with OSU and Dr Couto

 

 

I just went though this and it sucked

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

There are 2 kinds of biopsies. One is a fine needle aspiration (FNA) and the other is a core biopsy. The FNA is minimally invasive but is inconclusive if negative. The core biopsy type is very painful. My Alex had one and I'll never do that to a dog again. He was in so much pain afterwards. I would send the xrays to OSU for an additional read.

[tbhounds]

Please foward the radiographs to Ohio state --Dr Couto and team will be able to evaluate the films. Sadly, if it looks like a duck.....

[BootsyCollins]

The Ohio State team recommends strongly against traditional biopsies to diagnose osteo. Not only is the biopsy painful, it can further weaken the bone, leading to a break. When we went through this, Dr. Couto's team recommended that if we wanted a firm diagnosis, we should have a fine needle aspiration done, but they also confirmed that the x-rays looked like osteo to them. We took their expert opinions and accepted that as fact, but that isn't enough for everyone.

 

Either way, I'd for sure contact them and have your vet send copies of the x-rays: couto.1@osu.edu

 

Good luck. I'm very sorry to hear this news.

[greysmom]

Many dogs don't even need sedation for a fine needle aspiration biopsy. Please contact the OSU medical staff through their submission page on the website and ask them to read the x-rays. They will also look at the cytology slides of any biopsy to confirm or verify any diagnosis. A blood test can help determine if it's an infection or not.

 

Unfortunately, having just gone through this myself, it's more than likely osteo. Dude's x-rays and FNA were also non-conclusive, but given his history and age, we were told that cancer was really more likely than anything else. We didn't know for sure until the report came back on the biopsy from his amputated leg.

 

I'm so sorry for you and your family. Please come and vist the Osteo Thread for more info and support.

[RedFawnMom]

I'm very sorry you're going through this. We also are in the midst of dealing with osteo. My girl, Lucy, is only four and underwent amp two weeks ago and started chemo last Friday. She's doing great, though.

 

I will say that the "wait two weeks and repeat X-rays" approach won't rule out osteo. Lucy's lesion didn't change size at all in 5 weeks, but sure enough, it was osteo. She also did not have any swelling or redness until literally two days before the surgery (it was almost 8 weeks between when we first saw the lesion on X-ray and when she had the amp). Her bloodwork was normal. She limped just a couple of times, for a couple of minutes each time, and seemed perfectly fine the rest of the time. The radiologist who reviewed the X-rays was pretty sure it was an infection, and even OSU was a little on the fence when I sent them the X-rays. Her X-ray did not show the typical "moth eaten" pattern and actually looked more cystic. OSU suggested an FNA, which we did, and it showed some cancerous cells but couldn't confirm the type of sarcoma. We opted for the amp and the final biopsy report said it was definitely osteo.

 

I'm not trying to discourage you, just sharing that the presentation was a little atypical for us, so we waited a long time before getting a diagnosis and starting treatment, and I wish we hadn't. My advice would be to send the X-rays to OSU and go from there. They'll probably recommend an FNA and can advise your vet on how to do it if needed (they recommend doing it with ultrasound guidance). If you have your vet call their referral line directly, you'll probably get a faster response.

 

A good question to ask yourself at this point is what you'd do if it IS osteo. Would you amputate and/or do chemo? Or would you choose palliative care? If amp/chemo is out of the question, you might not want to do the FNA, but it's all a personal choice. (For what it's worth, I was totally against amp until faced with the decision for MY dog. But I'm glad we did it.)

 

Hugs to you and your boy. I know how incredibly hard this is, especially the part where you don't know what it is. PM me if I can help. There are lots of people who have been in your shoes here who can lend support.

 

ETA: If your pup is a candidate for amp and chemo and you choose that route, OSU will provide the chemo drugs at no cost to you.

 

ETA: I just noticed you only have one post so you can't PM. Feel free to Email me at Lucythegreyhound@gmail.com if I can help (or if you just need some moral support).

Edited February 23, 2011 by RedFawnMom

[Charlies_Dad]

First off, sorry you are going through this. Based on the description of the x-ray, it sounds very similar to our Charlie and James's limping is spot on to what happened to our boy. His leg was amputated the day after his first limp. Our orthopedic surgeon, two other vets and a radiologist were all suspecting Osteo but couldn't be 100% sure. The FNA was an option however this takes some time and as Chris stated, not always conclusive (actually many are not). I agree with others, try to contact Dr. Coutu at OSU for a second/third opinion as they see so many Greys, they will be able to give you a diagnosis. Their info is as follows if you do not have it.

 

 

The email or phone consult is free, however a few people have been told they must sign up for the website ($50) and submit the request that way. Dr. Couto tells me that this is not true. However, if you are a member of their website, please submit your request that way because it will automate things and make record keeping for them easier. Certain chemo drugs are free; you would need to pay to have them administered.

 

Greyhound Health and Wellness Program

Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine

601 Vernon Tharp Street

Columbus, Ohio 43210

Phone: (614) 247-6757 or (614) 247-8490

Email: greyosu@osu.edu

Website: http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/GHWP.htm (registration and fee now required to get full access to this site)

 

This email goes to the team. If Dr. Couto is traveling, you may get a quicker answer from one of his team members. Drs. Marin and Zaldivar typically respond to greyhound owners. The consult is free but if you can afford to support the program please do so. You can sign up for full access to the website ($99 per calendar year) or donate through the giving page on the website. If you decide to donate, you can double your money by giving through the Greyhound Project. They will match the funds that you donate. Just go to this website and scroll down to the appropriate donation button: http://www.adopt-a-g...g/donate.shtml.

 

Dr. Couto's direct email is: couto.1@osu.edu. His phone number is also 614-247-6757. If he is in town, he typically returns emails in the early hours of the morning.

 

You should know that (in my humble opinion) they need more staff. Unfortunately finances do not permit it at this time. They do 20 to 30 greyhound consults a day along with all of their "in canine" patients. Depending on their workload there may be a wait for the consultation. If you are contacting them on an emergency basis, please let them know.

 

If you want to make an appointment to be seen in person/canine, you can call the main number to set up a date/time. The main number for the veterinary hospital is 614-292-3551.

 

If you decide to visit OSU please contact me. I may be able to put you up in a local home, provide moral support, or just help with logistics: Finewhipador-drool@yahoo.com

[RedFawnMom]

To Kyle's post, I just wanted to add the contact info for the referral coordinator at OSU; this is the person your vet should contact:

 

Stephanie Yochem, Referral Coordinator

Ph: (614) 292-0950

Fx: (614) 292-1454

 

Based on my experience, you'll get a much quicker response if your vet calls that number.

 

https://greyhound.osu.edu/consultationservice/

[Guest Smiley]

We had a similiar issue with Peanut in that her x-rays were coming back clean, but she was still limping and painful. We finally made the trip down to OSU and had the radiologist read it there. He confirmed osteo. If it were me, I would send that set of x-rays to Dr. Couto and plan to repeat the films in a few weeks and send those down too. If you can get digital copies from your vet, that will make it easy to email them to Dr. Couto. He typically responds very quickly and it's free. I'm so sorry you are going through this, having done it twice last year, I know how devastating it is. Many, many hugs and please keep us posted.

[Burpdog]

Where are you located and what is his race name?

[Guest juliagulia630]

Where are you located and what is his race name?

 

Sa Bar James

We are in Geauga County

[Guest juliagulia630]

OSU now has all emails to Dr Cuoto go through their website. I am having my vet contact him tomorrow. I hate that time is ticking on by and our window of opportunity is closing. Should I be making an appointment to be seen down there? It is only about 2 hours from us!

[Guest Smiley]

Are you in Geauga county, Ohio? We are in Chardon. I felt better after going down to actually see Dr. Couto b/c I knew that surgery or not, he could give me the best possible advice and meds to keep our fur kids comfortable while we me our decisions.

[tbhounds]

What I would give to be only 2 hours from OSU-- personally, I would already have my pup in the car-- I'm from NJ - it's an 8 hour drive from here-- I have made the trip many times. I know of other GT members that have driven much, much farther to receive Dr Couto and Ohio States care. Sorry this is happening to your hound--Keep us posted.

[GeorgeofNE]

Unfortunately, it probably won't make a bit of difference (in terms of ultimate outcome) if you find out today, or in two weeks.

 

I'd do as everyone else has suggested, but I'd also go back for a second set of films.

 

Here's hoping it's NOT the dread O.

[NeylasMom]

I would probably hold off on going to OSU until you hear back from them re: your x-rays.

 

Have you started to think at all about what option you might choose? If you decide on amputation, I would definitely encourage you to go to OSU to have it done there given how close you are. If you choose palliative care, you can probably manage that through your own vet or a local oncologist, or under OSU's advisement. Keep in mind that there are some newer pain management options outside of actual medication that can give some good longer term pain relief, namely IV pamidronate and palliative radiation. They both have minimal risks of side effects, but the thing to be careful about there is that if the damage to the bone is at extensive and your pup is at risk of a fracture, it may not be the best idea to do a treatment like that unless your prepared for it (b/c the pup becomes more active) and are prepared to either amputate or let your pup go if the fracture does occur.

 

Again, I'm really sorry you're dealing with this. Feel free to read through the osteo thread in this forum - the first post has a lot of good links/resources.

 

Hang in there.

Edited February 24, 2011 by NeylasMom

[Guest juliagulia630]

My vet and I have not been able to get through to OSU. He tried the referral line and I tried both office numbers. We both left messages on the voicemail. Any other ideas?

[tbhounds]

My vet and I have not been able to get through to OSU. He tried the referral line and I tried both office numbers. We both left messages on the voicemail. Any other ideas?

They are sooooo busy- this is why I suggested you head over there. Once you arrive you will receive all the care you need-- (speaking from experience). Keep in mind that they see scheduled appointments Monday-Friday but, are open 24/7 for emergencys.