Help, Please...

[Guest NeroAmber]

This is about my girl Amber the lurcher, I know she isn't a grey, but I really need some help here. I'm planning on calling the rescue group for help later, too, but everyone here has so much eperience that I'm hoping someone will be able to help, or even just reassure me. Bear with me, there's a few things...

When we got Amber in April, she was a happy hound, mostly- very rambunctious and very food-obsessed. Things have been going well, we've all bonded well, she's put on weight, loves playing- but recently there's been a change. She started cowering away from my partners dad and his brother- shied away from the vet tech- then against my partners mother. She never did this before- but she crabwalks away from them on the end of the lead as if they're about to beat her. This is so confusing as she wasn't a nervous dog when we got her, although she's had an awful past.

It came to a head today, she jumped on the bed when DH left as usual, and I went to shift her around, as usual, because she's fallen off the bed whilst rolling over before, so I flip her round so she can't. Today she yelped like I'd stuck her with something, and then kept whining and being scared- I wasn't touching her, I wasn't angry at her, but she was acting like I'd just beaten her, rolled half onto her back and watching my every move with white rimmed eyes.

In the middle of the night, before this, I'd sat up to get some water, I didn't startle her awake, but she must have woken up anyway, and My sillouhette must have scared her because although I was over a metre or two away from her- she yelped, shot up, and fled to the door, then stood frozen until I managed to pull her back, after which she slunked back to bed with her tail firmly tucked under- she was terrified of me...

But the worst was this morning, after she yelped and got off the bed, I thought 'ok, distract her from her nerves' which is what the rescue group said to do when I told them about her nervousness and actions around DH's family- out come the treats. She takes them happily, and we all go back to bed- She sleeps right next to my side of the bed and I uaully stroke her while lying down, she saw me going to stroke her, so it wasn't sleep aggression or a startle to her, she let me touch her with seemingly no worries, then I told her she was a good girl, went to stroke her again and she yelped, jumped, and bit me.

I'm so worried, and so upset, I don't know what's started this, I don't know why she's acting like this- why is she so scared of me? What could I have done? Could she be remembering her past? She was badly beaten and starved before she was rescued. I've muzzled her for now as she's so unpredictable, and I'm trying very hard to keep my emotions in check so as not to make it worse or scare her, but I'm so so upset, I couldn't help crying. Nero, my greyhound boy is fine, in all other aspects, she's fine, but suddenly she's acting like this... We do have a new lodger, moved in yesterday, but her behaviour has been deteriorating for a few weeks, so I dont think it's that- she is cautious of him, though she liked him at first- but this mornings problems took place in our room, just me and the hounds alone.

I'm sorry that this post is so long and muddled- please, any help, or insight will help. I'm thinking of taking her to the vet- she hasn't got any injuries that might have spooked her, but might the vet have a clue as to where her heads at? Also I was gong to use bachs rescue remedy in her water, and a drop of lavender on a scarf around her neck... I know there are other things available, too, which I'll look into, but why now? what triggered this? How can I help my girl?

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Is there any chance she has some pain somewhere? I would get her thoroughly checked over by your vet before putting this down to a behavioural issue, especially if this is happening when you touch her. Maybe she has an old injury somewhere from her previous situation that's flaring up, maybe in her back or neck? You can't always tell just from looking, and different dogs react in different ways to pain.

 

The reason I say this is because 5 weeks after we brought Kelly home, he started growling at me and trying to shy away from me, AND yelping when I touched him, especially on his flanks and belly. Up to that point he'd been the most easygoing, loving hound - I was horrified, thinking we were going down the road of behavioural problems or anxiety. Turned out he was really sick with a bad worm infestation (previous owner had never wormed him) and was feeling awful - he's still having problems 6 months down the line and is now on loads of meds for IBD caused by the parasites.

 

I hope you can get to the bottom of this - good luck!

[Guest NeroAmber]

Thank you for the heads up- I think a trip to the vets is in order then, definitely. shes a lot calmer now, so I'll gently check her over myself as well.

[Guest IrskasMom]

I really have no Idea and Advice what could couse this Behavior.Her past has probably something to do with it.Lots of gentle Hugs and Prayers , that this will pass .

[Guest Samantha]

Yup the first thing I would do, is get a full vet check done, just incase this is not behavioral. The yelping sounds asthough she could be in pain, i would look for signs she is pain when not being touched too...panting..pacing etc.

 

Good luck xx

[Guest NeroAmber]

Thanks for the kind thoughts . I have just checked Amber over thoroughly, head to toe, flexing her limbs, checking her spine and tummy as well- no reaction apart from tickly toes. I guess some dogs hide pain better than others, but part of me was hoping there might be something obvious that the vet can put right quickly. Ah well- I'll take her within the week. At least she's calmer now, bless her.

[silverfish]

Yep, take her to the vet and get her checked over. It's likely that you hurt her somehow by accident the first time, and now she's wary because of her past, but you need to make sure she doesn't have a medical problem.

 

I will just say that if I accidentally hurt Sid (like stepping on a paw when he's crept up to lie right behind me in the kitchen) he'll roll his eyes so the whites show and start to tremble, and it lasts for several minutes. He'll look most reproachful, too. But he recovers quickly, and there are no repercussions. Amber may just be one of those dogs who do that, but because she was abused (I'm assuming you know that for certain) her reaction is more extreme. If this is the case, you probably need the advice of a qualified dog behaviourist. Not a trainer, but a behaviourist. They'll need to come and observe her to give you proper advice, tailored for her and for your situation. Since she's now progressed to biting, it's not really something you can sort out with online help from people who haven't seen her in action. JMHO.

 

Good luck!

 

Edited for grammar.

Edited July 5, 2010 by silverfish

[Fiona3]

The advice you have gotten is excellent. A complete vet checkup would be in order. We had a pup that had an previous leg injury that kept flaring up. He was stepped on by accident once and then always became wary anticipating the hurt before it could happen. We also have a bounced grey female who is a "flincher". Even those times she sees us reach out to rub her or softly stroke her fur, she flinches slightly. It's an automatic reaction on her part, though she has been treated gently and calmly in our house.

 

When you get the vet checkup, perhaps they can recommend something to give her to calm her nerves a bit until she has settled into your home. Sometimes is takes a while to build that sense of security.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Guest NeroAmber]

Cheers, I still thought it was worth an ask on here, and it has been helpful, but I do have a number to call now for a behaviourist . I don't see how I hurt her this morning though, as I literally barely touched her before she yelped- I didn't get a chance to move her at all like I usually do, or I'd agree that there was a chance I did hurt her somehow. As for her past- unfortunately we are certain, she was a rescue from Ireland, from travellers, She's got half a tail, scars all over her and a bust up wonky, bumpy feeling chest with multiple rib break repairs, someone probably booted her pretty damn hard to do that kind of damage. Apparently when she came off the boat she was cowered right at the back of a cage and took quite a while to come round. Sadly, her kind of story just isn't rare enough

[Guest NeroAmber]

Ok, managed to get a vets appointment for later today. I'm a lot calmer now, and so is Amber. Fingers crossed that it's something we can fix. Thanks everyone for the kind thoughts and help.

[DaisyDoodle]

Given the injuries this poor dog has experienced, I would assume she is in pain and would ask the vet for an NSAID or other pain reliever. I think Silverfish is on target, it's probably a combination of pain mixed with history to make the dog really skiddish.

[silverfish]

As for her past- unfortunately we are certain, she was a rescue from Ireland, from travellers, She's got half a tail, scars all over her and a bust up wonky, bumpy feeling chest with multiple rib break repairs, someone probably booted her pretty damn hard to do that kind of damage. Apparently when she came off the boat she was cowered right at the back of a cage and took quite a while to come round. Sadly, her kind of story just isn't rare enough

 

 

Oh, poor Amber.

 

Our first greyhound, Jim, came from Travellers, too. He was found left behind when they moved on from a camp. He was half bald from mange, had a piece missing from his tongue and broken teeth, his face felt bumpy and battered under the skin, (I'm guessing someone was in the habit of throwing stones or half a brick at him), and he had a horrible lumpy scar that ran most of the way down one hind leg, which the vet thought had been stitched internally with fishing line. You could feel the knots under his skin, but it didn't bother him so we left well alone. He was a very nervous dog (did a lot of anxiety peeing) and yet he turned into the BEST dog we've ever had. So quick and eager to learn and please us, and so loving, in his way. He never demanded affection, but he lapped it up when it was offered. And we could let him off lead anywhere and know he'd behave impeccably with other animals of all kinds - except wild rabbits, hares and birds, which he did go after.

 

Hopefully, Amber will turn into a smashing companion just like him!

 

Whereabouts are you? I'm East Midlands.

[dante2zoe]

I don't have any experience that is point-on in your situation, but we have a dog that has documented neglect and all kinds of injuries that point to, at the very least, rough treatment, but the authorities hesitated to label abuse. Anyway, he is okay with people (how odd, actually) but is wary of other dogs, even those in his pack. He is very territorial of me and has the mind set that the best defense is a good offense. He will go after the other dogs with abandon and always end up on the short end (he is half their size). Anyway, we used generic prozac for a couple years to take the edge off and help with other issues (all other holistic methods failed) and learned to recognize his triggers and situations that would set him off. While it is not a perfect solution, we manage to live in a calm household 99.99% of the time. The other dogs also seem to understand his quirks and try to avoid trouble unless he is determined. Oh, it should be noted that he is over 13 and his senses are also beginning to fail, as is his little mind, so there are some organic issues, as well.

 

I hope that things go well for you and please keep us posted! I am sure that there is a very loving dog trying to emerge, but something is blocking her way.

[Guest Ely]

Hi Tam - it's Charlotte from KGR we adopted Ely. You've gotten some good advice here and the vet check is really important as most registered behaviorists won't see you without a vet check and a referral first.

 

You've probably seen me post on KGR about the fear issues we've been having with Ely although we've been lucky that it hasn't manifested into fear aggression (just refusal and shutting down) and the thing I would most stress is that you need to make sure you DO NOT use a behaviorist that recommends aversive techniques! If we did this with Ely he would just shut down and I should imagine you'll get a similar situation with Amber or worse, an escalation of the behavior.

I completely sympathize about the shock of a sudden change but having done some research this might almost be a positive thing from what Ive read it seems that abused dogs often completely shut out things that are stressing them so they can function and as they become more secure the problems can come rushing back.

 

We have a behaviorist coming to help us with Ely soon and until then were trying to remove all the things that trigger his fears as it can quite often take a long time for their adrenaline levels to drop and for them to relax again (this is quite difficult as he is afraid of outside but has to go out to pee/poop). He behaves similarly to Amber in that well have an extreme reaction refusing to go out the front door/stauing and shaking and then an hour or so later will be running round the flat like a loon with his soft toys! If you can figure out if youre doing anything differently or is different about the environment (even perhaps the clothes youre wearing/noises that are in the environment/smells) and try to isolate her from them that should help in the short term.

Ive included some links here which Ive found helpful for dealing with Ely and would strongly recommend that you find a registered and accredited behaviorist or one that you have a personal recommendation for that you know works well with rescue dogs and greyhounds/lurchers (we were lucky to find one who was recommended by several different rescue groups in London and owns sighthounds!) Shes based in Battersea though so probably too far for you.

 

Hope this is helpful and hopefully reading through the Dog Pages forum (for rescues and rescue dogs Lisa from Greyhound Gap posts on there and is really, really great!) will help. Its been a great help for me as there are several people on there who have fearful dogs and they give great advice, there are also several behaviorists that post on there and will give you advice for free.

Also the archives here are good as people will have been through much the same as you Ive spent hours here and at Dog Pages just trawling through. Its comforting in a weird way to know its not just you!

 

Ill pm this to you on KGR as well to make sure it catches you.

http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/index.php?showforum=4

http://www.ukrcb.co.uk/

http://www.apbc.org.uk/

http://www.canis.no/rugaas/onearticle.php?artid=1 (this is all about sending calming signals to your dog and learning to speak their language a bit very helpful when Ely panics although you do look a bit silly trying to lick your own nose!)

Also the book the Cautious Canine (cant remember who its by at work atm but Ill have a look when I get home has helped as it really helps you think about setting out an action plan to control the triggers once youve identified them took us ages to figure out most of Elys but its working now)

Edited July 5, 2010 by Ely

[GeorgeofNE]

Any dog that experienced a big personality change like that absent any triggering event would be at the vet for a work up if it were my dog.

 

Could be lots of things from a vision problem to pain.

 

Good luck and don't despair!

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

My first thought before I even read 1/2 the post was, "This dog is in pain"

 

Hope you figure out what is wrong, and thanks for being so patient with her. You're a good Greyhound parent

[Batmom]

Make sure the vet checks vision, hearing, ears, and teeth/mouth as well as other bodily things. If you can't find a physical problem, it may be just that over the time you've had her -- how long has that been? -- the people have become more normal in their treatment of her, in ways that may be frightening to her. The behaviorist should be able to diagnose/help with anything like that. For most of her life with me, a person could make my angel Zema shriek and cower just by looking at her the "wrong" way, by approaching as if to grab her around the midsection, etc. With time, training, and patience, she got to the point of being a near-normal dog in most situations, so there is hope. Best luck with your sweet pup. And pardon my lack of paragraphs, browser not cooperating this morning.

[Guest NeroAmber]

Thank you again to everyone, I actually feel a bit tear-y with gratitude here- this is why this site is so important, for support as well as advice.

 

I've spoken to the rescue group now, and to the vet, and both agree, as do most people here, that she must be in some sort of pain- hopefully something we can find and fix easily- but we now at least have a plan for all eventualities whether physical or psychological.

 

Hearing from people who are going through a similar thing, or have done in the past is so reassuring, I must remember them, and remind myself that Amber will come round. It's just so hard watching her go through it. Thank you so much everyone, I really mean it. Right now Ambers snuggled next to me, asleep- hopefully we'll have more of this and less of the scaryness for her in future.

[Guest SusanP]

Sending good thoughts to sweet Amber and to you. I'll be anxious to hear how things unfold and how she does.

 

PS: Just checking to be sure--but is there any chance at all your partner's dad and/or brother might have been too rough with her or something to set her off again? I had to ask, since the problem seemed to affect her relationship with them first.

Edited July 5, 2010 by SusanP

[Guest Longdog]

Plenty of good advice here for you. I hope you can get to the bottom of it - nothing worse than not knowing. I know my old Cush used to wince and yelp in his sleep sometimes and although we knew had had a bit of arthritis in his spine I think it was a trapped nerve so more neuro than physical which is harder to pinpoint. Fingers crossed you get some good help and things return to normal, good luck.

[Guest NeroAmber]

Just an update-

We just got back from the vets, and she couldn't find anything obvious causing Amber pain, but said that the anxiety could be masking any pain. She gave us Zylkene, and Amber has already had her first dose but it hasn't kicked in yet. I was so proud of Amby at the vets, she was clearly terrified, but didn't whine, growl or snap. If the pills relax her but she still flinches, the vet said she would take a urine sample to test for fungus or infection to rule out bladder problems/pain.

[Guest PhillyPups]

First and foremost thank you for bringing Amber into your home and giving her the loving chance she so deserves. Somehow I think half-tailed lurchers with scars and obvious broken ribs are not in high demand in any animal adopotion world. I shudder to think of what her life was like before. Bless you.

 

I would have her checked with the vet as it sounds like her reaction to you is pain based.

 

I have one here that came from a not so nice past. Moe is so full of love and just wanting to feel safe enough to let it all out. She comes so close until an event as simple as swatting a fly can set her back and then she progresses a bit again.

 

I also had a previous dog, a chesapeake, who came from an abusive situation. The man that had her prior to me always wore a baseball cap. She loved my Dad, but if he came in with a hat on she would shudder, shake, and pee herself out of fear. As soon as he took the hat off she was fine. She never got over that fear. Just wondering if the triggers are as simple as an article of clothing with the other folks.

 

Good luck and again, thank you for loving Amber just as she is, perfect.

[greysmom]

Please make sure your vet does blood work for thyroid imbalance. I'm not sure how being a lurcher affects the values, but many fear- and anxiety-based reactions can be due to low thyroid.

 

What's the generic name of the drug the vet prescribed??? Depending on what it is and how it works, it may take a week or more to have an effect. Hopefully you got something more fast-acting.

 

A second for the aove advce to use only positive training techniques. Any behaviorist you talk to should understand that, and as some still use more correction than positive reinforcement, make sure you get one that doesn't.

 

Good luck and please keep us posted!

Edited July 5, 2010 by greysmom

[silverfish]

Sounds like you have a good vet there! Let us know how things go - good luck with the Zylkene!

 

One word about that; Renie was prescribed it for firework anxiety and it didn't do a thing for her. Apparently it's made from milk, and is a fairly mild, 'natural' remedy. If it doesn't work, don't assume that no anxiety drugs will work, try asking for something stronger.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Bumping this to see how Amber is...?